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 Page 7 of 10 « First<78910
Username Post: Please test your parking brake.        (Topic#37711)
nodakbassmaster 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4397
nodakbassmaster
Loc: Poorhouse, SD
Reg: 03-14-04
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-28-05 11:22 PM - Post#253490    
    In response to Fixitfox33

Quote:

until Chevy came up with this "parking brake", that it SEEMS is intended to prevent, or at least slow down the movement of a vehicle across a perfectly flat parking lot, pushed by nothing more than a mild breeze.





In a level driveway if I put it in drive or reverse after setting the "parking brake" I have to chalk the tires to keep it from moving.... what does that say about when you are, say loading or unloading a 20 foot fiberglass boat? Boat ramps have a tendancy to be fairly steep, and you have the weight of the truck AND the boat behind it..... NO WAY will the brake even slow that down.

Richard

'09 Silverado 3500HD CC LB D/A LTZ Z71, Mods Annonymous Member #3


 
LMC Trucks
Anonymous 

Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-29-05 12:25 AM - Post#253491    
    In response to Fixitfox33

Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
if it's the transmission's job how can you do that with a standard transmission?



Umm...most of us with standard trannies put it in gear when we park. I don't know of anyone who parks in neutral with the parking brake the only device preventing gravity from taking over.

Was this a trick question?



Hmmm.
I have a standard transmission, and using that logic, I would need to pull up to a gate, for example, set my parking brake, KILL the engine, put it in gear, get out and open the gate, get in and drive through the gate, set the parking brake, put it in gear, KILL the engine, get out and close the gate, get back in and start.....

Aint that a bunch of crap???

I depend on my PARKING BRAKE to hold the vehicle, even on a fairly steep slope.

Good thing I don't have one of those new vehicles. I am generally a pretty loving, understanding, forgiving person. But I think I would be in somebodies face if they gave me that kind of answer.

FIX



Thank you fixitfox33 I was wondering if any of the other people who were giving me crap about my post ( talking about glove boxes?) had ever driven a standard transmission!!

Glad to see someone understands why we have a parking brake!!

Here in Vermont we start our cars and trucks to warm them up ( it was -20 yesterday) and I don't see a chunk of wood in any of the new chevys on the lot!!!!



 
Figmoman 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2935
Figmoman
Loc: Wilton, California
Reg: 11-01-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-29-05 01:57 AM - Post#253492    
    In response to jefro

Add mine to the list. 2000 Suburban 1500, bought brand new. 101+K miles. Its still on original brake pads. The parking brake has not held for years. Drive or reverse at idle on level. Vehicle rolls the same with or without parking brake applied. Ive had many many vehicles old and new. The parking brake worked on all but this one. Ill bet there have been a lot of roll aways considering the number of vehicles with this problem. I guess someone will have to be killed or maimed before GM with fix or retrofit this design.

1960 Impala Sport Coupe. 348 PG 1972 K-10 short wide. 350 4 speed
2000 Chevy Suburban 1500 2wd 5.3 1965 Pontiac GTO hardtop, 462 tri-power TKO-600, 3.90 12 bolt. 2008 Audi A4 2.0 turbo 6sp manual.



 
ExaTorq 
Senior Member
Posts: 1296

Loc: Dallas, TX
Reg: 07-16-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-29-05 03:21 AM - Post#253493    
    In response to necrid

Quote:

Thank you fixitfox33 I was wondering if any of the other people who were giving me crap about my post ( talking about glove boxes?) had ever driven a standard transmission!!




For 12 years I drove a standard tranny, most of that in very hilly areas. Does that count?

If I'm qualified, then I still stand behind what I've been saying all along: No one should be depending on their parking brake alone to hold their vehicle. It's as simple as that.

Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI


 
jefro 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1121

Loc: Texas
Reg: 06-18-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-29-05 10:36 AM - Post#253494    
    In response to necrid

I wrote about the glove box. The point being that the name describes it's use. So, a "Parking Brake" ought to do what the name is. It should brake the truck when you park.



 
redvett01 
Senior Member
Posts: 1226

Loc: Wickenburg, AZ
Reg: 10-23-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-29-05 12:11 PM - Post#253495    
    In response to nodakbassmaster

Quote:

Quote:

until Chevy came up with this "parking brake", that it SEEMS is intended to prevent, or at least slow down the movement of a vehicle across a perfectly flat parking lot, pushed by nothing more than a mild breeze.





Thats why the 05 Silverado has drum brakes and so do most of the MFGR's. GM put bigger front brakes on the front along with the drums in the rear. Works for me.

K1500 04 Silverado EXT


 
Anonymous 

Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-30-05 11:58 PM - Post#253496    
    In response to redvett01


Quote:

Thats why the 05 Silverado has drum brakes and so do most of the MFGR's. GM put bigger front brakes on the front along with the drums in the rear. Works for me.





05's do not have drum brakes!!



 
Anonymous 

Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-31-05 12:05 AM - Post#253497    
    In response to ExaTorq

Quote:

For 12 years I drove a standard tranny, most of that in very hilly areas. Does that count?

If I'm qualified, then I still stand behind what I've been saying all along: No one should be depending on their parking brake alone to hold their vehicle. It's as simple as that.




Very good point, you sould not depend on parking brakes alone. one such example is if you are parking on something slippery with a 4x4 truck. You should use the transmission (Standard or auto.) I say this because the parking brake is only the rear wheels, In 4x4 mode it would brake all drive wheels.

But I still say that you should be able to have a parking brake that you can park a car in your yard and not have it roll away!



 
GM-Tech 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4157
GM-Tech
Loc: South Florida
Reg: 06-27-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-31-05 01:46 AM - Post#253498    
    In response to necrid

Quote:

05's do not have drum brakes!!




Oh yes they do... on the 1500's.

.


 
dcarey 
Contributor
Posts: 911

Loc: Mineral, VA
Reg: 01-01-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-31-05 02:08 AM - Post#253499    
    In response to necrid

Balony! The only truck I've owned that the "parking brake" wouldn't hold is the 1999-2004 GM truck. My 96' 4x4 would hold on an incline nose up with a load or trailor, and in REVERSE!!! Same goes for my 82' 4x4. These are trucks, not passenger cars. The parking brake should be beefy enough to keep these vehicles from rolling, and you should be able to depend on them, regardless of what gear your in. GM went back to drums because their fleet sales for 1500's were fixin' to go down the toilet! A work truck has to be able to depend on it's "parking brake".

Dave 2005 5.3 Reg Cab Shortbed 4x4


 
Fixitfox33 
Senior Member
Posts: 1094
Fixitfox33
Loc: North Texas...Denison
Reg: 11-06-04
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-31-05 01:10 PM - Post#253500    
    In response to necrid

Quote:



Very good point, you sould not depend on parking brakes alone. one such example is if you are parking on something slippery with a 4x4 truck. You should use the transmission (Standard or auto.) I say this because the parking brake is only the rear wheels, In 4x4 mode it would brake all drive wheels.

But I still say that you should be able to have a parking brake that you can park a car in your yard and not have it roll away!




Actually, in reality, if you split hairs, the parking brake locks up,(they used to) BOTH rear wheels. If the transmission is used, it locks the driveshaft, so a vehicle with one rear wheel on ice, for example, will allow the ice wheel to spin backwards, while the traction wheel actually rolls foreward, holding nothing, due to differential action.
As for the 4X4, if it remains in 4X4,(Hey, don't forget that pesky front axle actuator that will release when power is removed)...if it remains in 4X4 then, the rear parking brakes lock the driveshaft, which is connected to the front driveshaft in the transfer case, and keeps that driveshaft from turning also, which in effect, is 4 wheel parking brake, assuming both front wheels are on good traction surface, or due to the front differential action, you could be in the same boat as mentioned above.
Using the transmission, take into account the differential action in some transfer cases, front vs rear, and your park goes to mush.

Yep, we probably shouldn't trust ANY mechanical device with our lives, but then you must think about all those people getting in a box, hung on a cable, suspending them 1,000 feet in the air, over an empty shaft....Yikes!! it's an ELEVATOR!
But they have redundent systems, which, assuming ALL of them work, we take our chances.
Guess that's progress, and the world we live in.
I just think a parking brake was always intended to hold a vehicle, reasonably well anyway, and I hate to think they are no longer expected to perform to the standards we grew up with.

Fix

Don't fix it if it ain't broke,
But if it's broke...I can Fixit.


"Van" (It's actually Richard....but everyone calls me Van.)


 
Anonymous 

Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-31-05 11:51 PM - Post#253501    
    In response to GM-Tech

Quote:

Thats why the 05 Silverado has drum brakes and so do most of the MFGR's. GM put bigger front brakes on the front along with the drums in the rear. Works for me.





Quote:

05's do not have drum brakes!!




Quote:

Oh yes they do... on the 1500's.




It seems GM-Tech we have the best of both worlds, you and I are both right.
The '05 2500HD does not have drum brakes.

But then considering the fact that we covered how poorly disk in rear works, I am stunned that on the Chevrolet that is Heavy Duty it would have something sub par.

Maybe we will see continued improvements to the rest of the truck line.



 
Anonymous 

Re: Please test your parking brake.
02-01-05 12:03 AM - Post#253502    
    In response to Fixitfox33

Quote:

Actually, in reality, if you split hairs, the parking brake locks up,(they used to) BOTH rear wheels. If the transmission is used, it locks the driveshaft, so a vehicle with one rear wheel on ice, for example, will allow the ice wheel to spin backwards, while the traction wheel actually rolls foreward, holding nothing, due to differential action.
As for the 4X4, if it remains in 4X4,(Hey, don't forget that pesky front axle actuator that will release when power is removed)...if it remains in 4X4 then, the rear parking brakes lock the driveshaft, which is connected to the front driveshaft in the transfer case, and keeps that driveshaft from turning also, which in effect, is 4 wheel parking brake, assuming both front wheels are on good traction surface, or due to the front differential action, you could be in the same boat as mentioned above.
Using the transmission, take into account the differential action in some transfer cases, front vs rear, and your park goes to mush.

Yep, we probably shouldn't trust ANY mechanical device with our lives, but then you must think about all those people getting in a box, hung on a cable, suspending them 1,000 feet in the air, over an empty shaft....Yikes!! it's an ELEVATOR!
But they have redundent systems, which, assuming ALL of them work, we take our chances.
Guess that's progress, and the world we live in.
I just think a parking brake was always intended to hold a vehicle, reasonably well anyway, and I hate to think they are no longer expected to perform to the standards we grew up with.

Fix




Ah, Fix you are right again. First off I wold like to say chevrolet has the best Locking rear end of the big TWO (sorry don't count Dodge anymore) so rear wheel slippage would be less then a Ford. But I was not aware of the "pesky front axle actuator that will release when power is removed" It seems I am living in a dream world, or the past when you had control over your driveline and could put you front hubs in and out. Oh, the good old days!!

As for the ELEVATOR good point but you are conversing with someone who hates to, for example ride a train plane or amusement park ride!!!



 
dcarey 
Contributor
Posts: 911

Loc: Mineral, VA
Reg: 01-01-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
02-01-05 02:37 AM - Post#253503    
    In response to necrid

Just checked my parking brake out again to make sure I wasn't delusional (about the brake anyway). I replaced the parking brakes last November when one of the retaining clips broke and I almost lost my truck in the woods. They had worked fine up to that point. On a pretty good inclined hill (maybe 30 degrees) the truck held, even in reverse. That's how they should work.

Dave 2005 5.3 Reg Cab Shortbed 4x4


 
57_sedan_delivery 
Old as Dirt Member
Posts: 6720

Loc: Hog Valley, Fla.
Reg: 02-19-01
Re: Please test your parking brake.
02-01-05 03:10 AM - Post#253504    
    In response to jefro

Quote:

The point being that the name describes it's use. So, a "Parking Brake" ought to do what the name is. It should brake the truck when you park.




I remember the day when it was also called an emergency brake.

The majority of my trucks have been manual transmissions including my current one. Depending on where I'm parking I may use the 'parking brake' but usually I just leave it in gear if it is flat. But those of us that use our trucks for something more than just to go to the office are often in and out of our trucks during the course of the day and depend on the park brake to do it's jop. If I'm working a fence line, going in and out gates, hooking/unhooking a trailer, etc. I'm not going to turn the truck engine off every time I get out of it as that would be stupid and just more wear and tear on the engine components. So in the course of a normal day my park brake is used at least a couple times and it should work.

Mike W.

Founding father Desert Classic Chevys in Phoenix, Az.

1957 sedan delivery 454 TH400
1956 windowed sedan delivery US Dept of Ag car
1956 Chevy 3100 US Navy pickup
1959 rare GMC 100 fleet option 100 pickup


 
awscpa 
Member
Posts: 1

Reg: 01-01-05
Re: Please test your parking brake.
03-16-05 06:11 PM - Post#253505    
    In response to jefro

Sorry, to bring this back up.

I replaced the rotors, parking brake shoes, and the redesigned "clip".

Adjusted according to Haynes and info here in this thread.

Will hold but still is rubbing inside of drum.

If you adjust too tight it rubs or drags. If you don't get it tight enough it won't hold.

Somewhere I read where there was an elegant fix with a dremel tool..... something trimmed off to let another part pass. What was it?

Can't find it.

Might not have been this site.

Anyone else see that.

I'm about ready to get it inspected and take the pads off for a year for some peace and quiet.

I don't see that the new "clip" accomplished anything.



 
GM-Tech 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4157
GM-Tech
Loc: South Florida
Reg: 06-27-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
03-16-05 06:33 PM - Post#253506    
    In response to awscpa

Quote:

If you adjust too tight it rubs or drags. If you don't get it tight enough it won't hold.




Not true. If properly adjusted, they hold fine and do not rub. Done plenty of 'em. We always use the gauge to properly adjust the shoes to get the required clearance.

The clip that doesn't appear to do anything just holds the shoes in position so they don't slip down and ride against the drum all the time, wearing out prematurely.

.


 
nodakbassmaster 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4397
nodakbassmaster
Loc: Poorhouse, SD
Reg: 03-14-04
Re: Please test your parking brake.
03-16-05 07:39 PM - Post#253507    
    In response to GM-Tech

well besides my parking brake not holding at all... I finally have an interesting one to add to this. The other day I had both back tires off the ground installing my back-up lights... well to try and test them by myself, I decided to put on the parking brake and put it in reverse, assuming the tires should hold still with no weight on them.. nope, not only did they not hold off the ground, but they were only catching in one spot... they would rotate and at one point in the 360 rotation would pause for a 1/8 second CLUNK and keep rotating..... it was very sickening to watch!! well, I guess I am gonna have to pull both back wheels off before boating season to try and figure out how to get them to work..... next time I am about to do this, I will take a quick video clip of it and see if someone will host it for me... it would turn some of you stomaches to hear/see it!!

Richard

'09 Silverado 3500HD CC LB D/A LTZ Z71, Mods Annonymous Member #3


 
jefro 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1121

Loc: Texas
Reg: 06-18-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
03-17-05 01:41 PM - Post#253508    
    In response to nodakbassmaster

Hummmm..... you didn't have to have the engine running to test the reverse lights (unless they changed something). Be careful buddy! There is only one of you.

Not supposed to run with the wheels off the ground. It is the same as on ice, you might over rev the dif and blow it apart.

G80's act up like that. Are you sure it isn't a locker issue?



 
Anonymous 

Re: Please test your parking brake.
12-04-05 06:15 AM - Post#253509    
    In response to Fixitfox33

This is my final comment:

After exausting phone corrospondence with GM - Chevrolet about their E-brake design problem and being assigned an Issue No. 1-270255902. but no follow up from them as they prommised, and they couldn't find the Issue No. when I did my own follow up but told me to carry out the discussion with my dealer.
Dealer turned me over to their claims department who offered the price of the replaced part only, which I accepted.

They have sence curred the problem that they claim does not exist.

The new 2006 have the old drum design brakes issue which were never a problem. (Adavanced engineering)

Only the disc brakes had the problem with the E brake.



 
2004maxx 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1817

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Reg: 11-10-03
Re: Please test your parking brake.
12-05-05 06:12 AM - Post#253510    
    In response to hatchdog

Its not like they can't design one that doesn't work. I have an '04 Malibu with 4 wheel disc brakes. The thing is 1yr 2mo old and I have no problems with the parking brake.



 
beejay 
Deceased Member
Posts: 12605
beejay
Age: 81
Loc: Pflugerville, Texas
Reg: 06-01-04
Re: Please test your parking brake.
12-05-05 10:04 AM - Post#253511    
    In response to hatchdog

I have spent the better part of 6-hours in two days reading EVERY post in this thread. I find it very informative, but very disheartening that Chevy doesn't do more for their vehicles than they do.

I have a '99 Silverado 1500, purchased in Feb, '99. I ALWAYS use the "whatever" brake when I am gonna get outta the truck. I leave it in drive, "real" brake engaged, then set the "whatever" brake. The truck is now neigh on to 6-years old, and the "whatever" brake still works. All I can say is that I'm glad to be a part of the fortunate few. GM has been steadily losing customers for a lot of reasons: poorly designed and outdated systems, while throwing in some whiz-bang stuff that has nothing to do with anything as far as drivability. If they put in as much time and thought to safety-related items and not the whiz-bangs, they would put out a better product. As it is, within about 2-3 years, Toyota Tundra will be outselling the 1500. Their customer satisfaction is one heckova lot higher that GM's right now. I hate to see this, but threads like this, and other unresolved problems by GM, will cause MANY to rethink what to buy. I love my truck, and have been fairly fortunate with it. I have no idea what my next truck will be.

Bruce

Bruce

'56 4-door BelAir, 350, Holley 600, Eddie intake, TKO 600, CPP P/S and A arms, Sierra Gold & Adobe Beige
2010 VW Jetta S/W, 2.5, 5-cyl,6-spd auto.
'87 Elkie, 350 with 700r4 tranny B&M floor shift
http://www.picturetrail.com/beejay3/"


 
whiteZ 
Member
Posts: 211

Reg: 08-27-04
Re: Please test your parking brake.
12-05-05 04:16 PM - Post#253512    
    In response to beejay

I've got almost 140K miles on my original set of regular brake pads and they still have a lot of life left. I've replaced by park brake twice and I never ever use it. Two different people have told me if you don't use your PB that the pads slip against the drum and grind the pads down so I should use it periodically to center the pads. Sounds like fooey to me.

Texas state inspection requires the PB to hold the vehicle in drive with the engine at 700 RPM. i have to have the PB adjusted everytime I have an inspection.

I believe the PB should still be an emergency brake. It would be nice to have some form of brakes if your regular brakes fail at 70MPH. Just a thought.

I love my truck but GM (and the rest of Amercia for that matter) continues to lose ground because they continue to ask what can we get by with instead of what is the right thing to do. For example,

My truck's CSK continues to get worse. If the engine grenades before I'm done with it or 200K I'll assume the knock it's had since 14K miles has something to do with it and I'll buy a Toyota next time. If the engine last well maybe I'll get another Chevy if they haven't priced them selves out of the market.



 
Anonymous 

Re: Please test your parking brake.
12-05-05 08:23 PM - Post#253513    
    In response to whiteZ

If you remember a previous post of mine, the parking brake is not meant for stopping the truck from a 70 MPH. My dad's 2003 GMC Sierra's parking brake holds well. I have tested it myself, and even around 1,300 RPM in both R and D, it held and didnt move.



 
udflyer98 
Senior Member
Posts: 145

Loc: Champaign County, Ohio
Reg: 09-17-04
Re: Please test your parking brake.
12-06-05 07:20 AM - Post#253514    
    In response to 95SilveradoC1500

At least your's works. I took mine in under the recall because it would not engage. When I picked up my truck the [Email]f@#*ing[/Email] driver's side PB would not release. Dealer told me it would cost roughly $154 to have them replace the cable. I told them to keep the cable since the system hasn't worked right for years and I quit using it. The cable wouldn't be stretched if the brake would have engaged properly in the first place.

2006 Silverado 2500HD Regular Cab LS 4x4, LLY/ZF6, Victory Red
Brotherhood of Handshakers member #9


 
glsable 
Senior Member
Posts: 477

Loc: Virginia
Reg: 07-02-03
Re to GM-TECH (parking brake)
12-30-05 07:05 AM - Post#253515    
    In response to GM-Tech

Quote:

Not true. If properly adjusted, they hold fine and do not rub. Done plenty of 'em. We always use the gauge to properly adjust the shoes to get the required clearance.

The clip that doesn't appear to do anything just holds the shoes in position so they don't slip down and ride against the drum all the time, wearing out prematurely.




GM-Tech:
Maybe bad adjustment of the clip was the problem with our 2003? After 30,000 miles and NEVER having driven with the parking brake on (the brake has always worked very well and you couldn't drive away with it on if you wanted to), the parking brake pads were worn out. Within warranty period and Chevy refused to pay for a "wear and tear" item. From what you are saying it appears to have been badly adjusted at the factory?
glsable

glsable
2003 K1500 Suburban LT
1993 Caprice wagon
1998 Volvo S70 Turbo


 
Suburbazine 
Contributor
Posts: 508
Suburbazine
Loc: Baton Rouge, LA
Reg: 01-12-06
Re: Re to GM-TECH (parking brake)
01-24-06 10:08 AM - Post#253516    
    In response to glsable

Hello all, I just noticed this sticky. I just had close to 1100 dollars worth of repairs to the brake system done because of the parking brake. No, the thing hasn't ever been used as an emergency brake. It has also not been driven on. But still it wore out mysteriously.

I discovered it was out while parking on my driveway facing downhill (with an empty trailer attached). I stopped, applied the P-brake, and shifted into park. When I released the brake pedal, the truck rolled forward without resistance (while in park). I'm pretty sure the pawl is torn up because it made an extremely nasty racheting noise; I can only assume it couldn't seat because the P-brake did not hold the truck long enough. I also had no warning about the brake being out, I had to find out the hard way.

I took it to the dealer, who then discovered I had torn up the brake rotors and the (whatever) mounts, resulting in a huge labor and parts fee. This also seriously affected the ABS system's ability to keep those wheels from locking. Under a moderate stop from 55MPH the right rear wheel went into a full lock and the truck went into a fishtail (not a bad one as I corrected quickly). Again, this Tahoe was not driven with the p-brake engaged, at least it was all the way released, ever (only 50,000 miles)

I think it's a defective design, and the brakes don't fully release. My situation may be worse than others because the problem got away for longer. But if your p-brake doesn't work, have it looked at IMMEDIATELY.

2002 Tahoe 5.7L Full Forged 12.5:1 DCR
EPS Tune
Some Sort of Exhaust
A Small Cam
Heads Ported/Polished/Milled Some Thousandths
4L80E swap
Circle-D Pro III 258mm 3B Converter


 
ChevyRadoMan 
Member
Posts: 89

Reg: 01-31-06
Re: Please test your parking brake.
01-31-06 10:45 AM - Post#253517    
    In response to jefro

i tested it and rolled down a hill... now what?





 
Squasher 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1726
Squasher
Loc: Northern California
Reg: 07-05-02
Re: Please test your parking brake.
02-20-06 05:10 PM - Post#253518    
    In response to ChevyRadoMan

I checked my PB yesterday and it didn't work . An ant under the tire as a wheel chock could have done better . I never had any problem with my PB before. It just gave out with no warning. I checked it about 3 months ago. I have a little over 48k miles on my 2001. My main brakes work. I never park on a hill and I always used my P-brake when the vehicle is turned off.

Do you think there is major damage or just the shoes need replacing?

2001 GMC Sierra K1500 Z71 x/cab SLT 5.3L


 
JumpandJive305 
Member
Posts: 1

Loc: Orland, California, in th...
Reg: 03-28-06
Re: Please test your parking brake.
03-28-06 07:11 AM - Post#253519    
    In response to Squasher

Any news if Chevrolet will fix the problem with their 2007 pickups and sport-utility vehicles?

I have always been one to think that even though the transmission is supposed to keep the vehicle stationary: if the parking brake doesn't do any good why have it installed?

A parking brake installed to back up the parking pawl that doesn't work WILL NOT back up the transmission.

A Mopar man that also like Bowties.


 
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