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Username Post: Crane anti-pump up lifters        (Topic#349618)
Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-12-18 10:55 AM - Post#2724153    

Anyone have any experience with anti pump up lifters? Me being me, I got a set thinking they'll help high end, but I can't seem to win for losing getting them adjusted. I fired up the motor to break them in, everything seemed fine. Backed the motor back down to idle, valve started tapping. Hard. I pulled the cover, found a rocker ridiculously loose. Went through and ran all the valves again. EOIC method. Unplugged the distributor and turned the motor over a few times. Suddenly I had 4 loose rockers. Did it again. Same result. I'm losing my mind over here.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 




grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17164
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
02-12-18 11:23 AM - Post#2724157    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

it sure sounds like a valve adjustment and rocker retainer nut issue not a lifter issue , unless your cam lobes are rapidly wearing due to the cam failing break-in,
Id suggest


standard OEM rocker nuts like these can get loose and not retain the proper clearances, as vibration allows them to slowly back off

rocker stud jam nuts with a locking center jam stud are less likely to loosen




read the link don,t just breeze over the info

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...


IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 02-12-18 11:30 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
02-12-18 12:10 PM - Post#2724159    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

Screw in studs?



 
Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-12-18 12:53 PM - Post#2724162    
    In response to Shepherd

It has edelbrock aluminum heads (performer RPM) with screw in rocker studs and push rod guides. I read over the info Gumpy, and I have roller rockers with the poly lock nuts on them. The nut was still tight just as I'd set it when I checked it. It acted loose again after just a couple rotations on the starter. Never fired the car. My cam lobes appear to still have proper lift from my dial indicator so I don't think it's a lobe. I think it's something funky with these lifters. I turned the motor over until oil pressure came up to about 30# and some of the ones that "came loose" were tight again.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
02-12-18 01:15 PM - Post#2724164    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

I think these lifters are designed go bleed down easily to prevent pump up at high rpms and valve float, but at 30# that process should not be occurring, maybe some defective lifters, I would check with the Crane tech line.



 
Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-12-18 01:54 PM - Post#2724167    
    In response to Shepherd

Oh good lord don't put that evil on me. I really don't want to have to take my intake back off. I think I'm gonna try lashing them again and then priming the oil pump. See what happens then.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
02-12-18 02:54 PM - Post#2724172    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

Yeh, intake is a pain, especially the clean up, good luck, let us know.



 
Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-12-18 03:06 PM - Post#2724175    
    In response to Shepherd

It's not the removal process that gets me. It's the fact that I just paid for those gaskets I put on there.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17164
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
02-12-18 05:17 PM - Post#2724185    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

the fast bleed lifters should sound like a rhythmic sewing machine, or more like a properly adjusted flat tappet solid cam, they are never going to be as quiet as a typical hydraulic lifter but thats fine and expected

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 02-13-18 06:07 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3331

Reg: 04-15-05
02-12-18 05:27 PM - Post#2724186    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

When I use bleed down lifters, I only use them on the intake valves, not the exhausts.

I also only use the E-O, I-C valve adjustment method, usually when I am still building the engine, with the intake manifold off the engine, looking at the lifter bodies move. But, if you slack all the valves off, and look at the push rods as they move, the E-O, I-C can be used.

The actual lifter adjusts the same as a non-bleeder, you just have to be more aware to the sensitivity of the bleed down. All the ones I have ever done, once they are set right, the engine sounds a lot like a solid lifter small block Corvette engine.



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4011

Reg: 12-29-02
02-12-18 10:32 PM - Post#2724216    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

The Crane anti-pump up lifters aren't advertised as being fast bleed down lifters. Crane info describe them as normal lifters with precision oil valving/metering. The fast bleed down lifters that reduce the duration at idle are called Crane High Intensity lifters. Still, maybe those ant-pump up lifters do bleed down faster than most lifters.

What is your definition of loose and tight? Tight is with no clearance but everything still loose so it can be moved around, right?

Did you back off the rocker and then wait for the lifter spring to return the plunger to the top? If not, then try waiting at least a minute with the rocker loose before trying to set it again. If you're using heavy weight oil (like 10W40 or 20W40) or the engine is quite cold then wait at least 2 minutes.

Personally, when adjusting hydraulic valves I like grabbing the valve end of the rocker between my thumb and index finger and lifting the rocker to take the slack out of the pushrod ends. Then, I alternate between tightening the nut and tapping on the rocker right above the valve. Doing it this way, there is a click until the slack is taken out and at that point I go the extra 1/2 turn or whatever is recommended by the cam manufacturer. I've found other methods like spinning the pushrod or lifting the pushrod up and down to be less deterministic.

Overall, maybe it'd be easier to set the valves with the engine running due to those lifters. If you have an old set of valve covers then cut a rectangle hole above the rocker studs and use them to adjust while running. It's fairly easy. Back off each rocker until it starts to tick and then tighten again until the tick is gone plus the extra 1/2 turn or whatever the cam manufacturer recommends.



 
Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-13-18 08:22 AM - Post#2724240    
    In response to 65_Impala

When I say loose, I mean grab the push rod and shake it up and down loose. I don't have a feeler gauge thick enough to measure how loose they magically became. When I got oil pressure up, they got so tight the push rods wouldn't even spin (part my fault I'm sure since I certainly didn't wait long enough for the plunger to come up before adjusting again) but as it is right now the rockers have been completely free and loose since Sunday. I just didn't have the time yesterday to work on it so hopefully tonight I can see what's going on. I'll also be calling Crane to get their opinion on this whole ordeal.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4776

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
02-13-18 08:34 AM - Post#2724244    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

Maybe the cam is worn down? I had Crane fast bleed on my SBC but switched to Rhodes for a more consistent bleed.



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4011

Reg: 12-29-02
02-13-18 12:43 PM - Post#2724270    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

As you turn the engine to adjust a lifter, you will stop with another valve or valves held open. It the lifters you have bleed down more than normal they will be compressed to the bottom of the plunger movement and appear to be loose when you rotate the engine further.

There has to be a bad or multiple bad lifters if you set them again and they still don't work while the engine is running with oil pressure.




 
Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-13-18 02:03 PM - Post#2724280    
    In response to 65_Impala

I spoke with someone on the crane tech line and they told me it sounds like something has jammed the check ball in the lifters like there is something in my oil (that was just changed by the way) that caused the issue. I fail to see how that is remotely possible. And if they're that sensitive then crap. I'm more than half tempted to just swap to a mechanical flat tappet and call it a day with the hydraulics.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 
62chevy427 
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2113
62chevy427
Loc: laurens sc
Reg: 04-13-06
02-13-18 05:23 PM - Post#2724299    
    In response to grumpyvette

i have run a set of fast bleed down lifters in my 427 for years. i build the enigine (a 427) in the late 70s. has about 40k miles on it. never have had a problem. have not adjusted them in many years.
i did the initial adjustment cold and the a little later adjusted them hot,running.

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Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-13-18 08:52 PM - Post#2724316    
    In response to 62chevy427

Welp it would appear that one of the lifters failed and ejected the check ball. Which met my cam. Which became a bad day. So there's that. Thanks for the input everyone. Solid cam it is now it would appear.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4776

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
02-16-18 06:40 AM - Post#2724556    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

How does a check ball come out of the lifter inside the engine? Fast bleed lifter are adjusted against the internal spring only. Rotate engine to the flat part of the cam on lifter. Hand tighten rocker while rotating pushrod between your fingers until slight resistance is felt. That point is 0. Repeat all lifter the same. When done, go back and add 1/2 turn to all and lock the set screw to the nut and you are done.



 
Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-16-18 08:29 AM - Post#2724572    
    In response to models916

They are the Crane anti-pump up lifters. Crane makes no indication whatsoever that these are "Fast Bleed" lifters like they do with their high intensity lifters. They just claim they are precision metered. And honestly, I have no earthly idea how it came out, but it certainly did. I'm not 100% sure if that's what wiped out my cam, but I'm pretty sure it definitely didn't help.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4011

Reg: 12-29-02
02-16-18 10:44 AM - Post#2724596    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

I was going to ask the same question on how a check ball got out. Did the bottom of the lifter wear right through? Was the plunger and clip and pushrod was still in place at the top of the lifter? Where did you find the ball?



 
Junkyardwarrior 
Contributor
Posts: 321

Loc: Yuma AZ
Reg: 02-25-15
02-16-18 11:28 AM - Post#2724601    
    In response to 65_Impala

Not entirely sure. The plunger and push rod were in place but the clip was out wrapped around the rod. The ball was on my magnetic drain plug in my oil pan.

"8 cylinders of why the f&@% not" - me


 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4776

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
02-19-18 09:26 AM - Post#2724857    
    In response to Junkyardwarrior

Well that explains it.



 




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