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Username Post: Electric Cutoff Switch        (Topic#348937)
50sChevys 
"16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2101
50sChevys
Age: 83
Loc: Central Texas
Reg: 03-23-02
12-31-17 03:27 PM - Post#2719560    

A short in your electrical system can catch your ride on fire while your at work or sleeping or driving down the road for that matter. Maybe even worse, it can be fired up and stolen in a flash. There's a simple, effective and inexpensive way to prevent either of these from happening. I've installed more than one of these and doing so now on my '50. Can't believe I bought this unit in 2007 to install at that time, but set it aside to restore a '57 Buick Riviera first. Then sold my shop deciding to retire, but called upon to help my old friends at EZELL Aviation restore WWII fighters. All this time, I've been removing the negative cable off the battery to secure the car...kept forgetting I had this unit still in the box. Well, after all this time, I saw it the other day up on the shelf and being off until after New Year's Day was a great time in install it. So, I am in the process of finishing it up now and everything is done except running the 3 wires from the toggle switch to the solenoid through a protective sheath which I'm waiting on from UPS. That won't take 30 minutes and I'll be done. Took a few pictures along the way and recommend you think about installing one to secure your pride and joy. My battery is in the trunk area.

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/247955 8...


50s Chevys http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/245196 4...


 

2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18428
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
12-31-17 03:46 PM - Post#2719564    
    In response to 50sChevys

Very neat, I did not know there was a kit available.
With 2blu I just used a green knob battery connector and disconnected it any time the car was parked. My wiring was getting pretty shabby and I always disconnected the battery any time the car was in the garage and unmanned.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
12-31-17 04:27 PM - Post#2719572    
    In response to 2blu52

Great, sure looks like a Ford starter solenoid.



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27470
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-31-17 04:56 PM - Post#2719576    
    In response to Shepherd

  • Shepherd Said:
Great, sure looks like a Ford starter solenoid.


It does look similar externally, but I suspect, or at least hope, that it is designed for continuous duty, which the Ford solenoid is not.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1290

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
12-31-17 06:27 PM - Post#2719583    
    In response to raycow

Ray, yeh, it better be!



 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18428
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
12-31-17 06:32 PM - Post#2719585    
    In response to raycow

  • raycow Said:
  • Shepherd Said:
Great, sure looks like a Ford starter solenoid.


It does look similar externally, but I suspect, or at least hope, that it is designed for continuous duty, which the Ford solenoid is not.

Ray


Early 80s I worked as a counter man in parts house, we sold Ford solenoid to a lot of people who were putting light bars on their 4x4s and I do not recall that there were any problems with the Ford product.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
50sChevys 
"16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2101
50sChevys
Age: 83
Loc: Central Texas
Reg: 03-23-02
12-31-17 06:44 PM - Post#2719588    
    In response to 2blu52

Hardly a Ford solenoid...

http://www.hotronicsproducts.com/MBD150.pdf

50s Chevys http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/245196 4...


 
Jim Streib 
Senior Member
Posts: 452
Jim Streib
Loc: Saint Louis
Reg: 03-20-03
01-01-18 01:40 AM - Post#2719616    
    In response to Shepherd

  • 50sChevys Said:
A short in your electrical system can catch your ride on fire while your at work or sleeping or driving down the road for that matter. Maybe even worse, it can be fired up and stolen in a flash. There's a simple, effective and inexpensive way to prevent either of these from happening.



While a short in an electrical system is never desired, the cutoff solenoid can give one a false sense of security. If the cutoff switch is off, then power is not coming out of it and then into any wiring connected past it and then if a short were to occur past the switch, then no damage will occur which is good BUT if there is a short past the switch and then the switch is turned on, damage will occur to things and depending on the quality of the switch, when the contact close they might weld themselves together to where when a secondary signal is sent to the cutoff switch to turn it off and stop the flow of power it doesn't disconnect.
Another false sense of protection also occurs as people don't realize that before the cutoff switch this section is always hot and if a short occurs there, the switch being past this spot cannot do anything about it.
Ideally, one needs to add the proper size fuse right at the battery positive post to where if a short does occur, the fuse will open automatically and protect the wiring.
While you did not show the complete installation with the battery in place, ideally you want to have the battery enclosed and vented to the exterior of the vehicle. While I do not know what type of battery you have, even the Optima style batteries have pop off vents on them and some have provisions for adding vent tubes to them. I had a buddy that a trunk mounted battery exploded in his face when a spark occurred in the trunk and the trunk was full of battery fumes. It was not a pretty sight.
Automotive batteries can pack a lot of power and the more one can do to make the installation safer, the better.

  • Shepherd Said:
Great, sure looks like a Ford starter solenoid.



While it looks like a Ford starter solenoid, the one the OP has is a latching style in that when the proper signal gets sent to the solenoids activation coil, the main power input stud is then connected to the output stud and then power is allowed to pass through the solenoid. If then another proper signal is sent to the activation coil, the solenoid then disconnects the main power input stud from the output stud. Once the solenoid is either in the closed position or in the open position, the activation signal is no longer required to leave it in that state.
A Ford style solenoid differs in how it is activated and requires power to stay being applied to the activation coil of the solenoid to keep the main input and output studs connected inside the solenoid's body.
As far as others using Ford solenoids to run driving lights, running lights or whatever for hours on end, they may have gotten either a well built solenoid or a solenoid that was made for continuous use. Years ago I bought a standard Ford type of solenoid that was not of a high quality and after about an hour of having the activation coil powered up, the internal wiring inside melted and opened up and then the solenoids main terminals disconnected.

Jim

1968 Chevy II Nova (Garage Find 2013)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/121766713@N04/ albums...

https://www.youtube.com/user/StlNovas/videos

1973 Nova Custom
1974 Nova Spirit Of America


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4222
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-01-18 06:13 AM - Post#2719622    
    In response to 50sChevys

Hi 50, Good Idea, I have one between the front bucket seats of my Tudor. Its just a plastic key race type and I think its just mechanical and isn't any kind of relay or solenoid.
It's an easy fit in this as the battery is under the passenger seat and its right beside it.

I don't use it very often as I have the electric water pump which runs for 2 minutes after shut down at the key. Plus if you flick it off with the engine running you can destroy the alternator controls. But when battery charging or for security its a gem.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-01-18 06:14 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
50sChevys 
"16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2101
50sChevys
Age: 83
Loc: Central Texas
Reg: 03-23-02
01-01-18 06:36 AM - Post#2719624    
    In response to Jim Streib

  • Quote:
[Ideally, one needs to add the proper size fuse right at the battery positive post to where if a short does occur, the fuse will open automatically and protect the wiring. /quote]

Jim, take another look at the second picture in my original post. What you failed to see is the 5 amp fuse located at the front of the solenoid on the battery side of the unit...thus protecting the electrical system.

50s Chevys http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/245196 4...


 
Jim Streib 
Senior Member
Posts: 452
Jim Streib
Loc: Saint Louis
Reg: 03-20-03
01-01-18 07:47 AM - Post#2719629    
    In response to 50sChevys

  • 50sChevys Said:
  • Quote:
[Ideally, one needs to add the proper size fuse right at the battery positive post to where if a short does occur, the fuse will open automatically and protect the wiring. /quote]

Jim, take another look at the second picture in my original post. What you failed to see is the 5 amp fuse located at the front of the solenoid on the battery side of the unit...thus protecting the electrical system.



While I did not see the fuses on yours, when I did a search for that style solenoid, I did see one that has 5A ATC fuses but those fuses I have to think are for the small wires off of the solenoid to the momentary toggle switch only and are not in place to protect the output post that if shorted can pass up to a 100A continuous output/600A momentary output.

Jim

1968 Chevy II Nova (Garage Find 2013)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/121766713@N04/ albums...

https://www.youtube.com/user/StlNovas/videos

1973 Nova Custom
1974 Nova Spirit Of America


 
50sChevys 
"16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2101
50sChevys
Age: 83
Loc: Central Texas
Reg: 03-23-02
01-01-18 12:43 PM - Post#2719685    
    In response to Jim Streib

Well Jim, regarding ‘shorting out’, I see nothing around the cold side of the solenoid post but the battery cable securely fastened to it and lots of empty space. As far as exposure for it to short, I see no difference in that and the cable being attached to the battery post to start with. Internally inside the solenoid, it’s either latched and current going through or unlatched and open. Only thing internally to short with would be the two toggle switch terminals and their both fused @ 5 amps. Feel like if it were a potential problem area, the tech boys at Hotronics after all these years, would have been on it a long time ago. However, appreciate your insight and comments on the subject.

50s Chevys http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/245196 4...


 
Jim Streib 
Senior Member
Posts: 452
Jim Streib
Loc: Saint Louis
Reg: 03-20-03
01-01-18 02:43 PM - Post#2719701    
    In response to 50sChevys

  • 50sChevys Said:
Well Jim, regarding ‘shorting out’, I see nothing around the cold side of the solenoid post but the battery cable securely fastened to it and lots of empty space. As far as exposure for it to short, I see no difference in that and the cable being attached to the battery post to start with. Internally inside the solenoid, it’s either latched and current going through or unlatched and open. Only thing internally to short with would be the two toggle switch terminals and their both fused @ 5 amps. Feel like if it were a potential problem area, the tech boys at Hotronics after all these years, would have been on it a long time ago. However, appreciate your insight and comments on the subject.



It was no problem throwing out my thoughts and feelings as I too would like someone to throw out what they know or see to help me out with my things. I just see what has been said so far as a good discussion and we each have our own views.

I have just seen too many pictures of wiring being damaged as well as the vehicles that the wiring is in by not properly protecting things. I'm just going to throw this out too but let's say past the output of the solenoid you have a bad short on that cable that goes up forward to the starter and other things on the car and need to disconnect the switch. I as well as others might think by flipping the switch to turn off the solenoid this would happen BUT it may not as the available power off of the battery is now going to the point of least resistance (the short) and now there may not be enough or any power left to have the switch deactivate the solenoid and disconnect the battery from the short past it.

Any time you have a wire or cable off of a source of power such as an automotive battery, one needs to put in place a protection device as close as one can to where any short past the protection device is protected. While an electrically activated cutoff solenoid, manually operated master on/off switch can be used to stop the flow of power past it, a fuse, circuit breaker, fusible link, and other things can be used to where they are in place ready to react 24/7. Just like in home wiring, I do not rely on a light switch to stop the flow of power into a possible short but rely on a fuse or breaker in your main electrical panel.

Jim


1968 Chevy II Nova (Garage Find 2013)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/121766713@N04/ albums...

https://www.youtube.com/user/StlNovas/videos

1973 Nova Custom
1974 Nova Spirit Of America


 
50sChevys 
"16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2101
50sChevys
Age: 83
Loc: Central Texas
Reg: 03-23-02
01-01-18 02:55 PM - Post#2719703    
    In response to Jim Streib


Agreed and that’s why I have fused relays from the starter to engine, fans, lights, etc. Ignition switch just activates the relays.

50s Chevys http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/245196 4...


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13819
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
01-01-18 08:00 PM - Post#2719730    
    In response to 50sChevys

Here it is if anyone wants to order one. I like the idea a lot.

Hotronics Battery Disconnect

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Coaldalecar 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 254
Coaldalecar
Loc: High River, Alberta, Cana...
Reg: 10-10-08
01-02-18 07:35 PM - Post#2719826    
    In response to rrausch

I like the idea a lot and just ordered one this weekend. I would also like to fuse it as 50sChevys suggested. What kind of a fuse would I use?

Alan Klassen, Alberta, Canada
1952 Chev 2Dr Sedan Deluxe (on the road, finally)
02 Chev Silverado Ext Cab
2012 Fusion AWD
2007 Kawasaki 1500 Vulcan


 
50sChevys 
"16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2101
50sChevys
Age: 83
Loc: Central Texas
Reg: 03-23-02
01-02-18 07:39 PM - Post#2719827    
    In response to Coaldalecar

The 5 amp fuse comes with it already plugged in.

50s Chevys http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/245196 4...


 
Coaldalecar 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 254
Coaldalecar
Loc: High River, Alberta, Cana...
Reg: 10-10-08
01-03-18 07:11 PM - Post#2719921    
    In response to 50sChevys

Oh. I totally missed that.

Alan Klassen, Alberta, Canada
1952 Chev 2Dr Sedan Deluxe (on the road, finally)
02 Chev Silverado Ext Cab
2012 Fusion AWD
2007 Kawasaki 1500 Vulcan


 
VANDENPLAS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1788
VANDENPLAS
Age: 38
Loc: ontario canada
Reg: 07-29-09
01-04-18 07:57 AM - Post#2719958    
    In response to Coaldalecar

I have used in the past a “ mega” fuse off the battery and into a manual battery disconnect ( like used on drag cars)
Best of both worlds

You want to buy high quality switches with brass internals and good springs etc

I have seen the cheap aluminum ones weld on from lack of use

" The chain in those handcuffs is made of high tensile steel. It will take you ten minutes to hack through it with this, if your lucky. You can hack through your ankle in fivei



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king 👑


 

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