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Username Post: 54 Jaguar IFS conversion        (Topic#348142)
Ben 1954 
Member
Posts: 83
Ben 1954
Loc: West Houston, TX
Reg: 01-10-05
11-10-17 11:37 AM - Post#2713920    

I installed the Jaguar XJ6 front end in my 1954 chevy belair.

I took it to get aligned but found that I have too much negative camber. Even with all the shims removed, there is still 2 degrees of negative camber. Any of you guys that have done the Jag IFS swamp run into this problem?

If so, were you able to find a solution?

Regards,

Ben


 

cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 933
cbmkr56
Age: 61
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
11-10-17 12:18 PM - Post#2713925    
    In response to Ben 1954

You need too add shims to the front of the upper a arm , that will move the top of the spindle forward to give you positive camber.



Edited by cbmkr56 on 11-10-17 12:19 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Ben 1954 
Member
Posts: 83
Ben 1954
Loc: West Houston, TX
Reg: 01-10-05
11-10-17 01:23 PM - Post#2713930    
    In response to cbmkr56

My understanding is that the camber is the "verticality" of the Tire. Maybe I am mistaken.

I don't understand how adding shims to the front of the upper arm will improve the situation.

Can you explain further?

Regards,

Ben


 
VANDENPLAS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1705
VANDENPLAS
Age: 38
Loc: ontario canada
Reg: 07-29-09
11-10-17 02:43 PM - Post#2713947    
    In response to Ben 1954

Where the upper control arm bolt to the subframe ( 2 studs coming out of the frame holding upper control arm pivot )

You need to add shims to gain positive camber and remove shims for negative camber


The shims go between the arm and the sub frame pushing the upper arm out ( in front of the frame will do nothing )

Castor is adjust with shims on the front or rear side of the upper control arm essentially pushing the arm forward or back from true vertical


The shims are readily available at a jag dealer if they still have these cars in there fleet

Or fender shims or Chevy camber shims will work also

Just FYI rear camber on a jag diff is done by shimming the axle shaft on the diff flange


" The chain in those handcuffs is made of high tensile steel. It will take you ten minutes to hack through it with this, if your lucky. You can hack through your ankle in fivei



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king 👑


Edited by VANDENPLAS on 11-10-17 02:46 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Ben 1954 
Member
Posts: 83
Ben 1954
Loc: West Houston, TX
Reg: 01-10-05
11-10-17 06:24 PM - Post#2713965    
    In response to VANDENPLAS

All of the shims have been removed from the top of the control arm. Even with all shims removed there is still negative camber. The suggestion from the alignment shop was that the front end needed to be lowered about 2 inches to make the alignment correct. I don't want to lower the front, so was looking for another solution.

Regards,

Ben


 
Ben 1954 
Member
Posts: 83
Ben 1954
Loc: West Houston, TX
Reg: 01-10-05
11-10-17 07:42 PM - Post#2713969    
    In response to Ben 1954

It seems as though the front of the car is not heavy enough or the coil springs are too strong.

Regards,

Ben


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13476
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-10-17 11:42 PM - Post#2713978    
    In response to VANDENPLAS

  • VANDENPLAS Said:
........You need to add shims to gain positive camber.......



Was this done?

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
VANDENPLAS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1705
VANDENPLAS
Age: 38
Loc: ontario canada
Reg: 07-29-09
11-11-17 03:43 AM - Post#2713979    
    In response to rrausch

You need to add shims between the control arm and the frame to push the arm out to gain positives camber removing shims gives negative
Look up the jag series 3 suspension to clairfiy this for you

Also how is the alignment shop doing the alignmemnt? Going by 50 Chevy or jaguar specs won't work, they need to look at the live data and use some math and brain matter and make it work " twisting till it's all green " won't work as the specs are not accurate

" The chain in those handcuffs is made of high tensile steel. It will take you ten minutes to hack through it with this, if your lucky. You can hack through your ankle in fivei



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king 👑


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3577
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-11-17 04:51 AM - Post#2713985    
    In response to VANDENPLAS

Hi Guys, Rule one of wheel alignment.

Tire fitters can't do custom wheel alignment applications!.

Also, you need to make sure that you are duplicating the load situation that is required for the specifications given. Some Jag fronts are set at half load, not empty, and you are supposed to get the ride height correct first.

The English use different terms and names from US practice and Jaguar seemed to be particularly good at setting traps for the unwary. If you think you could jump from working on Chevy/Ford/etc sixes and could service a Jaguar then they were more than happy to show you how foolish that assumption was.

On all the sixes I worked on No1 cylinder is at the front, on an early Jaguar six, it is at the back.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 11-11-17 04:58 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
VANDENPLAS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1705
VANDENPLAS
Age: 38
Loc: ontario canada
Reg: 07-29-09
11-11-17 05:05 AM - Post#2713987    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

YES KIWI your right I just 'a'membered jaguars curb weight for the series 3 was totalled with a full tank of fuel and 4 passengers in the car !

We had these weighted bags to put in all 4 seats and had to fill the fuel tank to do alignmemnts !! Sh!t completely forgot about that!

Jag had this set up for alignment but untill 94-97 around there

Thanks from making me 'amemeber

" The chain in those handcuffs is made of high tensile steel. It will take you ten minutes to hack through it with this, if your lucky. You can hack through your ankle in fivei



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king 👑


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3577
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-11-17 05:29 AM - Post#2713994    
    In response to VANDENPLAS

Hi VDP, that should read "fill both fuel tanks"

Cheers Kiwi

ps. you can also measure it on the headlight centers and then check ground clearance. Then ....

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 11-11-17 05:31 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13476
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-11-17 07:46 AM - Post#2714008    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

  • Bel Air kiwi Said:
Hi VDP, that should read "fill both fuel tanks" ................



Ahhh, that brought back memories. One of the coolest things about the XJ-12 I restored for SWMBO was pulling into the gas station and popping those beautiful chrome gas caps and fillin' 'er up... the Jag that is, not SWMBO. I better shut up.


1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 933
cbmkr56
Age: 61
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
11-12-17 05:32 PM - Post#2714190    
    In response to Ben 1954

Yes it is vertical, when you shim the front of the a arm towards the center of the car the spindle will lean forward. You can also roll the k member of the suspension forward to get the same effect.



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3577
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-12-17 05:44 PM - Post#2714191    
    In response to rrausch

Hi Robert, She should have been worshiping you. Those early V12's were magnificent cars when new.

A century ago when I did my apprenticeship one of our clients had a new S3 V12 and he used it for going on 600 mile intercity runs as he had a morbid fear of flying.
The owner used to regularly max it out on these trips so you can image what his fuel bills were like.

It wasn't quite as quiet as a Bentley I used to service but had it's measure in every other way.
The manager of the place I worked had a restored 4.2 "E"type coupe, I never got to drive that but it was a superb drivers car.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13476
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-12-17 07:15 PM - Post#2714202    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

That XJ-12 was a great car except for the many times it wouldn't start or the times it died on the highway.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
flatout 
Member
Posts: 140
flatout
Loc: NW
Reg: 12-15-01
11-17-17 12:51 PM - Post#2714781    
    In response to Ben 1954



If you’re trying to move the top of the tire out, you have to remove shims. If you’ve removed them all and it’s still too far in, you could remove the 1/8” angle under the control arm shaft. I suppose it will weaken it some. You could reinforce it another way.





 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3577
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-17-17 09:51 PM - Post#2714823    
    In response to flatout

Hi Flatout, nice top shock mounts. On a Jag you don't actually remove the spacers from the top, you should just swap them from one side to the other, and always have the stock 8 spacers.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
flatout 
Member
Posts: 140
flatout
Loc: NW
Reg: 12-15-01
11-18-17 07:02 PM - Post#2714897    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

I believe the OP was talking about camber. The shims sandwiched with the ball joints is for caster adjustment, and you’re right, they are just shuffled around for caster adjustment



Edited by flatout on 11-18-17 07:08 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

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