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Username Post: Cam Gear noise        (Topic#349511)
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
02-05-18 11:13 AM - Post#2723433    

I recently had the timing gears replaced in my 53 with a power glide. the engine sounds fine at idle but as I rev it up it sounds like a rubbing noise, as the rpm increase the noise goes away. The only thing I can think of is the cam was not pressed on with the right clearance between the gear and the thrust plate,or I have also read where the cam needs to be aligned with the crank shaft with thrust plate gaskets. I am trying to figure out what may be wrong before it has to be tore down again.



 

Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1258

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
02-05-18 02:09 PM - Post#2723446    
    In response to garykrig

Welcome to CT. Did this noise start after the work was done?



 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1036
cbmkr56
Age: 62
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
02-05-18 06:17 PM - Post#2723468    
    In response to garykrig

I answered this question early in another thread.



 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1258

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
02-05-18 06:34 PM - Post#2723470    
    In response to cbmkr56

Didn't see that one, doesn't mean you couldn't answer me!



Edited by Shepherd on 02-05-18 06:37 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bobt 
Contributor
Posts: 145

Loc: colonial heights va
Reg: 06-28-14
02-06-18 04:30 AM - Post#2723497    
    In response to garykrig

Did you try removing the fan belt and running the engine to see if the noise is still there? bobt



 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
02-06-18 06:40 AM - Post#2723506    
    In response to bobt

Yes I ran it without the belts. I am positive it is the cam gear. I am going to pull the fuel pump tonight to see if and how much it moves, Thank You



 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
02-06-18 06:55 AM - Post#2723507    
    In response to Shepherd

Yes, the noise started after the work was done. Some teeth came off the old fiber gear. I asked the mechanic yesterday if he checked the alignment of the crankshaft and the thrust plate, his reply was he checked it after the gears were installed. I am pretty certain that is where the problem is.



 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18383
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
02-06-18 07:09 AM - Post#2723508    
    In response to garykrig

How did he clean up the loose tooth material?

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
02-07-18 06:04 AM - Post#2723609    
    In response to 2blu52

Pan was removed and everything was cleaned up.



 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18383
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
02-07-18 06:07 AM - Post#2723611    
    In response to garykrig

  • garykrig Said:
Pan was removed and everything was cleaned up
Good!


"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
Gene_Schneider 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 12121

Loc: Wisconsin..USA
Reg: 09-27-02
02-09-18 08:32 AM - Post#2723865    
    In response to 2blu52

If the later style thrust plate (with the spacer ring) was used adding gaskets is not necessary. Also adding gaskets (or not) will ot cause the gears to rub on anything.
Was the steel gear replaced? If not the noise could be coming from it having worn teeth. The steeth get a wear pattern from the old fiber gear.
Also if the front mount plate was not removed the oil slot on the back of the plate may be plugged with sludge (usually is that is why original gear fails). When it is plugged the timing gears get no lubrication.

ChevGene 1934 Master sedan 1939 Master DeLuxe Town Sedan 1950 Styline DeLuxe Power Glide 1957 Nomad 283 PG 1963 Corvair Convertible


 
Rustchips 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1104
Rustchips
Age: 81
Loc: DFW Texas
Reg: 02-24-05
02-09-18 12:27 PM - Post#2723885    
    In response to Gene_Schneider

.
Also if the front mount plate was not removed the oil slot on the back of the plate may be plugged with sludge (usually is that is why original gear fails). When it is plugged the timing gears get no lubrication.


Good Point

1928 Chevy Coupe
1942 Chevy Special Deluxe Coupe
1955 Chevy Bel Air HTP
1970 El Camino
1990 F##d Mustang Convertible

Life is like a roll of toilet paper the nearer the end the faster it goes.


 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
02-11-18 08:39 PM - Post#2724120    
    In response to Gene_Schneider

Both gears are new. I pulled the fuel pump this morning and tried to move the cam, it would not move. I told the mechanic to check to make sure nothing was plugged because I suspected lack of lubrication may have caused the problem. I am quite he did not check behind the plate.



 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
03-08-18 08:32 AM - Post#2726862    
    In response to garykrig

I took my car back in the other day after running their miracle additive in my oil to quite down the noise. They pulled the timing gear cover and found out it was not getting any oil, the oil line is plugged. They don't recall me telling them to make sure the oil line wasn't plugged. I have always thought part of fixing something was finding out why it failed.
I regret not fixing the car myself but I am at my winter home and not set up very well to work on it. I probably will still pull it home and repair it myself.
So far this highly recommended shop has chipped the paint on the top of the fender by pushing the hood up too high, scratched the paint on the firewall pulling the engine, bent up the valve cover by wrapping chain over it to pull the engine out. Now they have broke the nozzle off that oils the timing gear.
I think it's time to cut my losses and get my AACA Senior car out of there.




 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18383
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
03-08-18 09:06 AM - Post#2726866    
    In response to garykrig

I agree, time to move on. The problem then becomes where too, there are very few true mechanics and machinists out there now. Our local machine shop is run by a fellow who had been a parts man for a competing parts house for years. When I had the engine rebuilt in my 38 in 1951 the mechanic there said he would work on stove bolts for free if he could find a way to make a living otherwise.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27372
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
03-08-18 11:15 AM - Post#2726893    
    In response to garykrig

It could help the rest of us if you would share the name and address of this "highly recommended" shop. The forum rules may not allow criticizing vendors in the tech forums. For that reason, there is a "Vendor Stories" forum way down at the bottom of the forum list under "Automotive General". I know that the posting of negative comments is allowed in that one.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
03-13-18 07:08 AM - Post#2727443    
    In response to raycow

I pulled the back plate to check to see if the groove was plugged, it was clear. There is no hole or anything around the cam or bushing. Does the timing gear just get lubed by oil that seeps out of the end of the cam bushing? The car was driven about 200 miles after the new gears were put in I would think if they were not getting oil they be chewed up but they look fine.



 
Keith_Knox 
Moderator and "16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 5831
Keith_Knox
Age: 76
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
03-13-18 07:40 AM - Post#2727449    
    In response to garykrig



Attachment: Front_Mount_3_-_Copy.jpg (273.31 KB) 4 View(s)


Does your front plate have the nozzle at the 12 o'clock position above the crankshaft hole?


1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010. Stock with rebuilt 52 216 installed May 1966.
1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup, stock. Purchased 11/18/17.
1962 Ranchero Purchased 4/2017 221 V8 Automatic.
2013 F150 Crew Cab


 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
03-13-18 11:40 AM - Post#2727476    
    In response to Keith_Knox

Yes the nozzle is above the crank. I believe it is a 54 block. it is a powerglide.



 
Keith_Knox 
Moderator and "16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 5831
Keith_Knox
Age: 76
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
03-13-18 12:28 PM - Post#2727479    
    In response to garykrig

Obvious question, is it open?

1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010. Stock with rebuilt 52 216 installed May 1966.
1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup, stock. Purchased 11/18/17.
1962 Ranchero Purchased 4/2017 221 V8 Automatic.
2013 F150 Crew Cab


 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
03-13-18 02:59 PM - Post#2727492    
    In response to Keith_Knox

Yes the nozzle and the groove are open. I am wondering how the oil comes out of the cam, Does it just push out around the cam bearing because there don't appear to a hole there?



 
Rustchips 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1104
Rustchips
Age: 81
Loc: DFW Texas
Reg: 02-24-05
03-14-18 06:39 AM - Post#2727557    
    In response to garykrig

If they changed the cam bearings. I hope they got the holes in the bearing and the block lined up properly.
Cleon

1928 Chevy Coupe
1942 Chevy Special Deluxe Coupe
1955 Chevy Bel Air HTP
1970 El Camino
1990 F##d Mustang Convertible

Life is like a roll of toilet paper the nearer the end the faster it goes.


 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
03-14-18 10:39 AM - Post#2727588    
    In response to Rustchips

No bearings were changed, just new cam gears were put in.



 
garykrig 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 11

Reg: 02-05-18
03-29-18 08:36 AM - Post#2729319    
    In response to garykrig

I checked the backlash on my cam gears and there wasn't any clearance, It is obvious this was not checked when the gears were installed the first time. I have found out they used to make an undersize gear, are there any available any where or is there another option?



 
Kyle G. 
Poster
Posts: 26

Age: 22
Loc: Delanco, New Jersey
Reg: 11-29-15
03-30-18 11:19 PM - Post#2729444    
    In response to garykrig

I don't mean to butt in, but short annectdotes are fun.

When I tore down my 1960 235 with 2000 miles on it after the engine developed a rod knock from copper flakes worn off of undersized main bearings, I discovered the aluminum timing gear I heat shrunk on to the camshaft had come completely loose and was free to slide back and forth. Although in practice, I think the angle of the crank gear kept the cam gear pushed against the thrust plate which prevented any noise from giving it away.

The oil nozzle is supplied low pressure oil squirting out of the front of the cam bearing. The bearing shell should have a little groove cut into it to direct oil around 3/4 of the circumference of the bearing towards the front of the block.

1950 Chevy Styleline Deluxe
1946 Willys CJ-2A


Edited by Kyle G. on 03-30-18 11:36 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

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