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Username Post: C950 & LC-1        (Topic#184870)
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
03-17-08 12:21 PM - Post#1390185    

I've had this innovate LC1 sitting around for a while. Had it installed for a while but it wasn't very reliable, would flash error codes and not work. I sent it back to them and they did some stuff and sent it back to me. It pains me to think about putting it back in there and using it to give feedback to the ECU knowing that it could flake out again causing my engine to run like crap, but what the hell I'll give it another shot.

For those of you running the C950 & LC-1, give me your input as to how I intend to wire everything together...

-LC-1 power (red) to C950 power (red from O2 plug) **Per innovate draws up to 3 amps, is this OK?
-LC-1 system (white) , analog (green) & calibration wire (black) grounds to C950 ground (black from O2 plug)
-LC-1 heater ground (blue) to engine block
-LC-1 analog 1 (yellow) to C950 signal (purple)



 




Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
03-17-08 01:13 PM - Post#1390231    
    In response to paulm

With the Holley Commander 950 Pro EFI, you need to connect the C950 purple wire (oxygen sensor harness) to the LC-1 yellow (analog 1) wire or the brown (analog 2) wire, but not both. You should also connect the LC-1 white (system ground) & green (analog ground) wires to the C950 black wire (which should be connected to a good engine ground) and the LC-1 red wire to the C950 red wire (C950 oxygen sensor harness). This red power wire comes from a relay on C950 harness, that's only energized when the engine is running (which is the preferred wiring method for the LC-1). The LC-1 blue wire (heater ground) should also be connected to a good engine ground. All the ground wires (C950 & LC-1) need to be connected to the engine block, which should be well grounded to the battery. This is your best wiring scenario for protecting the O2 sensor and to avoid ground offsets.

Program the C950 'Closed Loop Parameters' 0-5v values using the link below. Be sure to also check the box for 'wide band O2'. Simply use this link from Innovate Motorsports for instructions (disregard references to red/tip out 1-white/ring out 2, because it pertains to LM-1 only:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/AN_14...

Then the LC-1 parameters using the Innovate LM Programmer software need to be programmed correctly. Use the above link to set the LM Programmer values. Furthermore, click on the advanced button for the 'Advanced Analog Out Settings': The 'Response Speed' needs to be changed to 1/12 sec. 'Instant' is way too fast for C950 ECU integration. The 'Warmup Output' and 'Output at Error Cond.' needs to be set at 2.5 volts (or whatever your corresponding A/F ratio voltage at idle-see graph in above C950 application note). The 'High Impedance' setting is only for simulating a narrowband oxygen sensor.

Do not use LC-1 firmware version 1.10! It's not compatible with the C950 ECU integration due to consistent error 8 codes. This is what has caused most of the problems with the LC-1. You want firmware version 1.00 (A). I can email it to you if you need it. Also LM Programmer version 3.18 (latest version) has been known to have bugs in it as well. LM Programmer version 3.15 or less has worked well for me.

Hint - Easy LC-1 heater & free air calibration (without disconnecting sensor or harness connector):
You can do a free air calibration after disconnecting the injector wire harness (or pull the appropriate EFI fuse) and crank the engine for 10 seconds with the throttle wide open. The engine won't start without fuel but it will purge the exhaust with freshly pumped air. You can then do a free air calibration by pressing the 'calibration button'. Additionally (after purging exhaust gases), if you need to do a heater and free air calibration without disconnecting the LC-1 controller or removing the sensor, open the LM Programmer software and select 'Reset Calibration' (it won't calibrate at this time). The next time the LC-1 is powered on (engine off), the LC-1 will perform a heater and free air calibration.


May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
03-17-08 01:52 PM - Post#1390260    
    In response to Danny Cabral

  • Danny Cabral Said:
The 'Warmup Output' and 'Output at Error Cond.' needs to be set at 2.5 volts (or whatever your corresponding A/F ratio voltage at idle-see graph in above C950 application note).



Most EXCELLENT input Danny!!!!!! I especially like the above as if the darn thing flakes it will send the ECU an AFR where it won't try and make major corrections. My map is dialed in so the engine runs well on the base numbers so whether the LC-1 is working or flaking the engine will run okay. I'll run open loop at idle and WOT until I gain trust in the LC-1.


P.S. I'll check my versions and let you know if I need the versions that you referred to.



Edited by paulm on 03-17-08 01:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
03-17-08 07:59 PM - Post#1390614    
    In response to paulm

I have 1.00 firmware and 3.13 software.....and it's all installed just programming the LC-1 now (based on your input).


P.S. Everything is in and programmed. What does your "Target Air Fuel Ratio" table look like?






Edited by paulm on 03-17-08 08:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
03-18-08 12:54 AM - Post#1390707    
    In response to paulm

  • paulm Said:
What does your "Target Air Fuel Ratio" table look like?

I trust my LC-1 (reliable for over two years now) and I operate in closed loop at all times.
When this was my daily driven vehicle, MAP rows 57 & 70 were leaner. (It's an off-road toy now.)


94 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.81 12.81
82 13.00 13.00 13.00 12.81 12.81 12.81 12.81 12.81
70 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50
57 14.00 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.25 14.25 14.00 14.00
44 14.00 14.50 14.75 14.75 14.50 14.50 14.25 14.25
32 14.00 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.50 14.50
20 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
08 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
____900..1300..1800..2400..3000..3600..4500..5500

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
03-18-08 06:26 AM - Post#1390854    
    In response to Danny Cabral

  • Danny Cabral Said:
I trust my LC-1 (reliable for over two years now) and I operate in closed loop at all times.



Thanks again Danny! The LC-1 will have to earn my trust as the last times I used my LM-1 and LC-1 they were flaky and that's why I sent them back. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the LC-1 works this time!!



 
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
03-19-08 09:40 AM - Post#1391867    
    In response to paulm

UPDATE:

I fired it up and let it get good and hot a few times idling in the driveway. I also took the car out and thrashed it pretty good, data logging to check AFR, etc. Everything is working great so far!



 
skips69 
Contributor
Posts: 129
skips69
Loc: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Reg: 05-11-07
05-11-08 03:07 PM - Post#1430960    
    In response to Danny Cabral

  • Danny Cabral Said:
Do not use LC-1 firmware version 1.10! It's not compatible with the C950 ECU integration due to consistent error 8 codes. This is what has caused most of the problems with the LC-1. You want firmware version 1.00 (A)...




How do I confirm my firmware version on my LC-1?

'69 Camaro ZZ502, C950 MPFI, T56


 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
05-11-08 10:15 PM - Post#1431128    
    In response to skips69

  • skips69 Said:
  • Danny Cabral Said:
Do not use LC-1 firmware version 1.10! It's not compatible with the C950 ECU integration due to consistent error 8 codes. This is what has caused most of the problems with the LC-1. You want firmware version 1.00 (A)...


How do I confirm my firmware version on my LC-1?


Using your laptop, open the LC-1's LM Programmer and the firmware version will be on the main menu screen.

Also, if you suspect your new LC-1 (6 wire units only) isn't functioning properly, you should read this:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthre...
(It seems like Innovate Motorsports is acknowledging that some LC-1s have a "processor bug".)

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
skips69 
Contributor
Posts: 129
skips69
Loc: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
Reg: 05-11-07
05-13-08 03:44 AM - Post#1431935    
    In response to Danny Cabral

Thanks again for your feedback Danny!

'69 Camaro ZZ502, C950 MPFI, T56


 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
07-05-08 07:11 PM - Post#1471155    
    In response to Danny Cabral

  • Danny Cabral Said:
I operate in closed loop at all times. When this was my daily driven vehicle, MAP rows 57 & 70 were leaner (It's mostly an off-road toy now.) Naturally aspirated engines only:

93 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.81 12.81
81 13.00 13.00 13.00 12.81 12.81 12.81 12.81 12.81
69 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50
57 14.00 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.25 14.25 14.00 14.00
45 14.00 14.50 14.75 14.75 14.50 14.50 14.25 14.25
33 14.00 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.50 14.50
21 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
09 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
____900..1300..1800..2400..3000..3600..4500..5500




I just wanted to update this thread because I've been working on a refined 'Target Air/Fuel Ratio Map' for better fuel economy. The target map above is great for performance use but it was never designed with fuel economy in mind. I recently drove my Bronco on a couple of long distance trips, so I used the time wisely and developed this target map below. My air/fuel ratios are accurate, since I recently 'free air calibrated' my LC-1 wideband sensor. I'm comfortable with this and my road testing proves it's effective for better fuel economy (and still has great power):

93 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50
81 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 12.81 12.81
69 13.50 14.00 14.00 14.00 14.00 14.00 13.50 13.50
57 14.00 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.00 14.00
45 14.00 14.50 14.75 15.00 15.00 14.50 14.25 14.25
33 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 14.75 14.75
21 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
09 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
____900..1300..1800..2400..3000..3600..4500..5500

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
paulm 
Member
Posts: 402
paulm
Reg: 02-17-03
07-07-08 07:22 AM - Post#1472142    
    In response to Danny Cabral

Pretty similar to what I run....14.50 at idle, 15-15.5 at cruise and 12.5 at WOT.


P.S. My LC-1 is still working great!



 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
07-07-08 07:45 AM - Post#1472151    
    In response to paulm

  • Danny Cabral Said:
  • Danny Cabral Said:
I operate in closed loop at all times.
When this was my daily driven vehicle, MAP rows 57 & 69 were leaner (It's
mostly an off-road toy now.) Naturally aspirated engines only:

93 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.81 12.81
81 13.00 13.00 13.00 12.81 12.81 12.81 12.81 12.81
69 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50
57 14.00 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.25 14.25 14.00 14.00
45 14.00 14.50 14.75 14.75 14.50 14.50 14.25 14.25
33 14.00 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.75 14.50 14.50
21 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
09 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
____900..1300..1800..2400..3000..3600..4500..5500


I just wanted to update this thread because I've been working on a
refined 'Target Air/Fuel Ratio Map' for better fuel economy. The target map
above is great for performance use but it was never designed with fuel
economy in mind. I recently drove my Bronco on a couple of long distance trips,
so I used the time wisely and developed this target map below. My air/fuel
ratios are accurate, since I recently 'free air calibrated' my LC-1 wideband
sensor. I'm comfortable with this and my road testing proves it's effective for
better fuel economy (and still has great power):


93 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50 12.50
81 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 12.81 12.81
69 13.50 14.00 14.00 14.00 14.00 14.00 13.50 13.50
57 14.00 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.00 14.00
45 14.00 14.50 14.75 15.00 15.00 14.50 14.25 14.25
33 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 14.75 14.75
21 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
09 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
____900..1300..1800..2400..3000..3600..4500..5500


Glad to hear your LC-1 is still functioning properly!
I could definitely try leaning it out some more in the cruise area but I'm sure it will lose some throttle response, especially during the winter (no heat passage under 'Air-Gap' intake manifold).

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 
Danny Cabral 
Member
Posts: 3447
Danny Cabral
Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 11-03-04
04-12-10 10:08 AM - Post#1897255    
    In response to Danny Cabral

I'm posting this for a friend of mine. This was my last Target Air/Fuel Ratio Map revision,
before the Dominator EFI upgrade, which has a 16 x 16 table for greater resolution.

(naturally aspirated, 10.9:1 compression, 235°@.050/110° LSA cam, automatic overdrive transmission)

93 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00 13.00
81 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50 13.50
69 13.50 14.00 14.00 14.00 14.00 14.00 14.00 14.00
57 14.00 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.50 14.25 14.25
45 14.00 14.50 14.75 15.00 15.00 14.50 14.50 14.50
33 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 14.75 14.75
21 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 14.75
09 14.00 14.75 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
____900..1300..1800..2400..3000..3600..4500..5500

May God's Grace Bless You

'78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, 4" lift, 35" tires


 




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