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Username Post: Things to to do and not to do with Holley HP and Dominator EFI        (Topic#242097)
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
05-16-10 10:14 AM - Post#1915749    

After sales have started with the new Holley EFI, and seeing most people don't read instructions, thought I'd commment on some mistakes I'm seeing repeated.

1) Mounting of hall effect sensor for 60-2 trigge wheel. Although the "head" of the sensor is large, the actual sensing portion is small. A hall effect sensor must be lined up with the "teeth" of the trigger wheel to properly read. If the axial alignment or senosr air gap is too much, you will not get a good reading, or the reading will degrade at higher RPM. So make sure the center of the sensor is axially aligned withing about +/-.050" at WORST and get the air gap around .030".

2) ECU main power and ground. The instructions clearly show power and ground going directly to the battery for ECU main power. Do this. DO NOT run power or ground to a "stud" that also supplies power or ground to noisy/dirty things like MSD systems, electic fans, etc. Always isolate dirty and clean powered components.

Don't be sloppy with EFI installs. It will cause you problems.

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 




hotrod4papa 
Member
Posts: 91

Reg: 04-12-05
05-17-10 07:22 AM - Post#1916129    
    In response to Doug_F

Doug. Thanks for posting. Good info.



 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
05-19-10 06:55 PM - Post#1917602    
    In response to hotrod4papa

More items:
There is a "dwell time" for the "points output" when triggering the white wire on an MSD box. The initial instructions said to use a time of 1 msec. That was fine for all our testing. It seems a value of 1.5-2 is better in some cases.

Just got back from tuning an 845 HP pump gas 540 for someone that is well know on the boards. He's using the Domonator ECU and DIS. Ran great.

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
05-20-10 03:08 AM - Post#1917723    
    In response to Doug_F

  • Doug_F Said:
There is a "dwell time" for the "points output" when triggering the white wire on an MSD box. The initial instructions said to use a time of 1 mSec. That was fine for all our testing. It seems a value of 1.5-2 is better in some cases.


The points output dwell time is still a ground trigger for a CD box, correct? I always thought the recommended 1 mSec was too "quick", so I've been using 5 mSec. Is there such thing as too much (relatively speaking)?

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
Steve P 
Contributor
Posts: 128

Reg: 07-13-08
05-20-10 10:24 AM - Post#1917894    
    In response to Danny Cabral

Yes Danny

If you have to much the coils can get to hot and kill them very quickly,also at high revs they dont have enough time to recharge for the next spark especially on a V12.



 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
05-20-10 11:03 AM - Post#1917909    
    In response to Steve P

  • Steve P Said:
Yes Danny, If you have too much the coils can get to hot and kill them very quickly, also at high revs they don't have enough time to recharge for the next spark especially on a V12.


Steve P, this is just a ground trigger and has nothing to do with coil dwell which is controlled by the CD ignition box.

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
mike beck 
Contributor
Posts: 218

Reg: 05-20-10
05-20-10 06:36 PM - Post#1918115    
    In response to Danny Cabral

I have been doing testing for Doug and found the dwell time issue. 1mSec was not enough for a MSD 7520, but 1.5 seemed ok. 2mS and higher was fine. Will post my results after the chassis dyno on Saturday. Will try 1.5mS as a starting point.

If you try to use too high of a value you will run into problems at high rpm. Doug can probably let you know what the max time can be. For a low-rpm engine it won't matter. I know that 10mS is the max time at 6000 rpm (if I remember correctly!)

If the dwell time is too high the signal will start to overlap with the next one and you will have a static condition. Same thing happens with injectors that don't flow enough fuel.



 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
05-24-10 10:30 AM - Post#1919826    
    In response to mike beck

The firmware will put a "gap" between triggers, so if programmed to go static, it will retrigger, but this gap is in usec, so I wouldn't want to depend on it as a rule.

Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
69CHVL 
Member
Posts: 205
69CHVL
Loc: PHILA, PA
Reg: 08-07-05
08-01-10 03:32 AM - Post#1953743    
    In response to Doug_F

Doug can you give a couple of do's/don't as far as protecting the ECU and other components.

Like welding (obviously), jump start protocol, battery charging. I also have a remote start for bumping the motor over to set lash...any concerns?

Anything else?

VINCE G
69 CHEVELLE SS 502
HOLLEY MPFI
TKO 600/3.90
*1.75/7.41/97.86/11.41/124.51*


 
Doug_F 
Holley Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4720
Doug_F
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Reg: 08-20-01
08-03-10 04:19 PM - Post#1955244    
    In response to 69CHVL

The thing with that stuff is soemthing major may not cause a problem and something "basic" can. there are too many variables, so I'd always try to do "best practice" when possible.

Welding - take ECU out of car. (I've welded bungs, etc and haven't, but you should.)

Battery charging - Some chargers are junk and some are good. I"ve never seen a "10A" charge cause problems, but I'd refrain from the "start" settings if possible.

Remote starter should be no problem.

The main thing is preventative wiring. GOing to the battery with the ECU power/ground as told helps a lot of problems.

I've jumped cars several times with no problems battery to battery.



Doug
1972 Nova
6.0L LSx, 80mm BorgWarner, 4L80E
9.34@147


 
5Larry7 
"14th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1935
5Larry7
Loc: Dallas, TX
Reg: 05-17-04
09-17-10 01:42 PM - Post#1977417    
    In response to Doug_F

I am in the process of running the wires and hooking things up for my Holley HP EFI TBI. My battery is in the trunk. I have run the positive cable to a Ford style solenoid mounted on the frame near the starter for dsitrubution to the rest of the car. I also ran a ground cable from the battery that is connected to the engine. Can I use these connect points for the ECU or is it better to run those wires to the back of the car to the battery connections? Thanks

'57 210, 327 cid, Holley MPFI, 700R4, A/C & more.
'51 Studebaker Starlite coupe, 350, TH400, GV OD.
'96 Replica of a 1950's Teardrop Trailer.


 
mike beck 
Contributor
Posts: 218

Reg: 05-20-10
09-17-10 02:57 PM - Post#1977441    
    In response to 5Larry7

Run the two heavy power wires to the battery, it's your best-bet.



 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
06-25-11 04:41 AM - Post#2107487    
    In response to mike beck

Watch these Holley EFI instructional videos and you shouldn't have any problem:
http://www.holleyinjection.com/instructional-video...

Interesting Holley EFI Tuning Video (DVD):
http://www.stevemorrisengines.com/steve-morris-eng...

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
BBtech 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 32

Loc: Orland Park Ill.
Reg: 01-21-12
01-25-12 05:46 PM - Post#2183443    
    In response to Doug_F

Doug, I'll never be bored reading your insightful EFI discussion. Please feel free to lay it on and keep it coming. There is no limit to the knowledge that EFI can consume and all that you bring to the forum is greatly appreciated. There is such an EFI variety today and tuning each has it's own unique set of variables. Together we learn.



 




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