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Username Post: Ceramic header collector bolts        (Topic#357282)
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24954
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
07-18-19 05:38 PM - Post#2771018    

For a second time, bolts have come loose. I'm almost sure we double nut them or maybe we didn't. One is missing and two are loose. The exhaust is custom made. My guy retired a few years ago, so I can't go back to him. What kind of bolts should I be using? The collector feeds an X-pipe, and dual Magnaflow mufflers.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 


Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27657
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
07-18-19 06:45 PM - Post#2771026    
    In response to gchemist

It's not your bolts, the gasket is compressing. If you have a 3 or 4 bolt flange, switch to a soft aluminum or an embossed copper gasket.

Better yet, convert to a v-band clamp like the turbo guys use, where there's a flange welded to each pipe, and a V clamp that connects them.



 
Ray P W 
Contributor
Posts: 455

Reg: 09-30-15
07-18-19 07:08 PM - Post#2771028    
    In response to Rick_L

Gchemist,

On my sbc powered street roadster I use simple 3/8"-16 tpi stainless steel bolts, ss nuts and ss lock washers and common paper looking gaskets at the collector - exhaust pipe flange joint without any loosening after the first few uses. At first I tightened the nuts after each use but the gaskets soon stopped compressing and after over 15 years and 23,000 miles there are no leaks, noises, loose fasteners or lost fasteners.

So common hardware store fasteners and parts store flange gaskets can get 'er done.



 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17401
grumpyvette
Age: 71
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
07-19-19 04:06 AM - Post#2771047    
    In response to Ray P W

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24954
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
07-19-19 08:55 AM - Post#2771069    
    In response to grumpyvette

grumpyvette,
I signed up for your site.

I'll lift the truck up. It's too low to the ground.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


Edited by gchemist on 07-21-19 06:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24954
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
07-21-19 06:28 AM - Post#2771212    
    In response to gchemist

Digging through a truck parts box, I found a set of aluminum collector gaskets. A Mr Gasket set. I don't know the collector size. The headers are Chevelle. Should I try them if they fit? Driving around with an open header is too loud. The cab resonance is bad too. The truck A/C is working again so I need to fix the exhaust leak to drive it.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24954
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-02-19 06:23 PM - Post#2772275    
    In response to gchemist

Finally busted out the tools and aluminum gaskets. Installed the right side first. It was the worst. Absolutely no gasket left and one missing bolt. The leak was frying the steel braided transmission lines. The left side was leaking too. The left side was harder to replace. It has less movement when unbolted. I had to use a pry bar to get the aluminum gasket in place. Bolted it all up and started it up. The cab sounds so quiet now. All the exhaust is out the X pipe and dual Magnaflow mufflers. Sounds really good. It wakes up nice and good above 2000 RPMs.

All good for now. If they fail, I'll upgrade to embossed header gaskets.

Attachment: IMG_1930.jpg (66.67 KB) 5 View(s)


Mr Gasket #74216 aluminum collector gasket


Attachment: IMG_1929.jpg (77.75 KB) 3 View(s)


Left sid collector. Looks like the thin gasket is toast. Evidence of leaking too.


'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
2plus2 
Member
Posts: 1220

Loc: Mission,BC
Reg: 02-03-05
08-03-19 02:25 PM - Post#2772329    
    In response to gchemist

Summit and amazon have locking collector bolts for $25-30
If your cheap like me and have access to get breaker bars on both ends of the bolt/nut tack weld the bolt to the nut and break them off if needed

69 Canadian Pontiac 2+2
factory L48 350 Chev,TH350,PW,PT
99 Silverado RCLB 4.8 NV4500 14BSF 4.10's locker 6" Procomp 35 bfg m/t's 9k winch cutout flares
07 Town Car Loaded,Tinted,Getting Bagged


Edited by 2plus2 on 08-03-19 02:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
scrambldcj8 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2501
scrambldcj8
Loc: Belchertown, MA
Reg: 04-06-03
08-03-19 04:35 PM - Post#2772341    
    In response to gchemist

That bolt looks loose....locker washer w/out compression?



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24954
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-04-19 03:41 AM - Post#2772365    
    In response to scrambldcj8

scarmbldcj8,
The bolts were still loose when I took the photo. I kept rotating the flanges so I could get a straight line drive to them. I ended up replacing the worn out locker washers with new ones. My 1/2" impact at the highest setting flattened the washers.

2plus2,
If I had a welder, tacking them would be nice. I didn't look for collector locking bolts. I've seen them header flanges though. The aluminum gaskets seal great. If bolts do come loose, I'll grab a set of collector locking bolts.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
scrambldcj8 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2501
scrambldcj8
Loc: Belchertown, MA
Reg: 04-06-03
08-04-19 04:12 AM - Post#2772367    
    In response to gchemist

  • gchemist Said:
scarmbldcj8,
The bolts were still loose when I took the photo




Gotcha

Another option of securing a fastener is with the use of "crimp" nuts......drawing a blank right now as the proper technical term of those locking nuts (Distorted thread locknut??)....but the ones that look deformed vs. split-lock washers. The distorted lock nuts also come flanged.

Just other options for you.....



Edited by scrambldcj8 on 08-04-19 04:15 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
TAT_2 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member, and Official CT Grim Reaper
Posts: 36104

Age: 66
Loc: "UNDER THE BOARDWALK"
Reg: 10-29-00
08-04-19 01:57 PM - Post#2772402    
    In response to scrambldcj8

DEFORMED NUTS >>> SWITCH TO BOXERS

09 PONTIAC- VIBE
08 PONTIAC- G6
93 VETTE - 40TH ANIV RUBY RED LT1/6SPD/RAG TOP
NEXT ?


*****
PREVIOUS VETTE'S 58,68,70,76,78,85,90
*****


Blessed are the cross-eyed, for they will see God twice


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3679

Reg: 04-15-05
08-04-19 01:57 PM - Post#2772403    
    In response to gchemist

A lot of this sort of failure goes to things like the design and mounting of the exhaust system past the collectors and bolts.

As you are already well aware, if an engine is moving around, and the rest of the exhaust system past the collector...isn't, fastener failure will prevail.

This is why stock exhaust systems are so mounted to give the most "give" in any direction, so the stresses at a junction, like the collector, aren't stressed to failure.

May not e anything, but, I would get out and get under, and see just how solid the exhaust system is mounted past the collectors, and see if it is over stressing the collector joints to fastener failure.

The rest of the exhaust needs to be full slack in its mounting, so, if someone sneezes on the engine, the exhaust tip waves freely in the breeze.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24954
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-04-19 02:28 PM - Post#2772407    
    In response to IgnitionMan

Engine movement is minimal. It has polygraphite motor mounts. The transmission mount is poly too. Revs shake the whole truck. Slow driving shifts also shake the truck hard. The exhaust is heavy from collector to rear. Due to tucking the pipe up, it's a long run to X pipe and mufflers. Support is behind the Magnaflow mufflers. Slightly forward of rear axle. I'll take a few pics.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3679

Reg: 04-15-05
08-05-19 06:15 AM - Post#2772443    
    In response to gchemist

That just might be a large contributing factor, opposing stresses between two components at a separatable junction.

If I do a solid type mounting, it is one solid type mount on the driver site, and rubber at pass side and transmission. This stops ripping engine mounts up on torque, by not causing frames and engines to move through binding paths.

Why only one solid mount on the driver side, that is the side that rises up on torque acceleration. GM did it differently decades ago, they steel cabled the driver side of the engine, around the exhaust manifold, to the frame through the driver side suspension, by a twisted strand steel cable, to do the same as I do with only one solid engine mount.



 


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