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Username Post: Possible Vapor Lock issue?        (Topic#348411)
beachb 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Reg: 09-26-17
12-02-17 04:55 PM - Post#2716677    
    In response to cbmkr56

Well I will be looking into a new pump and return line to tank to help out. I did take the same trip today as last time I had the issue and only thing I did diff was to drive 55-60 not 65-70 and I put better fuel in not arco and then 5 clothes pins on fuel line and today no issue. This is just a band aid and looks bad so I will spend the money and look to do a permanent fix. Thanks all.



 

2blu52 
"16th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18175
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
12-02-17 05:23 PM - Post#2716679    
    In response to beachb

I am going to state that the change in speed had more to do with it than any thing. If you have a 216 and the 4:11 rear end you were running the engine pretty hard.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-02-17 07:57 PM - Post#2716687    
    In response to beachb

Hi BeachB, As I said earlier the pump would need to be changed to a constant flow type and the return would need to be from the carb float union and that is probably the most costly and least effective fix if it is a heat soak issue.

However if the heat soak and percolation is not happening as soon as you pull up and lift the hood then it's probably not heat soak, or not entirely heat soak.

Have you checked your cooling system performance your timing and mixture yet?

Today's fuels are configured with a much lower boiling point and are far more volatile than in the previous couple of decades as by and large all new vehicles have fuel injection. This makes a huge difference as injection mechanically vaporizes the fuel rather than relying on manifold heat. So the whole intake can be run way cooler and not get near the boiling point of the fuel, plus the typical 40-80 psi of line pressure suppresses air bubbling and as the systems use a return line the excess fuel draws away heat and sends it back to the tank through a return line.

There has been some suggestion that the mechanical fuel pumps contributes engine block heat to the fuel. I would check that if it vapour locked while driving. However idling vapour lock or non running vapour lock is the fuel in the bowl or line boiling, when static.

Folks have tried all sorts of fixes for that but the better ones are fuel line insulator sleeves, phenolic resin spacers and carb pans.
Wrapping the exhaust manifold is probably the most direct answer as that is the hottest external part, however some folks have dealt with this by running the electric radiator fans for a period when shutting down and this will help, and I have seen an example where a bilge vent fan was directed at the manifold/carb area.

One online poster suggested they were getting fuel boiling at 120*F due to the blends now used.


Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-02-17 08:46 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
beachb 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Reg: 09-26-17
12-02-17 10:33 PM - Post#2716696    
    In response to 2blu52

Definitely a possibility that I was running it harder than I think just because of being used to newer cars. I would like to go 6065 if possible without making the gear too tall for the engine to accelerate what would be a decent gear ratio that I could change the rear into? 373 355? Something that would lower the RPMs down and not drive the engine so hard but not make it too hard to accelerate from 2nd to 3rd gear



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 26938
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-02-17 11:15 PM - Post#2716698    
    In response to beachb

If you still have torque tube drive and want to keep it, your best choice is 3.55. You can swap in a complete 3.55 torque tube assembly from a powerglide car or you can buy aftermarket 3.55 gears and install them in your present center section.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
2blu52 
"16th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18175
2blu52
Age: 84
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
12-03-17 05:22 AM - Post#2716712    
    In response to raycow

And I repeat, the 3:55s work very well with a stock 216 engine.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
beachb 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Reg: 09-26-17
12-03-17 09:18 AM - Post#2716739    
    In response to 2blu52

Thanks, I think I will just do a swap of the gears in my present center section. I should then be able to do 60-65 with the same rpms as when I was doing 55 before. Perfect.



 
VANDENPLAS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1742
VANDENPLAS
Age: 38
Loc: ontario canada
Reg: 07-29-09
12-03-17 12:46 PM - Post#2716755    
    In response to beachb

The 216 with the 411’s suck on the Hwy , top speed without hearing the engine scream on my 50 was about 80 kmh


Not sure about all the trouble of an electric pump and return line seems like a lot of bother

The Chrysler flathead 6 had issues with vapour lock and had a heat sheild installed between the block and fuel pump to make an “ air dam” between the two

I think that either wrapping the lines or a thermal paint, making sure the line is not contacting anywhere to transfer heat ( valve cover, water outlet , engine block etc) should be enough to solve the issue.

I like the clothes pin magyvering !

Remember Keep It Simple Stupid!!!

" The chain in those handcuffs is made of high tensile steel. It will take you ten minutes to hack through it with this, if your lucky. You can hack through your ankle in fivei



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king 👑


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-03-17 03:16 PM - Post#2716770    
    In response to beachb

Hi BeachB, Just remember when you buy your 3.55:1 gear set there is one type for the car torque tube and a different one for the light truck torque tube.
They definitely do not interchange. So don't waste your beer vouchers on the wrong one.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Dean50 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1147
Dean50
Loc: Detroit area
Reg: 01-02-07
12-04-17 01:27 AM - Post#2716810    
    In response to beachb

Hi beach
Swapping the stock 4:11 torque tube and rear gear assembly for the 3:55 is a relatively easy afternoon caper. Use the manual and do a search in CT for mentions of the proper gasket placements. There are varying gasket thicknesses. Gaskets and new universal bolts and clips are readily available from Chevs of the 49s, Filling Station etc. Your Speedo will have a slight reading error afterward.
Definitely worth the effort.
Enjoy.

Dean50



 
beachb 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Reg: 09-26-17
12-04-17 07:52 AM - Post#2716832    
    In response to Dean50

Thanks, I will make sure to get the gear for the car and not truck. I still have the closed drive system so I figure just easier to get the gear and replace the existing in the rear end.



 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 958
cbmkr56
Age: 61
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
12-04-17 09:08 AM - Post#2716839    
    In response to beachb

Guy's Chevy's has complete rear axle assy's from automatic cars with 3.55 gears,We have been pulling the 3rd member and torque in one piece for people that do not want to drop the whole rear.

PM me and i can give you his number. I am going over today for some other parts and can see how many 3.55 rear axle assy's he has out of cars.



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-05-17 09:35 PM - Post#2717026    
    In response to 0utlaw

Hi Jim, your mechanical pump might not have been losing pressure. When the fuel line percolates it creates a rise in pressure where the bubbles are, as they have expanded many times over. If they don't push the float open and dissipate they act as a pressure against the pump that makes it think the bowl is full.

Do not tip cold water over an engine with vapour lock, you are very likely to crack a head or manifold.


You can loosen the fuel line coming out of the pump, as that will alleviate the pressure and the wee spray won't be all over the hot engine. Watch your eyes though. A bit of time to let things cool or some engine start to get going straight away

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
0utlaw 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 2777
0utlaw
Loc: US East Coast
Reg: 09-10-02
12-06-17 06:31 AM - Post#2717048    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Kiwi,
You would have to be careful with the water. In my case, a little gas in the carb...enough to get the engine fired up and rev a bit and it would run perfect.
In my case, it was the pump. A new pump completely solved the problem....it never happened again in the hottest of days. I had thought about a return line or electric pump, but it was fixed. Jim




 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-06-17 12:10 PM - Post#2717088    
    In response to 0utlaw

Hi Jim. Mechanical fuel pumps are a wear item and when you imagine how many cycles they do on that diaphragm and through those simple little valves it's well worth putting a kit in them occasionally.
Particularly given what happens when they start filling the sump with petrol. Personally I would rather break down.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
0utlaw 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 2777
0utlaw
Loc: US East Coast
Reg: 09-10-02
12-06-17 04:59 PM - Post#2717114    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Agreed KIWI. In the states, $20 gets you a new pump . The rebuild kits I found online cost more than that. Jim



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-06-17 05:55 PM - Post#2717116    
    In response to 0utlaw

Hi Jim, that probably equates to $40-50 here as we have the exchange rate and freight to contend with.
The ones I like to rebuild are the glas top AC type as its handy to see what's going on. I haven't heard if you can still get those.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
beachb 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Reg: 09-26-17
12-07-17 08:58 AM - Post#2717184    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

I am pretty sure that between replacing the current gears with 3.55, insulating the fuel line by the engine, possibly replacing current belt fan with twin electrics I will be good to go. I will add a new fuel pump just for giggles as I am unsure how long it has been on the car before I bought it. a 40-50 pump is cheap insurance.



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-07-17 01:32 PM - Post#2717209    
    In response to beachb

Hi BeachB, Just a couple of comments on your plans.

I would do the mechanical fuel pump first, just to see if its vapour lock or air bubbles.

The 3.55:1 gears will help and are a positive change. But this is still old technology and they need to be driven accordingly

A simple fan shroud will enhance what the standard mechanical fan does by quite a lot.

Twin mechanical fans are not great, only use them when you are out of choices. The larger diameter single electric fans are far more effective. You would expect that two 10" fans would out do a 14-16" single but they don't come close.
If you want a quiet electric fan then curved blade or frames are the best for that.

Alternately you could leave your mechanical fan in place and put a 16" on the front as a pusher type for when things get tough. It's not a look i like but it will help.

The thing the vapor lock is telling me, if that's what it is , is your engine is running too hot. While it may show on the gauge as normal, you need to check that all is in order. I am sure you can appreciate that certain parts of the engine feel much more heat than what the gauge is telling you about one point in the coolant. You may have a lot of sludge in the block, a tired or partially blocked radiator, etc.

If you have vapor lock then you are not too far away from burnt exhaust valves, blown head gasket, cracked head, or broken rings.

As I mentioned before I would be very carefully checking the cooling system first. Old engines can get a lot of sludge build up that you can only get to by removing the frost plugs. The bottom of the block is critical as a heat path for the top and ensuring there is enough volume of water in the system. If the motor isn't out we used to put a crystal form cleaner in and run for 50-100 miles to dislodge as much from and treat the upper surfaces. Then a reverse flush of the radiator, easy frost plugs out and a thorough de sludge of the block. Run for another 50-100 miles and reverse flush again. This time refill using anti-freeze. If this was a customer car then it would get new hoses, thermostat, and radiator cap.

Never use compressed air to clean a radiator or the cooling system. Remember its got a heater core which is another small radiator. If you want to use air in the block, wait till its dry and do it outside and with eye protection. It makes a hell of a mess and small shards of debris fly everywhere. I prefer the garden hose and patiently probing with wire and magnets.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-07-17 01:49 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
beachb 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Reg: 09-26-17
12-07-17 02:50 PM - Post#2717218    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Kiwi, you are right. I think a shroud might be best. The new gears are only so I can do 60 without taxing it, nothing major beyond that.

I will certainly do a new pump, check cooling system and keep it simple. Like I said last time is that as soon as I dropped it from 65 mph to 55 mph I had no issue of vapor lock on last trip. I think just cruising in the slow lane and 50-55 will keep any issues from popping up.




 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3670
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-08-17 04:18 AM - Post#2717274    
    In response to beachb

Hi BeachB, Have a look at this topic below for the 64 Impala Shroud. They make reproductions and although I haven't checked the fit for either blade diameter or mounting in a car I am sure it would be relatively simple to rework it to fit.

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?ti...

I am on the other side of the planet so I make my own or salvage something. But this may something you can rework.
making your fan work better is all about reducing tip spillage on the blades.

Here is a clearance diagram for fixed fan in a shroud.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: Clearances-209x300.jpg (15.51 KB) 1 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-08-17 04:43 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Dean50 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1147
Dean50
Loc: Detroit area
Reg: 01-02-07
12-08-17 04:35 AM - Post#2717276    
    In response to beachb

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?ti...

This is an old thread that deals with the torque tube/center section swap. It helped me Do mine.
Enjoy.

Dean50



 
eplantage 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2064

Loc: Southern MN
Reg: 03-15-04
12-08-17 04:44 AM - Post#2717278    
    In response to Dean50

One thing that hasn't been mentioned,unless I missed it, is what are your fuel lines made of? Steel? Rubber? In my experience with vapor lock is it's usually associated with the over use of rubber fuel hoses allowing rapid expansion from heat in the engine compartment. I have one hose on my sedan delivery that's about 4" long from the fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump line for flex from engine movement. Just throwing that out there. If your fuel lines are primarily steel that's great. .02

Age: 63 at the moment
1950 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery
1953 BelAir Convertible Project
2002 Heritage Springer FLSTSI
1930 Model A Standard Coupe


 

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