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Username Post: Ohhh Nooo! - Oil Leak Questions        (Topic#349883)
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
02-28-18 08:37 AM - Post#2725961    

As some of you know, we did a complete overhaul on the '55 235 in the FortyNiner in the winter 2016/2017 time frame. From the time I got her back on the road I have been plagued with a series of oil leaks. A couple of them were no big deal and were easily eliminated. The one I'm about to describe is going to take quite a bit more to eliminate so I thought I would put our thinking out there and see what you folks think.
When I drive the car around at moderate speeds, say below 45 - 50, I don't see any leaking. After a run at speeds above 50 I have some significant leakage - enough to leave a five inch puddle after a 40 minute run at 55 mph. The oil is all over the bottom of the starter and is dripping out of the weep hole on the bottom of the pan covering the flywheel. We don't think it's the main. It looks like it's coming from above and running down almost like the plug on one of the oil galleys. It really only does this after it gets up to speeds over 50. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
28534440_1021174768250739 0_304059872_n by Mike, on Flickr

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 

Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1293

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
02-28-18 08:46 AM - Post#2725962    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

You could put some oil leak tracer dye in it, take off the cover and try to find the source.



 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18431
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
02-28-18 04:09 PM - Post#2726028    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

Is there a soft plug above the flywheel. Would require pulling the engine to check.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
Kyle G. 
Poster
Posts: 29

Age: 22
Loc: Delanco, New Jersey
Reg: 11-29-15
02-28-18 04:25 PM - Post#2726031    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

I had this same problem happen to me at speeds above 60 mph. I had installed one of those foam filled vented oil filler caps in my non-vented valve cover. That filler cap was too restrictive for the amount of suction my road draft tube was creating at those speeds and was sucking oil out of the crankcase.

1950 Chevy Styleline Deluxe
1946 Willys CJ-2A


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13819
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
02-28-18 05:21 PM - Post#2726036    
    In response to Kyle G.

Lets hope it's something as simple as what Kyle posted.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1039
cbmkr56
Age: 62
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
02-28-18 06:35 PM - Post#2726044    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

Rope or rubber rear main seal



 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
02-28-18 06:49 PM - Post#2726045    
    In response to 2blu52

The soft plugs that could be involved are the two small plugs at the back of the oil galleys on either side and the plug behind the camshaft. We believe that it would be possible to get to these on a lift removing the trans, flywheel and clutch and supporting the rear of the engine with a jack.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
02-28-18 06:50 PM - Post#2726046    
    In response to Kyle G.

I should've mentioned that the valve cover is the old style secured by the two acorn nuts and having the vents across the top.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
02-28-18 06:52 PM - Post#2726047    
    In response to cbmkr56

Since I couldn't find a NOS asbestos rope seal in time and the new style rope seal that I had was terrible, we put a neoprene seal in. I had a neoprene seal in from 2008 until we tore it down in 2016 and never had a problem.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1039
cbmkr56
Age: 62
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
02-28-18 08:19 PM - Post#2726057    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

If you could pull the flywheel cover and clean behind the flywheel and then start it you could see if it is the oil galley plugs camshaft plug or the rear main seal.
It sucks to have to chase a leak on a fresh build but i have done it. It just happens.



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27475
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
02-28-18 08:52 PM - Post#2726059    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

  • FortyNineCoupe Said:
.....We believe that it would be possible to get to these on a lift removing the trans, flywheel and clutch and supporting the rear of the engine with a jack.


Wouldn't you have to pull the bellhousing to get at those plugs?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
02-28-18 09:09 PM - Post#2726061    
    In response to cbmkr56

Maybe Harry. I'm thinking we may be finding out.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
02-28-18 09:11 PM - Post#2726062    
    In response to raycow

Not sure Ray - I guess maybe.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18431
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
03-01-18 06:24 AM - Post#2726084    
    In response to raycow

  • raycow Said:
  • FortyNineCoupe Said:
.....We believe that it would be possible to get to these on a lift removing the trans, flywheel and clutch and supporting the rear of the engine with a jack.


Wouldn't you have to pull the bellhousing to get at those plugs?

Ray


From what I remember you are correct Ray!


"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4222
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
03-01-18 02:36 PM - Post#2726142    
    In response to 2blu52

Hi Blue, You could be building up internal pressure as stated by others.
From memory there is a large water plug cap, a similar one on the cam tunnel which could weep oil, and two small threaded plugs.

The draft tube seems unlikely to me as it may cover the starter but it shouldn't get inside the bell. No reason why you can't have two leaks though.

Normally it would be the rocker cover that is first to check. Just wash the back of the engine clean and go for a drive. Use mirrors or white rags to check. Then proceed down the engine.

You could think about a PCV system but I feel you would be better to find the issue first.
The other fix is reduce engine revs, either number of gears or diff ratio.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 03-01-18 02:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
03-01-18 03:49 PM - Post#2726157    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Thanks Kiwi - it was me. As far as I know, Blu isn't dealing with this right now.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
03-02-18 04:12 PM - Post#2726265    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Here is a photo of my other block ('62) showing where I would think the problem is coming from. Yes it looks like the bell housing will have to come off too. The small oil galley plugs (1 & 2) aren't threaded on the '55 block and don't have a squared end to screw them in. They are tapped in just like the larger plugs. I don't understand how a water plug can weep oil Kiwi, so I don't think that's the offender. I've already checked and replaced a valve cover gasket and I did have a cracked end on the oil gauge sending tube but I've taken care of that also. I guess we won't know what it really is until we get it apart. I'm hoping to change the rear gears at the same time we get into this too.

IMG_20180302_145745152Rea r of Block by Mike, on Flickr

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27475
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
03-02-18 04:40 PM - Post#2726266    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

#3 is the camshaft plug, and it can definitely weep oil.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
03-02-18 04:54 PM - Post#2726268    
    In response to raycow

Yes it certainly can Ray. In fact all three of the plugs I circled can. The one above those three that Kiwi mentioned is a water plug. I don't think that one can. Am I missing anything here?

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


Edited by FortyNineCoupe on 03-02-18 07:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27475
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
03-02-18 08:11 PM - Post#2726282    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

No, that water plug isn't going to leak oil, but it can rust through and leak water. Considering its location, you might want to replace it when you have the bellhousing off, even if it's not leaking now.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
03-03-18 04:39 AM - Post#2726295    
    In response to raycow

Thanks but all of these were replaced less than a year ago - overhauled the entire engine. That's what makes this so frustrating.
WP_20160928_011 by Mike, on Flickr


WP_20170320_001 by Mike, on Flickr



Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
03-04-18 05:18 PM - Post#2726429    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

Yesterday I did a short run out to have a fast food lunch in the Chevy - bell housing pan still off from the other day. I didn't exceed 35 mph the entire trip. I didn't see a drop of oil. Later yesterday afternoon, we took it for some errands running - maybe 18 miles round-trip with three stops. I hit 50 mph for maybe 2 miles of this outing. First stop I saw drips leading to the parking spot and about a 2 1/2" diameter spot underneath when we returned. Started it went to stop #2 - left it running for about 3 or 4 minutes. I saw it dripping while running and left another 2 1/2" spot. I went to the third stop, pulled into the parking spot and saw drips heading in and another 2 1/2" spot. I came home, same dripping issue and parked it. I waited about five minutes and checked the oil. The dipstick showed that it was 1/2 to 3/4 of a quart low.
I checked it this morning and it was full.
I located the old draft tube and replaced the one that was in there with the old one late today. I'm not expecting any miracles but when I pulled the one that was in there and looked at the outlet, there didn't appear to be a normal amount of oil in the tube or on the end. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18431
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
03-04-18 09:04 PM - Post#2726452    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

There is a baffle in the road draft tube, possibly missing or slipped.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
03-06-18 07:50 AM - Post#2726632    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

Well now I'm really baffled and kinda embarrassed. I took the Chevy out yesterday after changing the road draft tube. I didn't drive it very far and I didn't take it over 40. Not long into the drive l noticed smoke coming from below and it smelled like oil hitting hot exhaust. When I brought it back, I had a trail of serious oil drips following me. Here's what I learned when I lifted the hood.
The serious oil leak is coming from the "tee" fitting on the block. We ran this off of the threaded opening near the oil galley on the driver's side. From this "tee" we ran the supply line to the oil filter( that's not leaking) and on the side closest to the firewall the line to the gauge. The gauge line is the offender and get this: it is apparently directly in line with an opening in the front of the bell housing where the oil streams when it's under pressure and probably rolls around on the flywheel and drips out of the weep hole on the bottom of the pan. I guess I'm gonna need to replace the gauge line and hope that's the only leak I have.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18431
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
03-06-18 09:48 AM - Post#2726647    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

Possibly it a mismatch in thread type or number. I went to a local auto parts house and told them I needed an extension to fit the front oil-line on my 216,(tired or the hassle fitting the oil line directly to the block) got one took it home, fitted it and hooked up the line. Felt like it tightened up with no problems, wrong, leaked like a sieve, wrong thread. May not be your problem however. Any way glad to read that you may have-found the problem.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13819
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
03-06-18 11:02 AM - Post#2726655    
    In response to 2blu52

GREAT! Glad you finally traced it down.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
03-07-18 03:52 PM - Post#2726781    
    In response to rrausch

That will be great if that's the problem. Because the weather had been lousy, I haven't been able to follow up. I think tomorrow, I'll just plug it and drive it to see what it does.

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
FortyNineCoupe 
Contributor
Posts: 406
FortyNineCoupe
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Reg: 10-03-09
03-09-18 06:37 PM - Post#2727059    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

I plugged it, drove it and it didn't leak yet. I think more testing is in order - especially high speed. I'm going to try to do that this weekend so I can cross it off and turn my attention to swapping the rear gears out for Powerglide .

Mike
'49 Styleline DeLuxe Sport Coupe


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4222
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
03-11-18 08:31 PM - Post#2727253    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

Great you found it. It may be as simple as a taper thread and a straight thread. Straight into straight is going to leak under pressure, even if the threads are bottomed out.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27475
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
03-11-18 09:41 PM - Post#2727262    
    In response to FortyNineCoupe

The stock oil gauge line is 1/8" tubing and uses a "threaded sleeve" type fitting. The tube nut has straight male threads which I believe are 5/16"-24, although I haven't been able to find a thread chart to confirm this.
http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Threaded_Slee...

A tee fitting MAY exist which will accept this nut and seal properly, but I haven't seen any in quite a long time. The usual setup these days has a tee with 1/8" pipe threads and a separate pipe thread adapter which the nut screws into.
http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Threaded_Slee...

This type of fitting is still being made by most of the major fitting mfrs, but you may have trouble finding them stocked in stores. If you can't find one locally and don't want to order online, you can cut the nut off the tube and use the common type of 1/8" compression fitting. These practically grow on trees and can be found almost anywhere.

If you have questions about any of the above, feel free to ask.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 

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