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Username Post: 59 Impala Control Arms        (Topic#349463)
ozzie7 
Poster
Posts: 85
ozzie7
Loc: Central Ohio
Reg: 03-11-16
02-02-18 10:05 AM - Post#2723076    

Looks like I could use some upper control arm bushings so I might as well upgrade both upper and lower control arms.
I think I can see negative camber probably due to the bad bushings.
I found an aftermarket setup that (supposedly) gives up to 17 degrees of adjustment on the camber.
What do you guys think or recommend?

http://www.helixsuspension.com/catalog/Control-Arm...



Edited by ozzie7 on 02-12-18 07:49 AM. Reason for edit: Corrected description of problem from positive camber to negative

 
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raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27372
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
02-02-18 07:08 PM - Post#2723147    
    In response to ozzie7

I am totally in favor of a system that provides more camber adjustment, but I didn't see anything about that on the page you linked. Did you find that info somewhere else?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Hugomiller 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 112
Hugomiller
Age: 67
Loc: Florida and UK
Reg: 05-02-17
02-03-18 04:04 PM - Post#2723212    
    In response to raycow

I just fitted a pair of Global West upper arms. They give about 5 degrees of caster (not camber - which is done by shims) which make the steering more 'self-centering'. I didn't change the bottom arms as there was nothing to be gained by it - the change is in the top arms alone.
After doing the mod, I found that you can achieve a similar result by just fitting a modified shaft to the original top arm, which sets it further back - can't remember who sells them though.
I do have a kit of Dela-Lum bottom arm bushings and re-inforcing brackets left over which I didn't use, if anyone wants to make me an offer - but they do require modification (and some welding) of the bottom arms, as they are a much stronger design.



 
ozzie7 
Poster
Posts: 85
ozzie7
Loc: Central Ohio
Reg: 03-11-16
02-03-18 05:38 PM - Post#2723221    
    In response to raycow

  • raycow Said:
I am totally in favor of a system that provides more camber adjustment, but I didn't see anything about that on the page you linked. Did you find that info somewhere else?

Ray



I called and talked to probably a sales rep and specifically asked about the camber adjustment capability.
He put me on hold and supposedly talked to a tech support guy and then gave me the 17 degree number.
That sounds like a lot of adjustability to me and I really wanted to talk directly to the tech guy about how it's done.
But the sales guy was focused on making a sale.
He did give a better price of $515 delivered.
I first need to get more educated from you guys on the best way to go.

And thanks Hugo... I need all the info I can get.



 
ozzie7 
Poster
Posts: 85
ozzie7
Loc: Central Ohio
Reg: 03-11-16
02-03-18 06:08 PM - Post#2723224    
    In response to ozzie7

The negative camber is visible (at least to me) in these pics.
Edit:I corrected my post from originally saying it has too much positive camber to negative.
Because the top of the wheel is inward too far.
What I need is more positive camber to bring the top of the wheel outward.
The previous owner installed 2" drop spindles and shortened springs in the rear to lower the car.
The spindles "shouldn't" be a factor with the camber adjustment I would think.
But I don't know the specifics on the spindles... which were installed in 2005.







 
Hugomiller 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 112
Hugomiller
Age: 67
Loc: Florida and UK
Reg: 05-02-17
02-03-18 07:05 PM - Post#2723231    
    In response to ozzie7

Camber is adjustable on any system - even stock - by means of shims. In fact I guess you would adjust the caster the same way - just shim the top arm so it points forwards or backwards a bit. The Global West top arms have an additional feature in that you can flip over the shaft that holds the upper arm to the body and alter the caster (or camber - I've confused myself now!) - it is eccentric but I believe that is to cater for lowered suspension. I haven't had mine set up yet, as not many places can do the wheel alignment and steering geometry on these cars (mine's a 1960) as the rear wheels are partly obscured by the bodywork. I just bolted it all together and it is a vast improvement (but the ball joints were shot also which can't have helped). It's weird - somebody has done a pretty thorough body-off restoration on the car but they don't seem to have touched the front suspension - one of the tie rods was bent, one wheel stud sheared off (& lug nut missing!) and all the ball joints and bushings were really nasty.
If I wanted advice on this complex subject I would call Global West - they seem to have it all covered.



 
stanski 
Poster
Posts: 55

Reg: 05-05-16
02-03-18 07:07 PM - Post#2723233    
    In response to ozzie7

These give extra 2 degrees if that's enough.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/1958-64-Chevy-Inner...



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27372
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
02-03-18 10:17 PM - Post#2723252    
    In response to Hugomiller

  • Hugomiller Said:
Camber is adjustable on any system - even stock - by means of shims....


You are absolutely correct, and positive camber is increased by REMOVING shims. When all of the shims are gone, what are you expected to do then?

I am aware of offset control arm shafts, and those could definitely increase positive camber if they were made properly. The Speedway shafts linked to don't say a word about camber, and the only review which mentions any specifics indicates that they increase caster.

So back to my original problem, which is basically the same as ozzie7 has- what bolt-on options are available in the aftermarket to increase positive camber?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
cowfarmer350 
Senior Member
Posts: 1186

Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 02-03-01
02-04-18 03:43 AM - Post#2723264    
    In response to raycow

Ray what Hugo said about the Global West upper a-arms is correct, they have an offset shaft , one way gives close to stock camber and when you remove the shaft and flip it , it will give it more positive camber , I am just working through this because I brought a set of the GW arms and they were delivered already in the offset setting, which I found is too much for my car , so I have to put them to the stock position,

As for the extra caster , it's built into the arm



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27372
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
02-04-18 06:48 PM - Post#2723350    
    In response to cowfarmer350

Thank you, cowfarmer. I will check out Global West then.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4774

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
02-05-18 08:16 AM - Post#2723399    
    In response to raycow

CPP and advertiser here also sell those in the generic form.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-UPPER-LOWER-T UBULAR-C...

They are compatible even thou not listed as so. That chart is Ebay generated wrong.
These arms are the same no matter where you order them from. Chinese factory continued production on these as generic brand when they finished the Global West run.



 
wings59 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2307
wings59
Loc: Bakersfield Ca
Reg: 01-30-05
02-07-18 11:53 PM - Post#2723717    
    In response to models916

"This part is not compatible with 1959 Chevrolet Impala."
Don't want to hijack this thread but I was ready to order uppers from CPP Friday and the part number I got for the uppers 58-64 TCAUKB.
Thought I would hold off and see there is more replies to this thread, maybe CPP vs others.

Larry

59 Impala Sport Coupe

36 Dodge Street rod..........owned 27 years






 
ozzie7 
Poster
Posts: 85
ozzie7
Loc: Central Ohio
Reg: 03-11-16
02-08-18 08:18 AM - Post#2723737    
    In response to wings59

Thanks for the heads up Larry.
Here's another set on e-bay that comes up compatible with a 59 for $305.

59 Impala Control Arms

And also these with adjustable ride height for $339.

59 Impala Control Arms Adjustable Height

But after further review... I can't see where the camber is adjustable as much as I would like.

I found these below... they are FAR more pricey... BUT they look very adjustable.
Update 2-8-18:I Just saw the review... it didn't fit the buyers car.

59 Impala Adjustable Upper Control Arms

I'll be doing more searching and welcome more ideas from folks that have done this.



 
wings59 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2307
wings59
Loc: Bakersfield Ca
Reg: 01-30-05
02-08-18 09:43 AM - Post#2723747    
    In response to ozzie7

Thanks for the info Ozzie, I will check them out. I considered CPP because I've bought from them before, been to there store several times and haven't had any problems with returns or exchanges. I do like the GW uppers.
Thursday I took my car to the old time alignment shop to have it checked out. Front end new recently but back bushing worn badly. I'll replace those first, see if that helps then adress the control arms again.
Beautiful 59 you have.

Larry

59 Impala Sport Coupe

36 Dodge Street rod..........owned 27 years






 
ozzie7 
Poster
Posts: 85
ozzie7
Loc: Central Ohio
Reg: 03-11-16
02-09-18 03:54 PM - Post#2723896    
    In response to wings59

I looked through the CPP site.
Not sure I can afford what they have.
I couldn't really find much detail about them.
Are they special in some way?

Larry you are right... the car is a beaut.
I still find it a little hard to believe that it's sitting in my garage... I've only had it for 3 weeks.
Been obsessing about having a 59 for many years.
She's a California girl... original rust free body, floors, trunk etc.
I'm pretty sure she does NOT like Ohio and the sight of snow.
Has a few gremlins... probably spite from having her transported here.





 
ozzie7 
Poster
Posts: 85
ozzie7
Loc: Central Ohio
Reg: 03-11-16
02-10-18 01:54 PM - Post#2723970    
    In response to models916

_________________________ __________________
Models916 post:
(CPP and advertiser here also sell those in the generic form.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-UPPER-LOWER-T UBULAR-C...

They are compatible even thou not listed as so. That chart is Ebay generated wrong.
These arms are the same no matter where you order them from. Chinese factory continued production on these as generic brand when they finished the Global West run.)

_________________________ __________________

Hey Mike.... The GW arms have a lot of great features listed on the site.

How do the generic ones you mention compare feature wise?
The other ones I'm finding have descriptions/specs that seem a little general and they look different, notably where the bump stop mounts.
The one you have the link to mentions it's a Helix brand, and the Helix features aren't the same as the GW arms and the CPP arms have no description.

Have you seen some generics that have the same description/features as the GW arms?




 
YOUNG57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1025

Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 12-06-10
02-11-18 10:01 PM - Post#2724129    
    In response to ozzie7

You should start by replacing all the worn parts to get it back to specs before replacing expensive control arms and pivot shafts. You may not need them.

Most of these Chevys made after 1957 were made to have power steering and so had enough caster built in to self-center with power steering, they were just shimmed different with more or less caster depending on power steering or not.

A word about caster and camber. In these Chevy with upper control arms with pivot shaft inboard of the frame mount the camber and caster are relayed in that they are tied to each other. If you remove an equal amount of shims from both bolts you will increase camber and vice versa. If you remove a shim from the front bolt and add it to the rear bolt you will add caster and vice versa. If you just remove a shim from the front bolt and nothing else you will add camber and caster and vice versa.




 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4774

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
02-12-18 05:15 AM - Post#2724136    
    In response to YOUNG57

The arms are the same. I think they just put them in a different box. CPP was selling them a while back. Maybe ran out.

http://www.classicperform.com/Store2/Suspension/58...




 
wings59 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2307
wings59
Loc: Bakersfield Ca
Reg: 01-30-05
02-12-18 11:53 PM - Post#2724222    
    In response to models916

Models that link does state they are USA made and provide up to 5 Degree caster. The number 6774ETAK is for Camaro and Nova although description is the same. One link above stated made in China and the adjustable CA's states made by SPC and may not be legal in Calif. and some other states. An acquaintance in town has adjustable upper and lowers on his 59. He'll let me know if they are SPC after he checks his build sheet.
Ozzie, I'm replacing back bushing first and then will get back on UCA's. I really like the adjustable and the price is less than $40. more than CPP.
CPP 5864TCAUKB
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-64-CHEVY-IMP ALA-BELA...


Attachment: 59_nationals_004.JPG (87.7 KB) 12 View(s)




Larry

59 Impala Sport Coupe

36 Dodge Street rod..........owned 27 years






 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4774

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
02-13-18 08:22 AM - Post#2724239    
    In response to wings59

They and the Global West are made in China! So are most of the other brands with a lower price tag.
I just ordered a pair of these to get more adjustability on my 62. These are supposed to be made in the USA.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPS-94360




 
wings59 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2307
wings59
Loc: Bakersfield Ca
Reg: 01-30-05
02-13-18 09:59 AM - Post#2724255    
    In response to models916

I like those adjustable. Part number for 59, https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sps-94355/appli ...

Larry

59 Impala Sport Coupe

36 Dodge Street rod..........owned 27 years






 
ozzie7 
Poster
Posts: 85
ozzie7
Loc: Central Ohio
Reg: 03-11-16
02-14-18 07:24 AM - Post#2724350    
    In response to wings59

Those ones at Summit are the ones I linked to earlier in this thread.

The one review said they didn't fit.... but he didn't say what car he was installing it on.

On the overview tab it says:
"...Provides ±3° of caster and ±3° of camber compared to the OE arm."

I might just have to give them a call since it looks like they should be able to be adjusted more than that.

Larry... that's a nice looking ride you got there... I really like the colors inside and out.



 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4774

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
02-15-18 09:42 AM - Post#2724474    
    In response to ozzie7

I talked to the manufacturer. 60 number is incorrectly listed as fitting the B body Chevy. It is only for the Corvette. The 55 number is the correct version for 58-64 B body. He said the 55 comes with a more modern ball joint and spacer for stock ride height (4 bolt instead of 3 bolt). With that new ball joint you can additionally add an adjustable A body upper ball joint for more caster and camber to compensate for the frame sag. I returned mine and am having the 55 version shipped. The fit on the 60 if you have then is the spacing on the cross shaft bolt holes. The arm is the same but with the 3 bolt joint. You can file the holes 1/8 on each end for a correct fit.



Edited by models916 on 02-15-18 09:44 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Hugomiller 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 112
Hugomiller
Age: 67
Loc: Florida and UK
Reg: 05-02-17
02-15-18 12:39 PM - Post#2724487    
    In response to models916

I seem to recall the Global West arms were a lot more expensive than some of those linked to on here. They do, however, come with rather nice DelaLum bushings, which are a kind of aluminium with a sort of plastic sleeve (I'm sure the materials have much more technical names than that!). I also ordered a set of DeLaLum bushings for the lower arms, but fitting those entailed welding a couple of small brace pieces (supplied with the kit) to re-inforce the lower arm. This seemed a lot of work for mere road use (especially as I don't do any welding), so I fitted polyurethane bushings instead. If anybody wants a DeLaLum lower arm bushing kit I have one for sale! Those Chinese arms on eBay look remarkably similar to the Global West ones, but I have to say GW quality is first class.



 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4774

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
02-16-18 06:18 AM - Post#2724555    
    In response to Hugomiller

The Ebay arms have those bushings like the GW. SPC arms offer that bushing as an add on option.



 
cowfarmer350 
Senior Member
Posts: 1186

Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 02-03-01
02-16-18 11:40 AM - Post#2724602    
    In response to models916

  • models916 Said:
CPP and advertiser here also sell those in the generic form.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-UPPER-LOWER-T UBULAR-C...

They are compatible even thou not listed as so. That chart is Ebay generated wrong.
These arms are the same no matter where you order them from. Chinese factory continued production on these as generic brand when they finished the Global West run.



All the Global West arms are made in San Bernardino CA. , Those other brand arms look similar but they are not the same



 
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