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Username Post: camber adjustment problem        (Topic#349894)
leon phelps 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4143
leon phelps
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
03-01-18 03:38 AM - Post#2726078    

Hello,

Tried the ackerman fix. couldnt do it. Would need a new oil pan for the ls swap. wasnt sure if I would need to pull the engine to put the pan in. Not in physical shape to try that one for a while.

So my new problem....
New centerlink and the old rest of the suspension. All old stuff has 3,000 miles on it.

Had car towed to alignment shop. Here are the best specs we could dial in...
-1.5 camber -.9
.9 caster .7
.18 toe .25

caster was the only number in the red. From what I have read, I want anywhere from zero to +1.

Trying to figure out best solution for this. I see the offset upper shafts will add 1.25 degrees camber. This should get me to only -.25 for the drivers side and the passenger camber would be able to be zeroed out.

I see companies also make tubular arms that include the offset shafts. Not sure how much they can make up for negative camber.

Any suggestions gladly appreciated. Couple long hours in this one. Summer is approaching. lol



 
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Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
03-01-18 07:32 AM - Post#2726089    
    In response to leon phelps

Car's stance is level? If you have radials I set this car up with at least 2 degrees caster. Why so much negative camber? Unless that occurred trying to get more caster. Camber would be about .3 to maybe 0. Negative .25 is not desired but not a big problem. Do you have new springs in the car, is the suspension settled?



 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1458
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
03-01-18 07:58 AM - Post#2726093    
    In response to leon phelps

Hello Leon,
I think you could certainly afford more caster. Try 2 or 2.5 if you can extend the rods that far.
No expert, but perhaps that would bring the camber just slightly closer to the zero point? I'd think it would be acceptable to have a little negative camber without tire wear issues. Say .5?
Your ride height can also adversely effect the camber. Too high as a result of too stiff or too tall of a spring will always induce some form of excessive negative camber.

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
03-01-18 08:34 AM - Post#2726097    
    In response to mjc1

Parallel thinking! Lol



 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1458
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
03-01-18 08:38 AM - Post#2726101    
    In response to Shepherd

We're in alignment!
"moan"

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
Crusty66 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 315
Crusty66
Age: 58
Loc: Albany, eNZed
Reg: 11-04-12
03-01-18 11:02 AM - Post#2726120    
    In response to mjc1

too high suspension will induce positive camber.

if the car is lowered, this will make it tend to negative camber. Lowering also reduces caster. The original stance was nose high. Every degree of angle the front is lowered reduces caster by a degree too.

I run -.25 camber, this improves cornering, but mine is lowered about 1.5 - 2" by springs.

negative camber can be compensated for with the toe setting - to a point, but low caster will make the car wander and the steering feel vague.


Steve
1966 Caprice 396 496 496mkII TH400


 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1458
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
03-01-18 02:28 PM - Post#2726138    
    In response to Crusty66

Interesting, I'd always thought that with a LSA suspension, as the lower (long) arm drops (front comes up), the upper (short) arm drops and begins to tuck to center creating a negative camber condition (top of the tire tucks in). Negative camber is top of tire tipped in off of vertical, right?

In my suggesting to lengthen the strut rods, I actually meant to say shorten.

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
leon phelps 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4143
leon phelps
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
03-01-18 04:56 PM - Post#2726165    
    In response to mjc1

I have taken the strut rods in almost all the way.

Spoke to Global West suspension today. They said their tubular arms and offset top rod will give 5 degrees positive camber. Then I can shim to get the 3 1/2 out to get correct camber.

Now to scrounge up the $550 for it.

For the $550 they will install the offset top rod in the arm. Otherwise, I would be installing it in my original one.

The offest rod alone only gives 1.5 degrees positive. That would leave me at .25 negative best case.





 
leon phelps 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4143
leon phelps
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
03-01-18 04:58 PM - Post#2726166    
    In response to Shepherd

Shepherd,

springs have been in car for 3 years. car has a rake, front couple inches lower than rear. It is a little high, the ls is lighter than the 283 it originally had.





 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
03-01-18 05:58 PM - Post#2726174    
    In response to leon phelps

The nosed tipped down relative to the rear will reduce caster some. Some times it can be difficult to increase caster without moving camber out of range. Aftermarket adjustable upper arms are designed to correct these issues.



 
japete92 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 962
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
03-01-18 06:08 PM - Post#2726177    
    In response to leon phelps

  • leon phelps Said:
I have taken the strut rods in almost all the way.

Spoke to Global West suspension today. They said their tubular arms and offset top rod will give 5 degrees positive camber. Then I can shim to get the 3 1/2 out to get correct camber.

Now to scrounge up the $550 for it.

For the $550 they will install the offset top rod in the arm. Otherwise, I would be installing it in my original one.

The offest rod alone only gives 1.5 degrees positive. That would leave me at .25 negative best case.





Check you info. I believe that's +5 degrees positive caster; not camber.




 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
03-01-18 06:58 PM - Post#2726185    
    In response to japete92

You are correct.



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4011

Reg: 12-29-02
03-02-18 12:39 PM - Post#2726253    
    In response to leon phelps

The shop did know about the eccentric bolt on the lower control arm, right?

The shop I took my car to for it's the last alignment didn't adjust at those bolts so they had to re-do it again using the eccentric bolts. They tried giving it back with way too much negative camber.



 
leon phelps 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4143
leon phelps
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
03-06-18 09:28 AM - Post#2726644    
    In response to 65_Impala

The lower eccentric is all the way to one side, the side that got the camber closest.

http://www.globalwest.net/billet-steel-upper-co ntr...

Shaft only give 1 1/4 degree not the 5 previous person claimed. If I go with the complete tubular arm it gives you the 5 degrees, difference is $140 versus $600.





 
bigbowtielover 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2511
bigbowtielover
Loc: Surrey British Columbia
Reg: 09-01-13
03-06-18 06:31 PM - Post#2726690    
    In response to leon phelps

Sounds like you have a bent or sagged frame.



 
Rick Dorion 
"4th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 246
Rick Dorion
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Reg: 09-21-12
03-07-18 03:51 AM - Post#2726716    
    In response to bigbowtielover

As a point of reference - when my car had stock front suspension I was able to get 2.75 degrees of caster, .5 degree negative camber without any difficulty.

1967 Belair - perfect floor, frame and pinchwelds. Oh boy.


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4011

Reg: 12-29-02
03-07-18 10:18 AM - Post#2726748    
    In response to leon phelps

Yes, sounds like a bent or sagging frame.

Using the offset shafts and getting the camber down to -0.25* on both sides would be fine. You don't need the camber at 0*.



 
leon phelps 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4143
leon phelps
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
03-08-18 10:54 AM - Post#2726885    
    In response to 65_Impala

thanks. the original alignment was done by a local old timer. I was the last one he did. He closed his doors and it took me a week to track him down to get the car. Wasnt sure what type of job he did, I am just trying to undo the ackerman screw up I had with the ls oil pan.

thanks for all of the help. now to sell something on ebay to get the cash for the arms.



 
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