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Username Post: serpentine alignment problem        (Topic#349544)
C10again 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 58

Loc: Nor Cal
Reg: 03-08-13
02-06-18 06:34 PM - Post#2723588    

Recently purchased an 88 Silverado K2500 with 350 TBI. Not running real good but was clean and the price was right. It had not been registered or used on the street since 2007. Replaced the old gas in it and put a new fuel pump and filter on. Then I started diagnosing problems relating to having it smogged. It threw the belt while I was driving it and I found it missing a lot of the bolts attaching the accessory mounts to the heads, etc. Replaced those and now find that my alternator pulley is a bit out of line with the rest of the accessories. My question is; does the alternator have enough room on the pulley shaft to move the pulley out about a 1/4 inch or so? Does this seem like a good way to fix the problem? Thanks for your considered answers.



 
Low priced Genuine GM Auto Parts
rockfangd 
"4th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2307

Age: 31
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
02-06-18 06:51 PM - Post#2723592    
    In response to C10again

can you post a picture of the area.
Want to see if it is the wrong alternator or a mounting issue

Old School GM fan FOREVER


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 28509
someotherguy
Age: 47
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
02-07-18 06:54 AM - Post#2723625    
    In response to C10again

The early trucks had a stamped metal accessory drive bracket that was very prone to breakage. They generally crack near the power steering pump, which is of course just below the alternator. It's possible the bolts were out because someone was in the middle of addressing the broken bracket, so check it closely.

An easy swap is the 2-piece aluminum bracket setup from the 90-95 trucks.

Richard

06 Silverado ISS / 06 Silverado SS / 06 300C SRT8


 
bowtie44s 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3844
bowtie44s
Age: 35
Loc: wv
Reg: 08-29-12
02-07-18 08:15 PM - Post#2723712    
    In response to someotherguy

  • someotherguy Said:
The early trucks had a stamped metal accessory drive bracket that was very prone to breakage. They generally crack near the power steering pump, which is of course just below the alternator.



I had to weld mine in two or three places.

Jeff

'88 Chevy K3500, aluminum head roller cam 511in³ stroker 10.5:1 compression, 96 NV 4500, 94-98 grille, 305/70-16 (33x12) BF Goodrich KM2s, 91 cluster swap


 
C10again 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 58

Loc: Nor Cal
Reg: 03-08-13
02-08-18 09:52 AM - Post#2723756    
    In response to bowtie44s

Thank you for your response, and sorry that I did not follow-up quickly. I was trying to make sure that I was addressing the info that you had supplied me with 1st. I did not include a picture with this mostly because I am not very good at doing it successfully. My computer skills are not the best. However, I have done some research, I have most of the GM shop and bench manuals regarding this truck so am 99% sure the alternator is the correct one for my truck. My truck is the camper model with the double battery installation. Also, I have looked for cracks in the steel Alt/P.S. bracket, which is mostly clean and free of grease or other foreign deposits and can't see any obvious cracks either down by the P.S. unit or above by the Alt. Saying that, I wish I had found a crack, just so I knew for certain how to proceed. I had been driving the truck for over two months, just short trips, when the belt broke. The morning it happened the truck was running poorly, due to either the TBI or one of the other systems that still needed diagnosing. I am fairly certain the cat converter needs replacing too. The truck was on the freeway and started losing power and I was not near an off ramp or place where I felt safe in stopping. When I finally reached an off ramp I had to sit through a long red light before I could get to a place to pull over. During this waiting the motor was missing violently and was difficult to keep running. It was during my parking procedure that the belt broke and wrapped itself around the fan and bottom pulley. I then called a tow truck. You say it is an easy job to install the two part aluminum bracket system, but how hard is it going to be to find? I already know that most items for my truck have been deleted from G.M.'s parts system. That includes the attaching bolts and studs that hold the steel bracket on. With the help of a mobile mechanic I was able to find most of the bolts needed. One that I did not find was the stud that attaches the bracket to the head on one side, I have a bolt in it's place. That could not be part of the problem, could it? Since then I have seen a complete used set of attaching bolts for the brackets on both sides of the motor ($60.) on eBay. They may still be available. Anyhow, I guess I am committed to doing the switch of brackets if they can be found? I can't continue my quest to get it ready for smog if it can't run and drive. I have the tools and manuals necessary to diagnose and fix the problems with the other systems involved in making the truck run right and pass smog etc. I have even installed a new smog pump since the belt problem happened. Oh, I can see that the new belt is being forced off as it is leaving the P.S. pulley and goes back up to the alternator and is beginning to fray on the inside edge already. Any other thought will be appreciated of course. I know this is overly long but did not want to forget anything. Thanks for reading it and for your help too!




 
bowtie44s 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3844
bowtie44s
Age: 35
Loc: wv
Reg: 08-29-12
02-08-18 01:04 PM - Post#2723772    
    In response to C10again

I tried to read it but I got dizzy. It would help if you space it into 3 or 4 paragraphs.

Jeff

'88 Chevy K3500, aluminum head roller cam 511in³ stroker 10.5:1 compression, 96 NV 4500, 94-98 grille, 305/70-16 (33x12) BF Goodrich KM2s, 91 cluster swap


 
jktucker92 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 122
jktucker92
Reg: 02-05-17
02-08-18 01:38 PM - Post#2723776    
    In response to bowtie44s

One more thing you should check on your existing system is the power steering pulley. The power steering pulley is a press-fit pulley that can easily be pushed too far onto the shaft. I had a truck that kept throwing belts and I finally realized that the power steering pulley was the culprit. I bought a pulley puller/installer and just pulled the pulley out about 1/4". That fixed the problem.

As far as finding a bracket set, they were once plentiful in the junkyards, but are now getting harder to find. Ideally, you could find a pick a part that has a recent truck to pull the brackets from. That way you could get all the bolts as well as the brackets and be sure you had everything. As I recall, the 4.3L TBI uses the same setup, so you can look for those too. You could also check your local Craigslist for anybody parting out one of these trucks.



 
tardisguy 
Contributor
Posts: 174
tardisguy
Age: 33
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Reg: 09-15-10
02-08-18 01:39 PM - Post#2723777    
    In response to C10again

  • C10again Said:
Thank you for your response, and sorry that I did not follow-up quickly. I was trying to make sure that I was addressing the info that you had supplied me with 1st. I did not include a picture with this mostly because I am not very good at doing it successfully. My computer skills are not the best. However, I have done some research, I have most of the GM shop and bench manuals regarding this truck so am 99% sure the alternator is the correct one for my truck. My truck is the camper model with the double battery installation. Also, I have looked for cracks in the steel Alt/P.S. bracket, which is mostly clean and free of grease or other foreign deposits and can't see any obvious cracks either down by the P.S. unit or above by the Alt.

Saying that, I wish I had found a crack, just so I knew for certain how to proceed. I had been driving the truck for over two months, just short trips, when the belt broke. The morning it happened the truck was running poorly, due to either the TBI or one of the other systems that still needed diagnosing. I am fairly certain the cat converter needs replacing too. The truck was on the freeway and started losing power and I was not near an off ramp or place where I felt safe in stopping. When I finally reached an off ramp I had to sit through a long red light before I could get to a place to pull over. During this waiting the motor was missing violently and was difficult to keep running. It was during my parking procedure that the belt broke and wrapped itself around the fan and bottom pulley. I then called a tow truck.

You say it is an easy job to install the two part aluminum bracket system, but how hard is it going to be to find? I already know that most items for my truck have been deleted from G.M.'s parts system. That includes the attaching bolts and studs that hold the steel bracket on. With the help of a mobile mechanic I was able to find most of the bolts needed. One that I did not find was the stud that attaches the bracket to the head on one side, I have a bolt in it's place. That could not be part of the problem, could it? Since then I have seen a complete used set of attaching bolts for the brackets on both sides of the motor ($60.) on eBay. They may still be available.

Anyhow, I guess I am committed to doing the switch of brackets if they can be found? I can't continue my quest to get it ready for smog if it can't run and drive. I have the tools and manuals necessary to diagnose and fix the problems with the other systems involved in making the truck run right and pass smog etc. I have even installed a new smog pump since the belt problem happened. Oh, I can see that the new belt is being forced off as it is leaving the P.S. pulley and goes back up to the alternator and is beginning to fray on the inside edge already. Any other thought will be appreciated of course. I know this is overly long but did not want to forget anything. Thanks for reading it and for your help too!




spacing added


Andrew
91 Chevy C1500 ext cab, TBI 350, NV4500, 2in suspension lift. (DD)
2012 Mitsu Outlander Sport (DD#2)
86 Chevy MC SS (SOLD)


 
bowtie44s 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3844
bowtie44s
Age: 35
Loc: wv
Reg: 08-29-12
02-08-18 05:11 PM - Post#2723807    
    In response to tardisguy

That is way easier to read.

The steel bracket works fine. It is just prone to cracking. If it is not cracked, that is not your problem.

For the loss of power, check the fuel pressure. It is the most common problem on the TBI trucks.

Jeff

'88 Chevy K3500, aluminum head roller cam 511in³ stroker 10.5:1 compression, 96 NV 4500, 94-98 grille, 305/70-16 (33x12) BF Goodrich KM2s, 91 cluster swap


 
C10again 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 58

Loc: Nor Cal
Reg: 03-08-13
02-12-18 08:50 AM - Post#2724148    
    In response to bowtie44s

To tardisguy, & the other contributors to this thread,

Thank you all for your input. Problem still not resolved. I purchased a puller/installer set, thinking to take the advice and move the power steering pulley on it's shaft. I soon realized that in order to correct the problem the pulley would have to be moved out, not inward and there did not look to be any room left on the shaft to do this.

Examining the situation "again" I am now seeing that the alternator does not sit level and is riding higher in the front thus forcing the belt to come off at the rear of the Power Steering pulley as it is pulled towards the alternator.

Looking at the alternator I can see no adjustment to level it, if in deed it was designed to sit level in the 1st place? Again I can find no cracks on the bracket, either at the top or the bottom end of it.Unless the cracks are so small that they can't be seen without a complete disassembly of all components, etc?

To touch upon the lack and/or loss of power situation; I purchased the truck from a tow company. They would not let me test drive the truck myself but would let me ride along while one of their employees drove, siting insurance issues, etc.

I was told that the truck was hard to start and that the gas peddle needed to be pumped to get it to fire-up. I knew, even with no experience of TBI systems, that this was not correct.

The truck rode smoothly at 65 miles per hour on the freeway with only miner stumbles when increasing speeds etc. Since I had been told that the truck had been non-operational since 2007, I felt that any problems were most likely due to bad fuel, fuel filters, etc.

After buying the truck and paying all fees, but of course not having a smog inspection in order to complete the registration process, I drove it on errands in town, both on the freeway and on surface roads while getting use to the truck and preparing to get it ready for smog inspection.

The more I started and drove it the better it responded all around. Until the day I moved it from the street to the driveway in order to replace some of the worn hoses and missing ones, etc. It would not restart after that.

I pulled the fuel filter and decided that although it looked clean, it was a little hard to blow through. I replaced it. The truck still would not start. If you dumped fuel down the TBI it would begin to start but would not continue to run.

I did a pressure test at the gas line where the fuel filter hooked-up. The pressure was low so the tank was dropped and a new pump installed. The truck started and ran as it did before it stopped on me.

I have a brand new OBD 1&2 scan tool, an infrared laser to check temperature at the catalytic converter, and most all other tools necessary to test and diagnose issues. This includes the GM manuals and step charts for my truck.

So, all I need to do is decide how to proceed with the serpentine belt issue and I could be getting closer to driving this dent free, lifted 4x4 with 12000 lb Ramsey winch and massive Ramsey bumper. plus brand new tires all around.

Anyone with ideas about the alternator not sitting level, thus pulling the belt to the rear of the power steering pump pulley until it is pulled all the way off of it, pleas chime in. Thanks!



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3949

Reg: 12-29-02
02-12-18 10:10 AM - Post#2724156    
    In response to C10again

One side of the main alternator mount bolt bosses might have a sleeve through the bracket that the bolt goes through. I'm not sure on your bracket but it's possible. Give it a look. The alternator can flop around out of alignment when that sleeves is missing.



 
C10again 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 58

Loc: Nor Cal
Reg: 03-08-13
02-12-18 06:02 PM - Post#2724195    
    In response to 65_Impala

Thanks, I will check that in the morning.



 
TodMet 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 70
TodMet
Age: 50
Loc: Port Orchard
Reg: 09-22-16
02-12-18 11:32 PM - Post#2724224    
    In response to C10again

I replaced my power steering pump today and when I put it back on and started it it threw the belt off.
My problem was the wrong bolt was on the bottom without the spacer looking bolt they were switched and this was a New AC Delco, guess the guy had a hangover that day. The bracket was not even and the PS was tilted a bit, just enough to throw the belt.
I didn't take pic's but found these to show what I mean.
First pic is the bracket and the 2nd is the spacer bolt on the bottom on the right side of the photo.



Just something else to look for.
I was wondering why it was so hard to get the 3 front bolts to line up and tightened down, when I put it back the correct way everything was really easy.


Tod
1990 K2500 Chevy Cheyenne 5.7 TBI


Edited by TodMet on 02-12-18 11:37 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
C10again 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 58

Loc: Nor Cal
Reg: 03-08-13
02-13-18 09:16 AM - Post#2724258    
    In response to TodMet

THANK YOU TOD!

Finally something makes sense. I have no idea why but when I got the truck and started looking it over closely I began to notice that a lot of the accessories were missing some of their bolts. They had enough to hold them on but that is all. Even the ground strap was not connected from block to frame, etc. This goes double for the bracket in question here.

I tried to get bolts from the GM dealer but they are no longer carried and not available. So, I tried to find bolts to fit and got most of the holes filled with something. There is a place on the head where it is supposed to be held on by a stud and I could not find one so used a bolt instead.

I know that some models had a brace running from the back of the alternator to the intake manifold,
mine has the holes in the correct location but the brace is missing also.

A couple of months ago I noticed a complete set of the attaching bolts, used, on eBay for $60.00. I sure wish I had bought them. I will try to see if I can find a complete set and disassemble the whole set-up and reinstall it.

I know now, from what you said, that this is critical. Wish me luck in my search. Thanks so much for your input!



 
C10again 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 58

Loc: Nor Cal
Reg: 03-08-13
02-14-18 08:34 AM - Post#2724360    
    In response to C10again

Update to the above--

Late last night I found all of the needed fasteners on eBay. I had noticed these items for sale on eBay some weeks ago but decided not to purchase at the time.

Luckily, the used fasteners had not been sold as yet. I am hoping that these are indeed the right fasteners for my application, since they were only listed as, "complete set of bolts, studs, nuts, washers, and braces for a 305-350 small block Chevy, for installing the accessory brackets."

There was a very good picture showing all items. They look to be correct. Now I face making sure that I can get them into the right places.

I do have the 1988 GM Truck Manual, and with all Supplements included also. There are some very good diagrams showing the bolts and other fastenings. Hope that is enough for my old eyes.

I will post again after the set arrives and I have taken it all apart and reinstalled it correctly.


Thanks again to all who have contributed to addressing my serpentine belt issues, etc



 
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