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Username Post: Camaro clip        (Topic#348067)
drew1987 
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drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
11-09-17 12:32 PM - Post#2713807    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

I haven't gone that far yet (straight vs using some of the kickup) but I am going to try to see where that front crossmember is compared to the original 1950 one. I don't know if that's the right way to explain what I am trying to say.... the top/middle of that skinnier front crossmember needs to be below or at where the original was. With a quick eyeball, that includes a good amount of the kick-up. I am also wondering about ride height.

I was considering using a hand full of wasters between the ball joints and the spindles so they don't seat and can be easily undone if I want to change out spindles or exclude springs in my initial set up. That's something that popped into my head and I haven't given it much thought other than it will mean to pickle fork if there are changes AND even if its 6 washers that's a negligible height difference.



back to the mounts... the puck style will never be used again unless I build a fenders/hood off tradition rod and WANT ruble. That's not exactly my preference; I'm more likely to build fenders/hood/sides on and go for comfort. I really dig the newer style mounts... we will soo if they're worth using





somewhat unrelated, john, did the Camaro frame rails fit totally outside of the '53? that is, could the lay together before cutting?


Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
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Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1040

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
11-09-17 02:28 PM - Post#2713814    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

One of the issues to consider here relative to the general installation of the engine is the resulting overall drivetrain angle, down to low in the rear can cause driveshaft angles that can be hard to correct. My engine sitting at 7 degrees down, to correct the overall u joint angles I have to raise the drivetrain at the trans mount, I don't have enough room to the floor to get it where I want. Even shimming the diff isn't quite enough.



 
40grit 
Contributor
Posts: 319
40grit
Age: 72
Loc: Chattanooga, Tn
Reg: 07-08-13
11-09-17 04:28 PM - Post#2713829    
    In response to drew1987

  • drew1987 Said:
...........



.............somewhat unrelated, john, did the Camaro frame rails fit totally outside of the '53? that is, could the lay together before cutting?




Not where I cut mine. If you use the kick down of the subframe and splice them further back, they will intersect........but....You will be lowering the car a tremendous amount and cosequently will raise the front crossmember you referred to as well as the engine.

John



Just Slightly Abrasive


Edited by 40grit on 11-09-17 04:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2843
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
11-09-17 05:20 PM - Post#2713835    
    In response to 40grit

John,

thanks for that! I have looked for the part in your 270 page thread where you did the clip but never found it (probably cause I get 5 minutes at a time to look)

I know the lower A arms are supposed to be parallel to the floor... about what ride height do you think you'll have (compared to stock 53 chevy) with where you grafted and stock 67 Camaro spindles? I am currently down 2.5" and love the look but could give up a little of that. I know camrao is wider....

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2843
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
11-09-17 05:22 PM - Post#2713836    
    In response to drew1987

shepherd I think the goal is to have a level (or tiled 1feg down) carb mounting surface right? that's about what I have now but the car has rake so maybe its technically not what I have...

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
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40grit 
Contributor
Posts: 319
40grit
Age: 72
Loc: Chattanooga, Tn
Reg: 07-08-13
11-09-17 05:47 PM - Post#2713838    
    In response to drew1987

  • drew1987 Said:
John,

thanks for that! I have looked for the part in your 270 page thread where you did the clip but never found it (probably cause I get 5 minutes at a time to look)

I know the lower A arms are supposed to be parallel to the floor... about what ride height do you think you'll have (compared to stock 53 chevy) with where you grafted and stock 67 Camaro spindles? I am currently down 2.5" and love the look but could give up a little of that. I know camrao is wider....



The link I posted on your other thread will take you to where the subframe work began. (page 215)

It appears to me I am going to be close to stock height. Maybe down a little. I want the car level and will install dropped spindles if necessary. I already have 2" lowering blocks in the rear.

John

Just Slightly Abrasive


Edited by 40grit on 11-09-17 05:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2843
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
11-09-17 07:08 PM - Post#2713845    
    In response to 40grit

John, I just worry about needing the drop spindles cause that means discs, too and I probly won't have the cash. But, the frame needs to go where it needs to go, so I won't have a choice. Also, that link send me to the first page but that was on a mobile device I'll try it on my desktop

Thanks!

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
johnwd98 
Contributor
Posts: 234
johnwd98
Age: 68
Loc: Little Falls, MN
Reg: 09-05-10
11-10-17 05:49 AM - Post#2713879    
    In response to 40grit

Has anyone here ever had any experience with a broken motor mount in a car during the 60's? My most memorable occurrence was with a 67 Biscayne with a 300 hp 327. I turned a corner, stepped on the pedal a little to hard and it went to the floor. I finished the corner with tires burning, almost to the point of drifting. I was moving pretty fast before I figured out that the only thing I could do was turn off the ignition switch. This all happened in front of the local library Haha. After changing motor mounts, I found out somehow, about a recall. Went to the local Chevy dealership, and they gave me a "kit" to fix the problem. The kit consisted of a cable that wrapped around the frame and bolted to the engine...no new motor mounts were included, if I remember right. That I believe was the original reason for the change in design of motor mounts. Actually that couldn't happen anymore with cable driven or drive by wire throttle pedals. The only time I can remember when an engine came out of a car during a crash is when the car was actually ripped in half...no survivors. This does not (of course) include nitro fueled drag racing, not usually seen on city streets or highways anyway, Haha.



 
rcr3 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2868
rcr3
Age: 66
Loc: Manheim Pa. U.S.A.
Reg: 11-24-02
11-10-17 08:04 AM - Post#2713896    
    In response to johnwd98

Had it happen on my '68 Camaro while making a pass at Maplegrove Drag strip in 1970.I went to my friends speed shop and bought a Moroso solid motor mount for the left side.Never had that problem again.

'12 Cruze RS LTZ
'73 Nova hatchback Sold 12/23/12
'37 Chevy cp.SOLD!!6/7/14
'74 Nova Custom cp.
'73 Nova pro-street project
'17 Chevy Trax LT
'00 S10 Ex cab
'06 Z71 Sierra Ex Cab
'67 Camaro survivor




 
40grit 
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40grit
Age: 72
Loc: Chattanooga, Tn
Reg: 07-08-13
11-10-17 09:48 AM - Post#2713907    
    In response to drew1987

  • drew1987 Said:
John, I just worry about needing the drop spindles cause that means discs, too and I probly won't have the cash. But, the frame needs to go where it needs to go, so I won't have a choice. Also, that link send me to the first page but that was on a mobile device I'll try it on my desktop

Thanks!



It does all add up for sure. The stock Camaro rotors and calipers aren't too bad though.

Many people don't realize the conversion to discs widens the front track about 3/4 of an inch

John

Just Slightly Abrasive


Edited by 40grit on 11-10-17 09:49 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
11-10-17 05:15 PM - Post#2713959    
    In response to 40grit

I am among those that didn't know! Yikes. Hopefully I can stick with drums. I don't imagine drop spindles exist for drums, though. And if they did, the cylinder would need to be rotated into a different position

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
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Bel Air kiwi 
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Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
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11-11-17 05:49 AM - Post#2713997    
    In response to rcr3

Hi John/Rcr3, Most comp drag cars use engine plates and solid mounted engines so are more contained in a spill, however at the top end the speeds and forces are real intense and they can still come out.

We mostly do engine mount through bolts on street based but fairly serious cars. I have them on my "T" bucket as the fiberglass body with a metal firewall isn't enough to keep the engine and trans in place in a serious rollover.

We have a 61 Mph speed limit here so its not such an issue on the road but that's only getting into 2nd gear on the strip.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
drew1987 
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drew1987
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11-11-17 05:02 PM - Post#2714060    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

There are these plates that are part of the frame in some built cars... they either match the bell housing AND OR front bolt holes of the block. That’s not going anywhere lol

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
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VANDENPLAS 
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VANDENPLAS
Age: 38
Loc: ontario canada
Reg: 07-29-09
11-11-17 05:19 PM - Post#2714064    
    In response to drew1987

Yeah drew those plates aren't called a front mount and mid plate

With your quest for noise and vibration dampening this will definitely not help!!!! Lol
!!!

" The chain in those handcuffs is made of high tensile steel. It will take you ten minutes to hack through it with this, if your lucky. You can hack through your ankle in fivei



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king 👑


 
drew1987 
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drew1987
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11-11-17 07:22 PM - Post#2714087    
    In response to VANDENPLAS

Yea I think I’d prefer the motor in my lap hahah



Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
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Bel Air kiwi 
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Bel Air kiwi
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11-12-17 05:11 PM - Post#2714187    
    In response to drew1987

Hi Drew, careful what you wish for.

Very little chance in a full sedan that you will wear the engine, but if you head on a semi at highway speed the direction the transmission goes will definitely effect surviveability.

Its not much more than the screws in the lift off cover and the rear soft mount if you don't use a loop over trans bracket.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
50hotrod 
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50hotrod
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11-12-17 05:44 PM - Post#2714192    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Drew,

In the mid 60's, Chevy had a problem with the rubber motor mounts. Basically, the adhesive bounding (vulcanizing) of the rubber to the metal would fail. They sent a cable hold down to the dealerships to install on the affected vehicles. This stopped the engine from lifting during hard acceleration if the mount failed.

After that, all motor mounts were improved. We had to do a lot of hole shots to break a factory rubber mounts with a stock engine after that.

With the configuration of your engine and trans, I doubt you will have a problem. If you are worried about it, a safety cable or chain from the frame to a motor mount pad bolt will stop the engine from lifting if a mount should fail.


Well, you know what's wrong with the world today

People done gone put their Bible's away

They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land

"Simple Man" By Charlie Daniels



 
drew1987 
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drew1987
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Reg: 02-23-14
11-13-17 03:44 AM - Post#2714217    
    In response to 50hotrod

Kiwi that’s a scary image- head in with a semi. At highway speeds. 0 chance of survivability regardless of what the tranny does

50hotrod if I used 60’s mounts i would be satisfied but I’m planning on 80’s mounts anyway. I like the way the bolt “floats” in the rubber and am betting it will absorb a little bit more vibration

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
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VANDENPLAS 
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VANDENPLAS
Age: 38
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11-13-17 07:57 AM - Post#2714232    
    In response to drew1987

Had a 69 Lincoln a few years back with a 460 that was warmed over a bit ( thing was a bloody bullet !!)

Left side mount came apart under hard acceleration jammed the fan into the shroud and stuck the throttle open!!

Slipped it into neutral and shut it down. Limped it home, changed my pants and ordered a nos left side mount ( no aftermarket available ) ameba chained the left side of the motor

I would be looking at the type of rubber used in the mounts as to wether it will help with noise and vibration over new/old style

Maybe something out of a caddy or Buick that would be built softer ? Just thinking out loud right now

" The chain in those handcuffs is made of high tensile steel. It will take you ten minutes to hack through it with this, if your lucky. You can hack through your ankle in fivei



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king 👑


 
drew1987 
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drew1987
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11-13-17 08:12 AM - Post#2714235    
    In response to VANDENPLAS

It appears that Cadillacs from the 80s, assuming they were still rear wheel drive, actually use the same mount as Chevy . Both were fairly isolated compared to my hot rod style mounds! That Lincoln story sounds like it was a bit crazy… I had a throttle stick once… Throttlebody cleaner and a toothbrush fix that

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
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Bel Air kiwi 
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Bel Air kiwi
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11-14-17 05:36 PM - Post#2714391    
    In response to drew1987

Hi Guys, I haven't chained an engine but we have a jalopy class here that intentionally crash and they use multi-strand cables. Big hits there.

Breaking the mount bonds is common and the bolt fix is quick and simple. You can even tighten them up a touch at the track. The only thing we chain is lower arms on cars that wheel-stand to save the shocks etc.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
4dr 57 
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4dr 57
Loc: Texas Hill Country
Reg: 11-10-04
11-14-17 07:05 PM - Post#2714414    
    In response to drew1987

  • drew1987 Said:
another thing is tapping the holes in the pate so they are threaded and welded but barely 1/2 a thread will contact....




weld a nut on the back/front.



 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
12-01-17 11:27 AM - Post#2716553    
    In response to 4dr 57

Taking my time

Attachment: 4F85DA66-531E-43C6-8BD1-A77B50061D51.jpeg (3.58 MB) 6 View(s)




Attachment: FED33607-BA6F-4FD0-A81F-20F2B4320243.jpeg (2.98 MB) 4 View(s)




Attachment: 5D04AE81-4A6D-4321-80EB-99D933176A93.jpeg (3.74 MB) 4 View(s)




Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
Bel Air kiwi 
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Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
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12-01-17 11:17 PM - Post#2716616    
    In response to drew1987

Hi Drew, those parts are coming up nice. I have a better use for alcohol than paint prep and you will find a product called "Prepsol" is normally used.
It's a mild solvent and degreaser. It may have another name in the US so check the paint and panel section.
Check your property insurance to see how much you can have at home. Sometimes they get quite nasty about this.

For a lasting finish on those you really want something like POR 15 or a catalyzing paint if you don't want to go as far as powder coating. Bug spray tends to wash and chip off too easy.

Cheers Kiwi




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2843
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
12-02-17 04:55 AM - Post#2716628    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Kiwi,

Insurance would care how much prepsol I have? Also how did you know I prep with isopropyl?

And bug spray?! Funny lol. I used rustoleum.

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
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Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-02-17 03:19 PM - Post#2716664    
    In response to drew1987

Hi Drew, I don't know about US contracts but our insurers don't allow storage of more than a gallon of any accelerant. Ie petrol, paint solvents, alcohols, degreasers, etc. Look in the fine print.

By Bug spray, I just mean spray can products that apply a general purpose craft paint.
If you want to be able to steam clean or water blast then it needs to be a two part or catalyzing paint.

The Black dip that was on the underside of our bodies before painting was always baked so although it was nothing like as tough as two pack, it was far more resilient than air cure spray can stuff.

Unfortunately there isn't really a middle ground between 5 minute wonder and lifetime coating when restoring.
I Know I never want to do a car underside twice.

Cheers Kiwi



48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
drew1987 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2843
drew1987
Age: 30
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
12-04-17 06:56 AM - Post#2716825    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Kiwi,

Most store 5 gallons of gas or more, it very well could be one of those things that ARENT ok becuase everyone does it...


as for the paint, I am not too concerned for how it wears, just want it to all start out "new" looking. If in 10 years it looks like a 5 year old car underneath, thats ok. I am more or less just trying to keep busy becuase I had my heart set on doing this project this winter and now I cant. We are selling out house and it doesnt seem like a good idea to tear apart and possible cut the frame of a running, driving car when I am most certain it will have to be moved

it sucks!


Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3813
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-04-17 08:29 PM - Post#2716910    
    In response to drew1987

Hi Drew, I think the difference between rattle can paint and the real deal is more like 30 days v 30 years.
Given the prep is about the same I would stump up the beer vouchers and do it right once. You're not planning on ever selling are you?

That said if you are planning on reworking a part later, don't two pack or powder coat it until it's finished.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-04-17 08:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

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