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Username Post: GM Formula One Engine?        (Topic#348916)
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4110
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-30-17 03:35 AM - Post#2719405    

Hi guys, here is a starter for your pub quiz.

Has any GM engine been used in formula one.

I don't mean F5000 or Indy stock block rules.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 




Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4110
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-30-17 01:18 PM - Post#2719442    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Guys, the answer is yes, but which one?

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Crusty66 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 310
Crusty66
Age: 58
Loc: Albany, eNZed
Reg: 11-04-12
12-30-17 08:50 PM - Post#2719485    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Repco V8 based on Oldsmobile used in the Brabham.



Steve
1966 Caprice 396 496 496mkII TH400


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4110
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-31-17 02:52 AM - Post#2719502    
    In response to Crusty66

Hi Crusty, That's the one. De-stroked to 186" or 3.0L. Most folks guess the Buick alloy block but it had five studs per cylinder and the Olds had had six. Maybe they were thinking turbo variant.

It wasn't the most sophisticated or complex OHC conversion but it was light compact and reliable. Until the Ford funded Cosworth DFV (Double four valve.) came along and wiped the field for a 100 plus wins.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: RB620.jpg (72.02 KB) 10 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-31-17 03:00 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27350
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-31-17 09:44 AM - Post#2719523    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Are we talking about the aluminum 215 cu in engine that was used in the Olds F-85/Cutlass 1961-63?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4110
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-01-18 10:03 PM - Post#2719746    
    In response to raycow

Hi Ray, That's the starting point but it used basically only the block, with some serious updates. The cranks were basically handmade flat plane types made in the UK by Laystal.
The bottom of the block featured a thick steel girdle plate as a block stiffener.
Lubrication was dry sump.

Repco used their own rods and pistons, bearings etc, and had the heads cast in Australia to their design by an aircraft supplier. The heads interchange left to right and the cylinder offset difference was taken up by having a left and right cam. The engine was designed to be easy to service and narrow as it was replacing inline 4 cylinder engines. Hence the SOHC arrangement.

The international F1 engine capacity went up to 3.0 L which was the end of the 4 cylinder Coventry Climax engine era. There was also a 2.5 L version made for the Tasman series. That's Australia and NZ only. Basically just a de-stroked version, but it had longer induction trumpets. Although the picture I posted is labeled as the 3.0 L the trumpets look like the 2.5 L ones to me. There were also some larger capacity sports car engines made.

As these engines were only used by Brabham's two car team there were probably only six to ten racing units made and rebuilt. They were not the most powerful of the new 3.0 L engines but were very reliable, narrow, very light and very simple to service, and so went on to win a number of GP's and both the drivers and manufacturers title.

Repco also made F5000 engines from the local Holden product 253/308 V8 and also made another F1 engine that was entire bespoke castings and included their own block and DOHC heads.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27350
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
01-01-18 11:29 PM - Post#2719752    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Kiwi, thank you for the details. May I correctly assume there are no cost limits on this class? In other words, can you spend as much as you want?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4110
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-03-18 03:41 AM - Post#2719852    
    In response to raycow

Hi Ray, currently no cost limits at all, however to stop them having one race engine and one qualifying engine scenario, if you swap out the engine you go down the grid about ten spots.

From memory the same engine must do three races and qualifying sessions. Probably about 5 hours running total.

Each F1 car currently costs about $12 Million and about $2 million to run for a weekend race meet. Per driver/car.

To start one of these cars normally needs a team of between 15-18 technicians.
A whole lot of parts and systems need to be pre-heated to get clearances, most of these engines wont turn over when cold.
You also have to charge up the valve train as they use nitrogen not valve springs and this is bled off when not in use.

If you drove out without the tires warm then as soon as you let go the pit limiter you would probably loop it into a wall.

Because the seat is made to fit each individual driver, and to connect into the carbon fiber tub, it takes about two days between when you get fitted and when you can actually drive the car.

There are a few modern era (Turbo/Electronics) F1 cars that are still fully operational and some celebrity drives have been arranged. But someone would be fronting about half a mill for it to happen.

From memory the Turbo 1.5 L cars were somewhere around 700Hp
and were banned. So now just naturally aspirated 3.0L. To keep the revs below 20,000 Rpm they have introduced the multi-race rule. BMW was the last manufacturer to use a production block and that was way back in the turbo era.
Massively de-stroked 2.0 L block. They actually went and got aged ones from wrecking yards.

The nearest thing we have to the old days is the F5000 revival series but one of the problems is these are not very safe cars to crash given they are old school tube chassis cars and this started as gentleman racing, but the front of the field is pretty racy. Between $150,000 to 200,000 per car but oh the sound of these 302 production V8's with uncorked pipes.


We have a Kiwi guy Brendon Hartley who has got a contract to drive for the second tier F1 team next year. First one in about 30 years. You need massive amounts of sponsorship to get in the door normally, and he was cut from the same team about a decade ago as a test driver.
However as he has won Le Mans twice recently and is also the current world champion for endurance prototype cars.

Cheers Kiwi



48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-03-18 03:49 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27350
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
01-03-18 11:00 AM - Post#2719878    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Thank you, Kiwi. I was afraid it might be something like that with the money.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4110
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-04-18 10:09 PM - Post#2720051    
    In response to raycow

Hi Ray, A team needs about $250 million a year to keep going, but it is the top class.
If you know a cheap class of racing where it doesn't take big bucks to win let me Know.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27350
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
01-04-18 11:32 PM - Post#2720062    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

There actually is a class like that, or at least there was at one time, but I can't remember the name of it. Have you ever heard of a "claimer"?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4110
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-05-18 07:14 AM - Post#2720084    
    In response to raycow

Hi Ray, I have heard the expression. Cars are supposed to be under a certain value. You can't protest mods but you can claim the car and you only have to pay the notional price.

Is that the one?

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27350
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
01-05-18 03:46 PM - Post#2720141    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Yes, Kiwi, you got it exactly right. I assume the plan works effectively enough to level the playing field, but it is rather hard on anyone who gets "claimed" and then has to build another car. There would also have to be some kind of mechanism in place to discourage frivolous claims.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4110
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-05-18 09:06 PM - Post#2720174    
    In response to raycow

Hi Ray, I guess you just claim the guy who claimed you and then at least you still have a second grade car. I think its more the threat than the reality that is the limiting factor.
The hard to beat guys are the ones who run a new engine each event and fresh tires each race.

The most effective one is capacity with rev limits as it negates the need for super high dollar materials. I have been involved with a few so called "cheater engines". We prefer to call it creative rule interpretation. I can expand on some if it is of interest.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-05-18 09:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 




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