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Username Post: what type fan blade for 305 chevy        (Topic#348575)
54chevybuff 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 42

Loc: Tuttle, OK
Reg: 01-18-12
12-06-17 10:56 AM - Post#2717075    

I put a chevy 305 in my 1954 chevy 210 but it did not have a fan. What type fan do I need and do I need a shroud if so what will fit.



 

Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-06-17 11:48 AM - Post#2717087    
    In response to 54chevybuff

Hi Ricky, Welcome. It really depends what your climate is like and what sort of driving you do.

I have a 305 waiting to go in a Pickup as they are good little luggers that put the torque where this style of car is used to having it. Plus they are cheap.

If it's a keeper then the first thing to think about is how good is the radiator. A lot of folks go for one extra row of tubes when going up in the power stakes. Standard is two rows for the sixes, three rows for the V8's.

If you have the space then you can go with a stock chevy type fan, but usually room is short and most folks go for an electric fan, relays and switches. Large single fans are far more effective than smaller paired ones. Curved blade fans are quieter. They are good in stop go traffic or stationary as they can work at full speed while the engine is at low revs.

A shroud increases the efficiency of a fan about 10-15% and even quite simple ones do well.
If you have a factory or early heater be aware these cores don't like high pressure radiator caps and that isn't a good fix anyway. The pressure in the system is to stop air bubbles and steam pockets which don't cool. Stock for the engine is best. Old heater cores don't like more than say 6 psi

Here is an important thing to think about when working with cooling your car. It's not actually water cooled, its indirect air cooled, and the liquid is just an easy way to move the heat around.
So you want a big enough system, (radiator) to hold enough water to keep the transfer medium stable. (Not boiling) and the real work is the airflow through the radiator core. This is why it gets nasty when sitting still as you have to make the airflow.

If you run an Auto then having a separate cooler away from the radiator helps a lot as they get hot shifting up and down in slow traffic and just crawling on the converter.

If you plan on towing or parading then that is a whole nother level up of cooling, as is putting aircon across the front of the radiator.

Post some pictures and have a look online and you may get some more answers. All ways feel free to ask on the Forum.

The pic's are an early chevy, how to make a custom one, and a truck fan. As you can see the biggest spillage of air is off the end of the blades and that's why the early chevy one is just a drum, and the big truck unit has a molded in shroud made into it.

The thing most folks forget when making shrouds is don't block off the radiator, and don't make it one piece as you need to be able to get it on and off.

Cheers Kiwi



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48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-06-17 12:02 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8400

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
12-06-17 12:17 PM - Post#2717089    
    In response to 54chevybuff

I installed the first V8 (283) in the 51 back in 1966 or 67. I installed a 5 blade fan for a 55-57 Chevy with factory air cond (that fan was still available from Chevy parts dept) and NO fan shroud. That fan has continued to serve fine for a subsequent 327, 350 and now a 383. I also have a USED aftermarket, VERY ugly under dash AC unit, still on R12 blowing cold air (that used AC unit started out on the 261 with 3 carbs before I installed it on the V8). That fan has worked so well since 1967 that I have concluded that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.



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Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-06-17 06:08 PM - Post#2717118    
    In response to DZAUTO

Hi DZ, I would agree that old system works fine, and if it needs a bit of help then the simple drum type early impala shroud will help.

Electric fans only come to the fore when you haven't got room or you want some economy

My F250 has a huge eight blade steel fan and an enormous radiator with no shroud. It doesn't get hot even parading as it was made with a Granny low gear so you can idle around the farm feeding out.

The downside of that is that big fan out on the motorway at a couple of thousand revs is probably sucking 15Hp or more for nothing as the airflow makes it redundant. With a fixed fan you have to set it for worst case scenario and waste the energy the rest of the time.

However, given how big the fan is it's pretty bullet proof and simple. Short of throwing a belt or getting a leak you will never have to worry about it. Being a 3/4 ton it was configured for towing and slide on campers etc so it's not really over kill if you really load it up.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Coaldalecar 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 249
Coaldalecar
Loc: High River, Alberta, Cana...
Reg: 10-10-08
12-06-17 06:14 PM - Post#2717119    
    In response to DZAUTO

A question for DZ: Are those notches on the motor side of the fan blade tips stock or custom? I needed to notch mine and am now worried about out of balance.

Alan Klassen, Alberta, Canada
1952 Chev 2Dr Sedan Deluxe (on the road, finally)
02 Chev Silverado Ext Cab
2012 Fusion AWD
2007 Kawasaki 1500 Vulcan


 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5223
56sedandelivery
Age: 66
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
12-06-17 08:51 PM - Post#2717145    
    In response to Coaldalecar

The 51 Bus Coupe had a mildly built 350 with a short water pump, and a factory 4 blade fan from my stash of parts (most likely a V-8 Tri-Five). We also installed a Champion aluminum radiator in the stock location, with roughly 1-1/2" clearance between the radiator and fan. NEVER any signs of getting hot, no boil overs, no dieseling on shut down, nothing. There were very few parts actually purchased for the build of the entire car; almost everything I had on hand. We would have used the stock radiator, and I'm sure it would have been fine, but the nephew got into buying the "shiny stuff", such as the radiator, valve covers, air cleaner, and polished alternator.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8400

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
12-07-17 06:56 AM - Post#2717172    
    In response to Coaldalecar

  • Coaldalecar Said:
A question for DZ: Are those notches on the motor side of the fan blade tips stock or custom? I needed to notch mine and am now worried about out of balance.



I bought that fan from the parts dept of DOWNTOWN CHEVROLET in Okla City (long gone now) back in the 60s (I originally had it on my 261). That's the way I bought it. The parts guy said that it was for 55-57 Chevys with FACTORY AC, so I never questioned it. BUUUUUUUUUUUUT, I've seen some 55-57 Chevys with factory air and a 5 blade fan, and they are different from mine. MAYBE the one I bought was a generic service replacement fan. I don't know. It has served me well all these years, and if it ain't broke, I ain't gonna fix it!



 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2819
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
12-07-17 08:54 AM - Post#2717180    
    In response to DZAUTO

With my 350 I am running a large (almost gets lower hose) 6 or 7 blade racing fan I got at a swap for $4. It cools the car amazingly even in 90° days BUT is loud. The stock late 50’s 4 blade from a bel air let the temp creep. I am going to go back to the 4 blade but with a shroud

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
rickityfifty 
Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 79
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-07-14
12-07-17 03:32 PM - Post#2717220    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

"The downside of that is that big fan out on the motorway at a couple of thousand revs is probably sucking 15Hp or more for nothing as the airflow makes it redundant."


Kiwi, this made me think. Is it really? If the forward motion air speed through the radiator and the air speed generated by the fan were the same (and a quick google of aircraft propeller design suggests that its not far off), then the losses would be quite small.
just thinking.
Rickity

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


Edited by rickityfifty on 12-07-17 03:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-08-17 03:49 AM - Post#2717271    
    In response to rickityfifty

Hi Rickety, yep I am pretty sure it does. Though I have to admit I have never been out on the road strapped to the hood and measuring it.

On a plane all there is ever in front of a prop is a conical spinner to reduce turbulence. Plus they have a much more streamlined frontal profile and much lower drag. I would imagine you would need the fan to be operating in a neutral air flow or a vacuum before the power to drive it would reduce. From memory tailwind on prop planes makes them faster for the same power and head wind slows them down.

On a vehicle there is a pressure area directly in front caused by the main mass of air diverting around the vehicle. This trapped air is being forced back in through the grille and radiator and past the fan, around the engine and mostly out underneath. I am sure at some speeds the fan may cavitate but most of the time it's just chopping away at the air needlessly. Also the vast majority of fan blades are not profiled like a wing or true propellor. So to what extent on rushing air may help to turn them is not something I know.

The only real world way to work out parasitic losses is to compare the gross HP of an engine with its net HP.
Gross is normally without the fan, water pump and alternator. It does depend on the test parameters though, as some gross figures may feature no mufflers.

What really drove the almost universal adoption of electric fans was fuel economy. So that tells you how much of a factor it is. Same as most power steering going over to electric. You only need to power it when you need it.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-08-17 04:03 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
54chevybuff 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 42

Loc: Tuttle, OK
Reg: 01-18-12
12-08-17 12:31 PM - Post#2717326    
    In response to DZAUTO

ARE YOU RUNNING A LONG WATER PUMP OR SHORT?



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-08-17 04:53 PM - Post#2717345    
    In response to 54chevybuff

Hi 54, DZ's looks like a short to me. I always use the short as I tend to put the motor forward so that it is not necessary to cut the firewall at all.
I do this knowing that it means I have to do more at the front of the motor and next to nothing at the back.

I used to work on cooling systems and radiator redesigns for special purpose vehicles for GM so it's an area that I am comfortable with and there isn't as much guesswork.

These are road cars not racers so moving the engine weight back is next to meaningless. In fact as a small block is shorter and slightly lighter you get a very similar center of mass with an engine forward V8 as a stock six.
You can even fit a glide or TH350 in without cutting the stock trans member. (Can't drop the auto out from underneath.)

The problem with the stock radiator is its bottom hose outlet is not going to work if you try and put it a long way forward. It runs straight into the frame it used to sit on. However if you are going for more power then you want more cooling so the old radiator is gone anyway. There is a ton of room ahead of the slam panel for a big cross flow if you want. However you can usually get a three row and fans in if you want old school style.

My own old Chev sedan has a later 250 straight six so that fits nice and easy but is longer as well, so has the same radiator clearance issues as a forward mount V8.

The last picture is of a radical solution to take about 4" of the front of a SBF V8. That is neither simple nor cheap but it's a steel bodied 32 with an uncut RHD firewall, and a stock radiator position. Mostly I did this because I can, but I did not want any overheating issues and I didn't want a pusher fan you can see at the front. Took months, cost about 3K. So there is always an answer, it just depends how much time and and how many beer vouchers you have.

Cheers Kiwi



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48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-08-17 04:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
flatout 
Member
Posts: 146
flatout
Loc: NW
Reg: 12-15-01
12-08-17 05:24 PM - Post#2717346    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

That’s beautiful work, Kiwi



 
Mike JW 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1261
Mike JW
Loc: Arroyo Grande, CA
Reg: 01-19-06
12-08-17 06:53 PM - Post#2717358    
    In response to flatout

Very nice



 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8400

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
12-08-17 06:55 PM - Post#2717359    
    In response to 54chevybuff

  • 54chevybuff Said:
ARE YOU RUNNING A LONG WATER PUMP OR SHORT?



I have a short pump (which I prefer) on EVERYTHING except the 70 Chevelle.



 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2819
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
12-08-17 07:11 PM - Post#2717361    
    In response to DZAUTO

There are these new plastic fans that would help with weight

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-08-17 07:38 PM - Post#2717363    
    In response to flatout

Hi Flatout, Thankyou. I presume you mean the Brand X not the forward mount Chevy.

The Chevy is what you get from working with someone who has done it a time or two before.
Having an optical cutter to make precise repeatable bracket parts, a press and dies to fold or curve stuff. A mill with spline cutter to do steering shafts and slots in brackets all helps.

If you did mean the 32 well it's an ex show car, Magazine covers etc. That water pump system is actually version 2.
You can see the first version below where it has a small Holden water pump adapted to the face of the Windsor block.

When I bought the car it had been in storage and it wasn't that nice to drive. I did quite a lot to the underneath that nobody notices to bring it up to certification standards. When I first got it it had the original B4 ford radiator in place, and it had marks on the tubes where the flexilight fan had hit it and been repaired. Also the rocker covers would hit the firewall.

So what I had to do to fit the big Motorsport rocker covers on and have clearance was move the motor forward about 1 1/2" which meant the fan was through the radiator. So I bought a Castlemain rod shop adapter to put a short Holden pump on the block. It looks like a shaped slab but is actually a casting with water passages in the back. To also go with this I had to move all the pulleys back and so I redrilled an old bottom pulley to Ford pattern as that's as far back as anything could go. I then made a waterpump pulley that was half Holden and half Ford. Once I had that concentric I had it TIG'd all around and then linished the join away before coating it. The Alternator is a Denso I think and is the biggest little alternator around. 75 Amp hour if I remember. I made a bracket up and bent an old Adjuster bar to work, the little support tab is Toyota as well. If you are going to HPC coat an alternator body, blank off the bearing seats so they still fit. (How do I know!)
My friend rebuilt it and converted it to the single pulley from multigroove. It's actually so close to the head that there is not enough distance to pull the 90* connector off without swinging it out clear.
This version was OK but no good in stop start traffic, and I had no intention of leaving a flexi-fan on there.

Fate forced my hand for part two. I was driving down the motorway and there was an almighty cloud of smoke behind me which turned out to be steam. It was running fine but it turned out that a small fingernail size piece of the bore wall on one cylinder had fallen in. It was right at the bottom of the water passages so I put it down to sludge corrosion and someone stupid enough to bore a 289 Ford 40 thou over. Never go more than 20 thou on a thin wall cast block. They aren't like a SBC. So the engine with the yellow leads is the 289, and the next one is a 20 thou over 302 giving about 306". I got some 20 year old new Pistons and had the block machined and balanced at his shop. Cam Heads and manifolds are all as before.

So while I was hunting for a second hand short block and getting together my engine parts I bought a new radiator for a BBChev in a 32. I had the top and bottom outlets changed to suit the new remote Davies Craig electric water pump. The bottom outlet is just a straight stub that holds the pump, and the top outlet was changed to a Ford 90*. (Don't use these chrome ones as the hose pop off.)
To make the pump fit the motor I wanted a 90* hose so that motor rock was isolated from the pump. The Original adapter had a non concentric bolt pattern so the pump could only go one way so I got a Guy who makes brake parts on a CNC machine to turn it up.
It has an old toyota thermostat housing for the 90* inlet and its stepped and relieved on the back. I spent half a day finding the right housing and then removing all the spurious casting of it for other mounts so it looked right. then I polished and clear coated it.

I then put a 16" single electric fan on the inside of the core and an aftermarket overflow tank. It doesn't have a shroud as it doesn't need one. It will idle all day sitting still if you want to waste the fuel.
The Davies Craig electric pump doesn't work with a thermostat and that function is in the programmable controller. This is a set up specifically designed for OE style operation. It's not an add on drag racing part. The biggest advantage is when you pull up when the engine is stinking hot (Doesn't happen.) and just turn it off. The water pump keeps running for a couple of minute and all that heat in the heads is moved into the radiator and away. I have since wrapped those expensive headers in ceramic wrap as they are so close to the hood sides I didn't want the paint to burn again, even though it has louvered sides.

If you watch a bit of endurance racing you will often see the car comes into the pits, it's shutdown for refuelling (Rules),and brake and tire changes. The new driver goes charging out and within half a lap it's gone bang. That's fast shutdown heat soak damage. Electric water pumps solve that as you need the water flowing to get the heat out to where you can get rid of it. So while trundling down pit lane before stopping the pumps are going 100% and shifting a lot of coolant, and they keep going when it's sitting still.

Cheers Kiwi


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48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-08-17 08:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-08-17 08:48 PM - Post#2717369    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi guys if you are seriously thinking about this there are easier ways of doing it.
If I was going to do a SBF again I would just use the enderle injection front cover. They are a lot cheaper than custom parts. Tap the water pump block offs for 90* fittings and you are in business. Just blank the cam drive. The Big block Chevy is much the same and likely to have space issue. They would need two pumps.
The small block Chevy is super easy to do as you just need to make two plate fittings and they are probably an over the counter Item. Or you could use a Dedenbear manifold.

Most engines are made with the water pump at the front of the block but not all. I have a V6 where it is down the side and if you want to make a housing for the back and some pipework you can mount the mechanical water pump off to the side on a V8 or straight six. Where they are normally is about cost and mounting mechanical fans, it's logical, but when you run out of space needs Must.

If you look on the floor beside the V6 you will see the waterpump and it's rear housing. It has a 90* for the water hose and a spigot for the heater hose and bypass. Also an Image of the back of the pump. It just bolts on the lower block on one side.

Whatever you do don't make the mistake of thinking drag racing electric water pumps work on the road. They don't. The key part of the Davies Craig system is not the pumps but the intelligent control necessary to use an electric pump in everyday road conditions. These are the guys who made the electric fan a universal part of modern car design and they think and build for OE quality and reliability with no driver inputs. Their pumps are a world away from a standard water pump with a generic 12V motor plugged on to drive it.

Cheers Kiwi


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48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-08-17 09:45 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
50hotrod 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 911
50hotrod
Age: 60
Loc: Wisconsin
Reg: 07-25-11
12-08-17 10:10 PM - Post#2717375    
    In response to 54chevybuff

This is all you need...... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-17317

Cheap and good to 8000 RPM.
Check to make sure a 17" diameter will fit.
You can get the same fan in different diameters and watch the rotation listing.


Well, you know what's wrong with the world today

People done gone put their Bible's away

They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land

"Simple Man" By Charlie Daniels



Edited by 50hotrod on 12-08-17 10:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2819
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
12-09-17 06:30 AM - Post#2717383    
    In response to 50hotrod

  • 50hotrod Said:
This is all you need...... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-17317

Cheap and good to 8000 RPM.
Check to make sure a 17" diameter will fit.
You can get the same fan in different diameters and watch the rotation listing.




This is the one I have. Again, loud, and some other issues of mostly preference.


Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
flatout 
Member
Posts: 146
flatout
Loc: NW
Reg: 12-15-01
12-09-17 06:31 AM - Post#2717384    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Yes, Kiwi, I was referencing the 32. Beautiful machine work. I like all types. I know there is a lot going on in the front of a SBF and that’s a creative way to trim it down.



Edited by flatout on 12-09-17 06:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2819
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
12-09-17 06:33 AM - Post#2717385    
    In response to drew1987

I was driving an Avalon Hybrid (ditched it and made out with enough to cash for a decent car) and it had 2 electric water pumps. This is becoming common on factory modern cars. I Wager most hybrids, including General Motors, use electric water pumps as they spend much of their time going down the road at near highway speeds with the engine off but hot

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 26935
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-09-17 10:49 AM - Post#2717402    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Kiwi, one of your pics shows a gold or bronze painted engine with a water manifold and a remote water pump. Is that the electric WP you mentioned in your post? If not, how is that pump driven?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-09-17 02:55 PM - Post#2717430    
    In response to raycow

Hi Ray, The manifold is by Dedenbear and it has an electric water pump they make. It's kind of hard to see but it is just behind the fuel pump and looks like part of the pump.

Their pumps are primarily for drag racing so I don't know if it would stack up in road use. It may well do.

The problem with using drag race ones is they are there for different reasons. They do what they are designed for really well, but that isn't necessarily the same as road use.

You get more power in the run if the crank isn't turning the water pump and you can sit in the pits between rounds powering it remotely for cool down. That's all you need.

There is no doubt those big fixed blade fans will move a lot of air but as Drew has stated they make a lot of noise and they sure suck power.

If you look at the Davies Craig water pump it's a different pump style than the others, it looks like a turbocharger for water. But the real reason I like them is because they were designed from a clean slate to be a better answer to a problem of space, heat soak, and fuel economy. They work without having a thermostat and are designed as a system to manage and protect the engine from running too hot or cold.

The magic part is in the E-controller which has a number of patterns as to how it moves the coolant and when. It pulses on startup to move the water away from the valves in the heads but get things warming up quickly , then it has another stepped pattern, plus a rising rate ramp mode, and of course then full on.
The last mode is to keep going after you turn the motor off for acouple of minutes to normalise everything.

They are not cheap, they are not simple, but they work really well and if you have to pit a hot race engine and turn it off to refuel they are brilliant. So good that Ferrari used them.

I am the first to admit I could have fitted a recessed firewall, and I did it because I could, and it is my area of specialism. But I can drive that car in parades if I want, in traffic jams, and Santa's cute little helpers love to ride along.

To get back to the 305, I have not ever had to resort to anything unusual like this to fit a SBC in our cars other than the normal short water pump. And this is with no firewall cut.

Wouldn't you know it, I went on line to get some images for the pump and found they now make their own SBF cast adapter and its Under $100 USA. Because they have really taken off as a product they have come down in price and the Summit kit was listed at $442.00. That's with the controller relays fan control and everything included. They have adapter kits for BBC/SBC and lots of other engines, and the after market makes lots of low volumes ones. I suppose at least I can pat myself on the back and say I came up with the same answer as they did first.

Cheers Kiwi

PS that ugly blue hose on the SBC adaption is available in black as well.


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48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-09-17 03:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 958
cbmkr56
Age: 61
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
12-09-17 04:58 PM - Post#2717443    
    In response to raycow

Here is a better picture of how the dedenbear unit is installed on that engine.
http://914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/inde x.php?t20...



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-09-17 05:56 PM - Post#2717447    
    In response to cbmkr56

Hi CBMKR, I saw those images. Interesting comments about pump life, for both the Mezier and Dedenbear of about 3,000 Hrs. You are never going to get near that on a drag or race car but that's way short of OE and vehicle life standards.

The Dedenbear manifold looks tidy and very compact so I wouldn't have a problem using that with a remote mechanical water pump or a Davies Craig pump. Even though they have their own two into one molded hose.

Cheers Kiwi



48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 26935
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-10-17 09:29 AM - Post#2717484    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Kiwi, I'm glad you didn't cut the firewall. IMO, you did the right thing, and your finished result looks like it was well worth the effort.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 

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