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Username Post: Oil Bath Filter Conversion        (Topic#351037)
2D51STYDLX 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 892
2D51STYDLX
Loc: So. Prairie Washington
Reg: 03-03-11
05-09-18 09:21 AM - Post#2733507    

Anybody found a paper element filter that goes inside without to much butchering the stock look. Mine leaks and I don't know where. A part# would be great.

Roger

Roger
1951 2 door Deluxe Bone stock, well not quite, bucket seats.
Broken hearts and dirty windows
Make life difficult to see
Thats why last night and this morning
Always look the same to me
John Prine



 

2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18383
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
05-09-18 10:56 AM - Post#2733511    
    In response to 2D51STYDLX

Thre were two filters available, one the oil bath the other was one with a metal screen that needed to be serviced. Which one are you talking about?

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
2D51STYDLX 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 892
2D51STYDLX
Loc: So. Prairie Washington
Reg: 03-03-11
05-09-18 11:57 AM - Post#2733522    
    In response to 2blu52

Oil bath, It has a fill line for the level.

Roger
1951 2 door Deluxe Bone stock, well not quite, bucket seats.
Broken hearts and dirty windows
Make life difficult to see
Thats why last night and this morning
Always look the same to me
John Prine



 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18383
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
05-09-18 02:37 PM - Post#2733538    
    In response to 2D51STYDLX

  • 2D51STYDLX Said:
Oil bath, It has a fill line for the level.


Being an oil bath then if the oil is leaking I would just clean it up good, look for a small rust out and glass it and use it that way. It is my opinion that the oil bath while more troublesome to maintain is a better filter. If you do some archive research you may find the filter you need.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13775
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
05-09-18 04:04 PM - Post#2733542    
    In response to 2blu52

I agree with the oil bath air cleaners being better filters. When they don't get cleaned out for long periods of time, moisture droplets collect in the bottom of the pan and if left there for years will cause small rust holes. Mine had holes like that and I just had them welded up.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Sethmark 
Contributor
Posts: 162

Loc: Statesboro, GA
Reg: 05-04-16
05-11-18 07:57 AM - Post#2733681    
    In response to rrausch

Can’t speak directly to the oil bath, but on the screen filter I just measured the cup size and matched it to a paper filter from wix.

http://m.wixfilters.com/SearchBySize





 
Dave in VA 
Poster
Posts: 60
Dave in VA
Age: 67
Loc: SW Virginia, USA
Reg: 03-11-18
05-11-18 02:21 PM - Post#2733715    
    In response to Sethmark

I couldn't find one for this air cleaner, unless I missed something. I believe the mesh ID is 6.5", and OD is 8".



"Knowledge is Good" -- Emil Faber

U S Navy MM2 1970-75 USS Canisteo AO-99, USS Miller DE-1091 (The Champagne of Ships)

1950 Styleline Deluxe 2dr, mostly stock, driver quality...new to me 3/18


 
tommy49 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2286
tommy49
Loc: Kaleva, Michigan
Reg: 09-28-12
05-11-18 03:33 PM - Post#2733720    
    In response to 2D51STYDLX

You can look at these:

Wix 46094 8.45 x 6,475 x 2.125

Onan 140-2522 8.25 x 6.375 x 2.25
140-1228

John Deere AM-106953 6.5 x 8.25 x 2

I use the Onan in my air cleaner.





Attachment: new_air_cleaner_9.JPG (159.29 KB) 1 View(s)

Tommy

49 Deluxe Sport Coupe, 55 235, 700r4, Blazer rear axle, 4 wheel power disc brakes.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyfortynine /album...


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4172
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
05-14-18 06:28 PM - Post#2733983    
    In response to tommy49

Hi Guys, Why do you think oil bath filters are superior to paper element filters?

Personally I think oil bath filters are much in the same league as return line only oil filters.

I grew up in the paper element era and so they seem perfectly natural to me. Particularly given that they can filter all the air going into the engine down to quite reasonable micron levels.

What concerns me in converting an oil bath filter to paper is what volume of air at what restriction the paper element will pass.
The trap being small filters in the aftermarket with large flows rarely if ever filter to OE standard.

Having worked in the filtration manufacture area for GM as an AC Delco product engineer I believe that properly manufactured paper/oil air filters will give better filtration than oil bath types as fitted to old Chevies.

Cheers Kiwi



48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 05-14-18 06:29 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
RAM_51 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4800
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
05-15-18 08:50 PM - Post#2734071    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

  • Bel Air kiwi Said:
Hi Guys, Why do you think oil bath filters are superior to paper element filters?


The oil bath oil filter is recommended in environments that can be or are particularly dusty. The filters in and of themselves [oil bath and regular] operate about the same, with one caveat. The oil bath filter, because of it's design, will cause the larger particles of dust and dirt to be deposited in the oil....never making it to the filter portion of the air cleaner; thus keeping the main part of the filter from clogging rapidly. I live in central Washington state where dust storms are not an uncommon occurance. Because of that fact, I run oil bath air filters. It just keeps me from changing out or cleaning filters more often than I would like. Or I should say that both my '50 and '51 were equipped with [truck] oil bath air cleaners when I bough them. Both had been daily use vehicles in this [dusty] area. I have simply kept them as purchased.


1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18383
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
05-16-18 05:54 AM - Post#2734085    
    In response to RAM_51

  • RAM_51 Said:
  • Bel Air kiwi Said:
Hi Guys, Why do you think oil bath filters are superior to paper element filters?


The oil bath oil filter is recommended in evironments that can be or are particularly dusty. The filters in and of themselves operate about the same, with one caveat. The oil bath filter, because of it's design, will cause the larger particles of dust and dirt to be deposited in the oil....never making it to the filter portion of the air cleaner; thus keeping the main part of the filter from clogging rapidly. I live in central Washington state where dust storms are not an uncommon occurance. Because of that fact, I run oil bath air filters. It just keeps me from changing out or cleaning filters more often than I would like. Or I should say that both my '50 and '51 were equipped with [truck] oil bath air cleaners when I bough them. Both had been daily use vehicles in this [dusty] area. I have simply kept them as purchased.



I agree. Looking back I have had the thought that the demise of the oil bath cleaner was due to design considerations, lower hood, larger carbs, rather than the disposable paper being more efficient.


"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13775
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
05-16-18 07:19 AM - Post#2734096    
    In response to 2blu52

I prefer the oil bath for the same reasons, but also they are cheaper to run and their ability to filter does not deteriorate with usage like paper filters.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4172
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
05-16-18 02:03 PM - Post#2734115    
    In response to rrausch

Hi Guys, thanks for your thoughts. I would characterize the standard air filter as an oiled metal element. As the air passes through it will get most of the dust to stick to the oil in the mesh, so just as with any element if it works it is clogging up from day one till its serviced.

If you take that element out and replace it with another medium that is also oiled it will work just the same provided it has similar flow resistance and filtering capability. If you used the same foam material as small engines use, it would also be washable and re-usable.
If you use a paper element that is normally a throw away but some like K&N are re-oil-able.
You can blow the dust out of a paper element (from the inside.) but that does not renew them to as new condition.

The deluxe or optional air cleaner with the oil bath is actually a combination of two filtering concepts. (It was the only one we got down under.)

The oilbath type filter added the concept of a pre-cleaner to the existing element in an attempt to remove larger particulate material before it got to the oiled metal mesh element.
In theory this allowed for a longer service period.

This combination is still standard fit on most farm, earthmoving and off road equipment. Although the pre-cleaners may not be oil bath any more.


The real difference between oil bath and paper elements is actually the difference between oiled metal mesh and oiled paper elements. That is the core of the issue.

So it comes down to how small a particle and with what resistance each filter element type gives you.
This applies equally in comparing oiled metal mesh V oiled paper as it does in comparing OE oiled paper v aftermarket oiled or plain paper.

I must concede I have never lab tested an oiled metal mesh filter.


So I can not verify what their typical microns v "Hg of resistance per unit area are.

But I am reasonably comfortable that the ability of a metal mesh to be constructed down to the levels of particle filtering size that filter paper achieves is highly unlikely.

Therefore it is highly unlikely that a metal mesh element will match a paper element for filtering efficacy.

But with this increased filtering efficacy comes increased flow restriction and in paper elements this is mitigated by increasing the surface area of the element. That's why they are almost universally pleated. However in OE elements the so called "filter oil" still remains a vital part of the process, and this is the the part you will often find missing in some aftermarket filters.

Also some aftermarket filters are made with low grade, low resistance paper. That is it lets through larger particles in an effort to be low resistance. The big give away is often white filter paper.

Proprietary filter oil usually has a color dye added and is a very volatile and dangerous product. It has to be ground shipped and is bought in bulk to maintain production, which adds significant holding costs to the process.

So my understanding is that given an apples to apples comparison oiled paper elements will out perform oiled metal mesh and oiled foam filters.

The issue in fitting a paper element to an older engine is to know what size will give you the same intake resistance as before. If you do not get very close then the carburetion settings may be off and if the intake resistance is higher you may loose significant fuel economy.

Or looking at this the other way, if you use small paper elements and it still runs then you are probably not filtering much at all.

No longer having access to the testing facilities that would give me an answer to this in a couple of days of rolling road and lab work.
My best answer is to look for the biggest OE filter you can fit, and work out what CFM your engine consumes compared to the donor vehicle.

A 200" engine that turns 5600 is probably big enough for our low revers, but the next step is to compare the vacuum signals in the intake and the mixtures post combustion.

Cheers Kiwi











48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 05-16-18 02:57 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13775
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
05-17-18 06:14 AM - Post#2734161    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

All my oil bath filters are very simple. Air enters at the top of the filter and is forced downward. There is a slight air space at the bottom of the inner housing between the inner housing and the top of the oil bath. Air has to make a sharp 180 degree turn there at the bottom, and all heavier-than-air particles--dust, etc. can't make the turn, go straight down and land on top the oil where after a bit they sink to the bottom. I clean mine out every few years.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
RAM_51 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4800
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
05-17-18 06:37 AM - Post#2734163    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
Air enters at the top of the filter and is forced downward. There is a slight air space at the bottom of the inner housing between the inner housing and the top of the oil bath. Air has to make a sharp 180 degree turn there at the bottom, and all heavier-than-air particles--dust, etc. can't make the turn, go straight down and land on top the oil where after a bit they sink to the bottom.




Attachment: GMC_Truck_Oil_Bath_Air_Cleaner_Cross_Section.jpeg (1.07 MB) 5 View(s)


GMC Truck Oil Bath Air Cleaner Cross Section


1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4172
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
05-17-18 04:17 PM - Post#2734207    
    In response to RAM_51

Hi Guys, that is exactly how they work, however the sharp bend over the oil trap catches some of the heavier particulate material.

That is the pre-cleaner function. The second and finer filtering is through the oiled metal mesh just like the standard filter type.

How fine the screening of the oiled metal mesh determines the filtering ability.

The pre-cleaner just extends the time it takes the filter part to get filled up with trapped dirt and dust in the mesh (Element.)

If the mesh in both versions is the same then the filtering will be to the same level, it's just that the oil bathed one will stay less clogged for longer as its filer is not dealing with the heavier particulates.

The question as to what ability the oiled metal mesh has at filtering versus other types like foam or paper is a different matter. For me oiled OE paper wins that hands down.

It is very common in off road and construction to have pre-cleaners before large paper elements.

Hi Ram, I think your image is a little misleading as the incoming air does not pass through the oil in the bath. It actually does a sharp restricted turn over it to encourage it to drop the heavier particulate material.

Cheers Kiwi



48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 05-17-18 04:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

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