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Username Post: looking for info/help on a 1996 k3500 pickup        (Topic#347994)
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
10-31-17 06:36 PM - Post#2712882    

I am going to look at a 1996 K3500 ext cab dually this sunday or monday (its 3 1/2 hours each way so i want to make it count) he is asking $1500 obo on the post but after some extensive phone calls, he has said twice if i am interested in it then just shoot him my best offer. i have a link attached of a video he sent me from this fall it was 60F out and the truck was warmed up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF03puNeX4I

He says the exhaust smells rich, and he broke the "intake" pipe going from the rad shroud to the turbo that has the IAT sensor, so that might explain the cloud of smoke/haze

No muffler or cat, just straight 4" pipe to a 7" tip.

new pmd but not mounted yet because he was going to relocate it to under the brake booster but never got time.

Says there is a new pipe for the intake to turbo, hasnt been driven like that except once 30 miles to where it sits now which is 3 hours from where he now lives so he cant really work on it.

Claims a water leak from a freeze plug leaves a puddle on the ground after it shuts off, and its leaking oil where the dipstick goes in? ill be checking that stuff myself but its going to be



One thing that i really didnt like to hear was that he had to start it with ether everytime when it was cold out because the glow plugs werent working unless he bought the diesel safe one, idk they have those up here, they say starting fluid, some say gasoline engines only, and other says good for diesel or gasoline engines.

Ill probably use WD40 to start it like i had to on my 6.2 until i fixed the glow plugs.



Assuming i dont smell/taste coolant when i start it up, is there anything else i need to check out to why it would be hazing at idle? someone said it sounds like its missing in the video, but my ears arent tuned enough to tell.



Also plan to flat tow it back behind my gmc jimmy if i dont think its ready enough to drive back towing the jimmy. ive seen 6,200-6,600lbs online, does that seem on par with a 1ton empty truck? if so the tow bar and the jimmy should be able to handle it, ill just have to drive 5mph slower and brake alot earlier if i have to go that route.

Any specifics to look for/at while im there? i mean as long as it drives up to 60mph and shifts all 4 gears i can work on anything else. im probably gonna throw $1100 at him, since it needs that sensor or pipe (unless its actually there), whatever is causing the haze needs to be corrected, and relocate the pmd for sure. then fix those 2 leaks. its not pretty on the outside bc its been bedlined, but what little i have seen of the inside its pretty clean, he said buckets with center console, no rips or stains, and everything works except he blew a fuse for the dome lights. its also going to need new mirrors as a tree broke one off and someone kicked the other. and needs the reciever forcibly removed, and cleaned. and marker lights for the front.

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
Low priced Genuine GM Auto Parts
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
10-31-17 07:00 PM - Post#2712883    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

also any recommendations to get the codes? SES light was on in the video so im sure its got a code, im going to go through all my boxes this week and try and find my bluetooth ELM obd2 scanner. it worked on a few vehicles before, just not sure if it supports the 6.5l data stream


1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
stumppuller 
"7th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 794
stumppuller
Loc: Canada
Reg: 11-01-04
10-31-17 08:11 PM - Post#2712887    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Personally, I would run from that truck.

I have very little diesel experience, but that much white smoke is either a cold diesel being driven too soon after startup, or a blown head gasket. As far as I know, diesels usually have black smoke when running rich. And it does sound like it's missing.

Why do you want this truck? The engine sounds pretty bad and the body has been poorly bedlined. I would suspect it's been badly abused and poorly maintained. I guess I'm not seeing $1500 worth of good parts.

As for flat towing it with a Jimmy, I would strongly advise against that. Your brakes will be severely overloaded with that much weight pushing you. That truck will easily weigh over 6000 lbs.

-91 Sierra C2500, now K2500
-81 Chev K20


 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
10-31-17 09:36 PM - Post#2712894    
    In response to stumppuller

  • stumppuller Said:
Personally, I would run from that truck.

I have very little diesel experience, but that much white smoke is either a cold diesel being driven too soon after startup, or a blown head gasket. As far as I know, diesels usually have black smoke when running rich. And it does sound like it's missing.

Why do you want this truck? The engine sounds pretty bad and the body has been poorly bedlined. I would suspect it's been badly abused and poorly maintained. I guess I'm not seeing $1500 worth of good parts.

As for flat towing it with a Jimmy, I would strongly advise against that. Your brakes will be severely overloaded with that much weight pushing you. That truck will easily weigh over 6000 lbs.




I've pulled alot more than 6,000lbs with it before but I already decided against it. I'll take my wife's 1500. Rated for 7,500lbs. So it'll be close to max but I know it can do it.

Next to the white smoke I've read dozens of forums that say injectors going bad and not spraying properly will cause white smoke due to unburnt fuel. The 6.2l will do it too if the injectors are going to crap.


And a obs roller 4x4 1 ton truck roller with no engine or trans goes for over 1000 most times. I would be painting it camouflage so the bed liner is irrelevant to me. It would come with new tow mirrors, and a set of led bulbs for the rest of the truck.


I am poor, no credit and I wanted a 3/4 or 1 ton with a 6.5 or 5.9 TD for our trips cross country with a truck camper and possibly a toad because the TD can manage 14 to 18mpg where the 454 can only get 8 to 10 doing the same tasks.


I specifically asked him what the exhaust smells like. He said it smells like unbirnt fuel. Definitly not coolant. I will verify this Sunday when I go see it and check blowby.

If it's burning coolant due to a head gasket it will be a pretty obvious smell. I can't afford to buy a truck at 100% outright even with Me and the wife working full time but I can afford to buy a fixer upper and put it all together. Cosmetics are largely irrelevant to me as long as I can get it 100% functional. Even if it means I go and buy this other 6.5l that runs excellent in the cclb 2wd and make 1 good truck from the 2 of them.

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
10-31-17 09:40 PM - Post#2712895    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Also (although I have no way to verify this) he says he took it to a shop he trusts 6 months ago and had them look it over and they said it's not thr head gasket that they could tell and not a cracked block and to rebuild it with new injectors, and IP and PMD. It was gonna run him about 2K with labor. He already got a new PMD. And the next thing would be injectors if I don't smell coolant in the exhaust. If I do smell coolant or can feel residue I'll offer less to refleCT that. I know I can grab the cclb 1994 truck for 600 and bring it home. So I'd offer like 800 for the dually if it's got coolant burning

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
CowboyTrukr 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3761
CowboyTrukr
Loc: Salt Lake City
Reg: 06-20-09
11-01-17 05:15 AM - Post#2712922    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

G, it’s easy to pull the trouble codes.

A paper clip is all you need. Short the A & B pins in the ODB1 port. (Top right and the one adjacent to the left of it). Turn on the key (don’t start it) and count the flashes in the check engine light. See the FAQ in this forum to see what codes show up. A one flash two flash represents a 12. That’s normal. It’s just the computer telling you it’s expecting the distributor to be turning when the key is on. Any other stored codes show up between the 12’s.

Save yourself some time. Your ELM won’t work because the ELM is only OBD2 compatible. The 3500 has the same OBD1 port as your wife’s 1500.

Greg

'95 K1500 Z71 EC Short Step 5.7L+0.040/NV3500
'00 Explorer XLT 4.0 V6 Auto
'94 K2500 5.7 NV4500 ECLB - SOLD

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Sir Edmund Burke


 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-01-17 06:19 AM - Post#2712927    
    In response to CowboyTrukr

It has an obd1 even though it's a 1996? I thought gm went to obd2 by the end of 1995 production and beginning officially in the 1996 model year?

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
CowboyTrukr 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3761
CowboyTrukr
Loc: Salt Lake City
Reg: 06-20-09
11-01-17 10:16 AM - Post#2712941    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Doh! My bad. Never mind. I had two threads open and got crossed up.

Greg

'95 K1500 Z71 EC Short Step 5.7L+0.040/NV3500
'00 Explorer XLT 4.0 V6 Auto
'94 K2500 5.7 NV4500 ECLB - SOLD

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Sir Edmund Burke


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 28411
someotherguy
Age: 47
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
11-01-17 11:19 AM - Post#2712954    
    In response to CowboyTrukr

In my experience the cheapie ELM units won't read GM trucks. If it refuses to connect, it wouldn't surprise me. I ended up getting one from BAFX Products, still inexpensive, and works like a champ on my GM stuff. It's about $25 shipped.

I have to agree on avoiding this truck, though. I understand not having a bunch of money to throw at an initial purchase, but that would be even more of a reason to not buy a money pit. And trust me it sounds exactly...exactly...like a money pit.

Richard

06 Silverado ISS / 06 Silverado SS / 06 300C SRT8


 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3650

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
11-01-17 12:13 PM - Post#2712963    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:
  • stumppuller Said:

I am poor, no credit and I wanted a 3/4 or 1 ton with a 6.5 or 5.9 TD for our trips cross country with a truck camper and possibly a toad because the TD can manage 14 to 18mpg where the 454 can only get 8 to 10 doing the same tasks.




Don't waste your time on a diesel!!! They are a maintenance nightmare. What you save on fuel for the 454 will quickly be spent on mechanical work on that POS 6.5. The 5.9 is ok, but they still have their quirks and something as simple as an injection pump will set you back over $1K. The 6.5 is also a GUTLESS wonder compared to a 454. Honestly speaking if you are looking at a GMT400 chassis go with the best one out there, find you a 2001-2002 3500HD with the 8.1/4L85E.

1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-02-17 04:13 PM - Post#2713096    
    In response to 1983G20Van

Well the buyer backed out on my suburban, so i informed the seller of this fact, he asked for pictures, and said if i want to come look at it this weekend and decide that i want it, he would trade my suburban v20 project + $500 cash on his end.


The 6.5's ive driven in work trucks were all 3/4 ton ext cab long beds, some 2wd and some 4wd, but that 6.5 would get double the fuel economy of any of the trucks with a 350, 454 or even the 6.0 my boss tried out for about 4 months pulling various loads across the entire state.

While some say gutless wonder, its still got more balls than the 6.2l i had before lol, but 385tq at 1600rpm is almost equal to the tbi 454, a standard 13psi tbi 454 is rated at 380-390ft-lbs at 2400rpm, and mine is 410ft-lbs at 2400 rpm. other than turbo lag i dont see much difference in pulling power, and the 454 will pass everything except a gas station ha.


If I pull the oil cap and there is tons of blowby or the exhaust smells like coolant,or i see bubbles in the radiator, 70% chance Ill pass on it, but i also already know i can get that 1994 k3500 with everything except a PMD for $700 and drop the engine in, and sell the roller for $300-$500. also have 2 other 6.5ls running in trucks right now i can buy in the $700-$800 range, and a IP pulled from a wrecked 95 truck with 120K on it for $200.

I mean if hes giving me $500 cash on top of my trade, i will be down like $200 in gas and a trailer rental to bring it home, but i just put another $400-$500 on top of whats left and i can have the engine replaced and tear down the old one and rebuild/improve it over the winter and put it in when spring comes.




Oh on a side note, after seeing and hearing the experiences from a few people i know, that had trucks with the 8.1L and driving a few, one in a suburban and one in a K2500hd with an allison i think, it was the NBS IIRC, I wont touch one with a 10 foot pole, for the amount of displacement the power output is a joke, fuel economy is equal to the 454 or less at times, but the 454 usually walks all over the 8.1l i dont know gear ratios but ive watched 2 almost identical pickups one with a stock 8.1l vortec and one with a 7.4l vortec race a few times, 7.4l only had CAI, and new bigger exhaust that i know of, and that 7.4l ate the 8.1l alive, every. single. time.

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-02-17 06:11 PM - Post#2713108    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

So i just punched in a 1996 K3500 ext cab, silverado, dually 198K, power windows, locks, and cd player, and KBB shows this trucks value is $5,000 in poor condition but using the quiz it fell in the good category im guessing because of the interior and minimal rust besides cab corners, rocker panels and fenders. $5361 in good condition

Now of course KBB doesnt have a way to rate "poor" due the engine smoking, but it did ask about mechanical and i put down needs repairs, the other worse choice was inoperable engine/transmission needs replacement, which is not really true because it runs and drives, and was driven 30 miles at interstate speed to park it at the lake cabin.

Lets assume he was being honest about the interior being exceptionally clean and complete, and no odor, if i drop a different engine in or repair this one, put on a set of matching tires (the tires are really low in the one pic i zoomed in), took my time to remove the bedliner, install marker lights, and finish attaching the new exhaust it would fall under "good" to "very good" depending on how nice the paint is under the bedliner (probably not very)

So i could trade my suburban + get $500 cash, that would put me about $2000 invested approx with what all ive got into that V20, lets say the engine is not salvageable even with new injectors, IP and head gaskets. ($500 + several hours of my time and a learning curve) and i choose to just replace the engine with one running fine with similar miles or been rebuilt with similar miles.

I am then roughly $3000 in the hole, assuming $100 aftermarket front marker lights, $150 for a set of towing mirrors (with LED turn signals) $700 for a drop in running 6.5l complete engine and $200 for a set of used 245/70r16's on facebook.

It would then bluebook for ~$5,400, if i sold it with 50,000 more miles the bluebook value drops $200-$300, i could sell it (if i wanted to) for $1000 less than blue book and still make out like a bandit.



I just remembered i have to see what he meant when he said the front diff has been removed. that could end up costing me $500 just for that at a junkyard

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-04-17 05:11 PM - Post#2713283    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

well after he just called its pretty well decided, he offered that i could take it home tomorrow if i choose to, he holds the title until paid off, and payments for a total of $800, new $400 exhaust, and I could go get one of those running 6.5s for $700, put it in and be only $1500 invested before lights and mirrors. tires i can get cheap and mounted for free, just have to drop them off to get balanced. I think thats a decent deal. Im gonna post my rust free power everything suburban doors, and the front clip from the 91 and see if i can rack up some cash fast, i hate owing people money but i also cant turn down a good deal. im still gonna run it, drive it a bit, im bringing 5gal of winter treated diesel, power service, lucas injector cleaner, and a bottle of 911, but the overnight temp is only 21 and summer blend gels at 12F so it shouldnt be gelled up. WD40 to start it, if the glow plugs are shot, and my tow bar with fresh brackets i made at work today with 2"x2"x 1/4" thick steel angle iron.

Curb weight for the average 96 C/k3500/2500 ranged from 5800# to 6600# with fuel and passenger. so if im in the 6000# range my wifes truck should do fine, it pulled just over 5000# worth of jimmy and cargo plus the bed completely packed and 2 kids in the back seat. but since the weather decided to dump snow everywhere im gonna be going like 45 on the way back


Gonna leave it in D and take it easy, and if the roads look slightly wet or slick, im just gonna leave it in 4HI

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-07-17 03:30 PM - Post#2713603    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Ok so i went up and started it, sadly no video because it was 14F out and my phone kept shutting off.

I checked the oil first, and it was 2-3 qts over full, but the truck was also on a hill so ill have to check it again after its sitting level, and it smelled like diesel.

I poured in 1 gallon of coolant and 1 gallon of water into thge resevoior because there is no cap on the radiator, by the time i connected the jumper cables it was already dripping out from somewhere near the top of the block drivers side, looks like it was dripping between the block and bell housing, but it was freezing out so i didnt investigate further.

The volt meter did not drop very much while the glow plugs were engaged, so im pretty sure atleast half have failed.

It did not start under its own fuel, i tried WD40, but it was not enough left in the can, he had a can of "deisel safe" starting fluid. i had him stand about 5 feet away and shoot a short burst at the turbo once it started spinning. it fired up almost instantly.

I put it in gear after running a few minutes and the speedo went up to about 60, and im 90% sure i heard it shift all gears.

the front axle assembly is gone, only passenger CV shaft is still there, not all too worried about that since i priced out a used one online from a couple junkyards and with shipping itll be about $350.


10,000 GVWR, 3.73 axles. 4l80e

Turbo shaft has a little play and i mean very little.

It has sat for about 3 months and batteries were still charged so thats a good sign.

I only made it about halfway home with it due to running out of fuel

ill post more info as i figure it out.

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
454cid 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2421
454cid
Age: 44
Loc: West Michigan
Reg: 02-18-12
11-07-17 04:26 PM - Post#2713607    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:

the front axle assembly is gone, only passenger CV shaft is still there, not all too worried about that since i priced out a used one online from a couple junkyards and with shipping itll be about $350.



Don't drive it without CV shafts, or you'll destroy your unit hubs/bearings.




99 K3500 RCLB


 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3650

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
11-09-17 06:23 AM - Post#2713750    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:
Well the buyer backed out on my suburban, so i informed the seller of this fact, he asked for pictures, and said if i want to come look at it this weekend and decide that i want it, he would trade my suburban v20 project + $500 cash on his end.


The 6.5's ive driven in work trucks were all 3/4 ton ext cab long beds, some 2wd and some 4wd, but that 6.5 would get double the fuel economy of any of the trucks with a 350, 454 or even the 6.0 my boss tried out for about 4 months pulling various loads across the entire state.

While some say gutless wonder, its still got more balls than the 6.2l i had before lol, but 385tq at 1600rpm is almost equal to the tbi 454, a standard 13psi tbi 454 is rated at 380-390ft-lbs at 2400rpm, and mine is 410ft-lbs at 2400 rpm. other than turbo lag i dont see much difference in pulling power, and the 454 will pass everything except a gas station ha.


If I pull the oil cap and there is tons of blowby or the exhaust smells like coolant,or i see bubbles in the radiator, 70% chance Ill pass on it, but i also already know i can get that 1994 k3500 with everything except a PMD for $700 and drop the engine in, and sell the roller for $300-$500. also have 2 other 6.5ls running in trucks right now i can buy in the $700-$800 range, and a IP pulled from a wrecked 95 truck with 120K on it for $200.

I mean if hes giving me $500 cash on top of my trade, i will be down like $200 in gas and a trailer rental to bring it home, but i just put another $400-$500 on top of whats left and i can have the engine replaced and tear down the old one and rebuild/improve it over the winter and put it in when spring comes.




Oh on a side note, after seeing and hearing the experiences from a few people i know, that had trucks with the 8.1L and driving a few, one in a suburban and one in a K2500hd with an allison i think, it was the NBS IIRC, I wont touch one with a 10 foot pole, for the amount of displacement the power output is a joke, fuel economy is equal to the 454 or less at times, but the 454 usually walks all over the 8.1l i dont know gear ratios but ive watched 2 almost identical pickups one with a stock 8.1l vortec and one with a 7.4l vortec race a few times, 7.4l only had CAI, and new bigger exhaust that i know of, and that 7.4l ate the 8.1l alive, every. single. time.



I can tell you right now that a 6.5 diesel will not get double the fuel economy of a 350! In my Express conversion van that is converted to 1-ton that would be 36 mpg! The 350 gets 18 mpg and drops to about 12-14 while towing 6,000 lbs of car & flat deck trailer. With my travel trailer it drops a little more from the 8' wide, 11' tall, 23' long box I am pulling behind me catching all that wind.

As for the 8.1 being gutless. The stock engine tuning has ALOT to do with that. When you lean out the crazy rich air/fuel ratio, add a little timing, and remove a lot of the torque management they become a completely different animal.

I dropped one into my 1983 G20 Van about 6 months ago and just got it up and running last month. It has the intake manifold cut open, the intake baffle removed, has a GM performance parts 454/502 HO cam, new springs & retainers, long tube 2nd gen Camaro headers and dual 3" exhaust. The PCM is custom tuned and it has a 4L85E with a 4.3 Express van torque converter. I swapped from a 3.08 rear gear to a 2.73 rear gear while I had the differential apart. Despite gearing that I can run 0-60 mph in 1st gear by 5,200 rpm, the thing burns the tires off through most of first if you stomp it. I have run several 5.3/6.0 AND A 6.2, the new Hemi Rams and an Ecoboost as well as a couple of new 5.0 Mustangs. From a stop I outrun them all. The Mustangs get away on the top-end but the others cannot hang. Then again even with the big block the van only weighs 4,700 lbs.


1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 11-09-17 06:24 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MiragePilot 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Reg: 08-18-16
11-09-17 02:54 PM - Post#2713819    
    In response to 1983G20Van

WOW! Getting spanked in a drag race by a full size Chevy van when you're in a Mustang has got to really ruin the Mustang driver's day!!

1996 Chevy Express 1500 conversion van (Starcraft Hi-Top Conversion)


Edited by MiragePilot on 11-09-17 02:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-10-17 09:00 PM - Post#2713975    
    In response to 1983G20Van

  • 1983G20Van Said:

I can tell you right now that a 6.5 diesel will not get double the fuel economy of a 350! In my Express conversion van that is converted to 1-ton that would be 36 mpg! The 350 gets 18 mpg and drops to about 12-14 while towing 6,000 lbs of car & flat deck trailer. With my travel trailer it drops a little more from the 8' wide, 11' tall, 23' long box I am pulling behind me catching all that wind.

I have never been in a express/savanna that could get 18mpg highway, but i have also never driven one with 3.08's. my adpotive dad has a express 1500 just had the 350 replaced and they average 12-14 with just the family loaded in (6 kids and 2 adults if im remembering the current count) and luggage. but i think he has 3.42 or something close to that.


When i say double the fuel economy, i am comparing apples to apples, stock to stock.

Example: Chevy K2500 one was a RCLB with the 5.7, the other was a 6.5lTD ECLB. We used one or the other for pulling equipment all over town 8-12 hours a day 6 to 7 days a week ( yes that job sucked, and hence why i no longer work there) loaded the back of the bed 1ft over the top with wet/dry grass clippings which are very heavy and adds up fast. we also made a 800 mile round trip run once a week. many many hills when you get to western ND, some so steep even the new 3/4 ton with the 6.0 could barely hold on.

Last i checked 4 years ago (he doesnt have the RCLB anymore) they were both geared at 3.73 according to the glovebox.

The 350 truck would average 6-8mpg in town every single day and struggle when loaded with clippings and a fully loaded trailer plus 2-3 adults (me and 2 gals that worked there too at the time so maybe 550 for all 3 of us) and get 10-12ish highway and could not pull the hills in western ND any higher than 2nd gear, again fully loaded.

The 6.5l was an entire different ballpark, it averaged 10-14 in town unless i was really getting in the pedal alot (not quite double i know) and it would get 18-20 highway if i kept it under 62mph.


I also know people who pull campers, race cars, horse trailers, hay bales, etc. and between them you could probably find every combination of 5.9l, 7.3 TD, 6.9 NA, 6.2L NA, 6.5L TD, 6.6TD, manual, auto, geared from 3.08-4.56. I have personally ridden with people with the 7.3l and 6.5l pulling pretty much the exact same load (usually horses, or derby cars) and getting 14-18mpg doing it. then you got other guys pulling similar trailers with a 350 or 454 and they complain about getting 10-12 with a 350 and 7-9 with the 454, the 350's always complain it lacks power, and the 454 owners are always bitching about how they cant pass a gas station.


I have owned i dont know how many combinations myself of gas engines, 2.2l, 2.5l, 4.3, 3.1. 3.3, 3.8, 5.0, 5.1, 5.8, 5.7, 6.6, 7.4.

The best i ever got from a gasser towing a load was in a 1979 G30 motorhome, 400 small block timing advanced,homemade ram air intake under the grille, TH400, 4.10 gears, and fully loaded when were homeless, pulling the inlaws camper they were living in about 7000-,9000lbs in tow, i got 18mpg going 50-55mph.


Another example, im towing this pile of poopoo k3500 home with my wifes 95 350/4l60e combo, 3.42 gears. I can barely hold 3rd at 45-50mph if any hills come up, and its getting 7mpg average pulling 7,000lbs worth of truck. I personally know guys that pull that much with a 6.5l half ton and get 12-14 doing it all day long, and tell me they can stay in OD. thats because even a wimpy stock 6.5l has 80-90 more ft-lbs of tq available to move the same load.


Every gasser work truck, even ones with less than 100K on the clock, while they may move the load better than some older diesels, they can never touch the same fuel economy, even with the same gearing and tires.



/





As for the 8.1 being gutless. The stock engine tuning has ALOT to do with that. When you lean out the crazy rich air/fuel ratio, add a little timing, and remove a lot of the torque management they become a completely different animal.

I dont believe the 8.1 could match or beat the same fuel economy as a TD in the exact same pickup with the exact same load, i believe there are ways to wake it up, but i believe a properly tuned turbo diesel will always get better fuel economy under identical circumstances

I dropped one into my 1983 G20 Van about 6 months ago and just got it up and running last month. It has the intake manifold cut open, the intake baffle removed, has a GM performance parts 454/502 HO cam, new springs & retainers, long tube 2nd gen Camaro headers and dual 3" exhaust. The PCM is custom tuned and it has a 4L85E with a 4.3 Express van torque converter. I swapped from a 3.08 rear gear to a 2.73 rear gear while I had the differential apart. Despite gearing that I can run 0-60 mph in 1st gear by 5,200 rpm, the thing burns the tires off through most of first if you stomp it. I have run several 5.3/6.0 AND A 6.2, the new Hemi Rams and an Ecoboost as well as a couple of new 5.0 Mustangs. From a stop I outrun them all. The Mustangs get away on the top-end but the others cannot hang. Then again even with the big block the van only weighs 4,700 lbs.


Shiiiiiiiiiit my wifes k1500 weighs more than your van by about 1200lbs BEFORE i put any tools in lol 3000 over my front and 2800 over the rear with no fuel but that setup in your van sounds fun as hell lol





At this point i dont even know what point i was trying to make anymore, but ive seen and heard countless claims of 6.5s being able to pull off an average of 13-15mpg on the highway going 55-62mph pulling campers or mud toys, i know good and darm well my 454 can pull the load but will only get 8-9mpg doing it, and my wifes 350 would do it but anything over 4,000-5,000, it really has to work hard, and gets 8-12 doing so. Id rather have the ecomony of the diesel, even if it means a learning curve and my wallet has to take a hit for parts or a used engine.

If nothing blows up in my face ill have the truck home tomorrow around noon/1pm and get more pics then upload them to a public facebook album, i bought bars leaks the pellet version, claims it can stop freeze plug leaks, since its only a drip im crossing my fingers that it will either stop it or slow it down enough so that I can focus on the excess fuel issue.

If i could get a bit more power out of the 6.5l eg. tune, better IP, and larger turbo with a wicked wheel maybe, then i could consider gearing down to 3.42 or 3.23 and still have enough power to tow but keep the it turning slow enough to get crazy mpg, idk.

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3650

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
11-11-17 07:18 AM - Post#2714005    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:

I have never been in a express/savanna that could get 18mpg highway, but i have also never driven one with 3.08's. my adpotive dad has a express 1500 just had the 350 replaced and they average 12-14 with just the family loaded in (6 kids and 2 adults if im remembering the current count) and luggage. but i think he has 3.42 or something close to that.

When i say double the fuel economy, i am comparing apples to apples, stock to stock.

I also know people who pull campers, race cars, horse trailers, hay bales, etc. and between them you could probably find every combination of 5.9l, 7.3 TD, 6.9 NA, 6.2L NA, 6.5L TD, 6.6TD, manual, auto, geared from 3.08-4.56. I have personally ridden with people with the 7.3l and 6.5l pulling pretty much the exact same load (usually horses, or derby cars) and getting 14-18mpg doing it. then you got other guys pulling similar trailers with a 350 or 454 and they complain about getting 10-12 with a 350 and 7-9 with the 454, the 350's always complain it lacks power, and the 454 owners are always bitching about how they cant pass a gas station.

I have owned i dont know how many combinations

The best i ever got from a gasser towing a load was in a 1979 G30 motorhome, 400 small block timing advanced,homemade ram air intake under the grille, TH400, 4.10 gears, and fully loaded when were homeless, pulling the inlaws camper they were living in about 7000-,9000lbs in tow, i got 18mpg going 50-55mph.

Another example, im towing this pile of poopoo k3500 home with my wifes 95 350/4l60e combo, 3.42 gears. I can barely hold 3rd at 45-50mph if any hills come up, and its getting 7mpg average pulling 7,000lbs worth of truck.

Every gasser work truck, even ones with less than 100K on the clock, while they may move the load better than some older diesels, they can never touch the same fuel economy, even with the same gearing and tires./


I dont believe the 8.1 could match or beat the same fuel economy as a TD in the exact same pickup with the exact same load, i believe there are ways to wake it up, but i believe a properly tuned turbo diesel will always get better fuel economy under identical circumstances





The Express van fuel economy has stayed almost the same despite what I have done to it. Bone stock L31 350/4L60E/9.5" 14-bolt 3.73s it was 18-19 mpg running 70 mph on the open road with 5 people and stuff inside. Unloaded curb weight was about 5,800 lbs with it often moving down the road at 6,500+. When I swapped the engine I put a cam into it, swapped the intake for the 5.7 Marine intake, swapped over to Tri-Y headers, and swapped the PCM to a LS type and tuned it. Fuel economy was the same 18-19 mpg highway. When I blew the 4L60E up the 2nd time, I put an 80E into it. Running 2,400 rpm @ 70 mph the highway mileage was still the same, city mileage dropped from 14-15 down to 12-13. When I swapped the cam for something bigger, added 2,800 rpm converter, and put 4.56 gears into it the highway fuel mileage dropped about 1 mpg with the engine turning 2,800 rpm @ 70 mpg but the city mileage came up to 14-15 again. Even before the gears while not towing anything the van could run 70 mph up the steepest hills on the interstate as well as most back roads without downshifting or even unlocking the torque converter.

While I do not believe that a gasser could ever do better fuel mileage, I do believe the gasser even the 5.7 Vortec will outperform the 6.5 especially in acceleration and hill climbing and is certainly cheaper per mile than maintaining a 6.5 even if it burns 2x the fuel.

With the 4.56 gears I run currently when I hit a large hill, pulling the 6,000 lbs box of a travel trailer I pull (about 12,200 lbs GCVW), the trans will drop from 4th to 3rd, the 350 will rev up to about 3,600 rpm and it can actually accelerate up most hills if I wanted to.


1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 11-11-17 07:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-11-17 01:27 PM - Post#2714041    
    In response to 1983G20Van

  • 1983G20Van Said:

The Express van fuel economy has stayed almost the same despite what I have done to it. Bone stock L31 350/4L60E/9.5" 14-bolt 3.73s it was 18-19 mpg running 70 mph on the open road with 5 people and stuff inside. Unloaded curb weight was about 5,800 lbs with it often moving down the road at 6,500+. When I swapped the engine I put a cam into it, swapped the intake for the 5.7 Marine intake, swapped over to Tri-Y headers, and swapped the PCM to a LS type and tuned it. Fuel economy was the same 18-19 mpg highway. When I blew the 4L60E up the 2nd time, I put an 80E into it. Running 2,400 rpm @ 70 mph the highway mileage was still the same, city mileage dropped from 14-15 down to 12-13. When I swapped the cam for something bigger, added 2,800 rpm converter, and put 4.56 gears into it the highway fuel mileage dropped about 1 mpg with the engine turning 2,800 rpm @ 70 mpg but the city mileage came up to 14-15 again. Even before the gears while not towing anything the van could run 70 mph up the steepest hills on the interstate as well as most back roads without downshifting or even unlocking the torque converter.

While I do not believe that a gasser could ever do better fuel mileage, I do believe the gasser even the 5.7 Vortec will outperform the 6.5 especially in acceleration and hill climbing and is certainly cheaper per mile than maintaining a 6.5 even if it burns 2x the fuel.

With the 4.56 gears I run currently when I hit a large hill, pulling the 6,000 lbs box of a travel trailer I pull (about 12,200 lbs GCVW), the trans will drop from 4th to 3rd, the 350 will rev up to about 3,600 rpm and it can actually accelerate up most hills if I wanted to.




I really wish i could get 14-16mpg in town with a 350/60e combo, my wifes 95 k1500 gets 8mpg with 10% achohol fuel and 11mpg in town with 87 straight gasoline. and a noticeable different in power when trying to get on the ramps for interstates. (i know thats just because ethanol has less btus of energy potential per gallon)

I just drove 200 miles round trip used 40 in gas, first $20(maybe $22) one way (100 miles) was 87 with 10% ethanol and no load going 65MPH according to GPS used 6.6-7.0 gallons. so approx 14.28-15.2MPG, I put in $20 of 91 no ethanol and pulled the 7,000lb 1-ton all the way back first 20 miles were about 45-50mph in D and the rest of the way i said screw it, im just gonna send it. and went 55-58MPH in OD the rest of the 100 miles, used the same amount of fuel coming back with the 7,000lbs behind it, and in OD probably 60-70 out of the 100 miles.


But i have never seen a pickup with a 350 pull 14mpg in town unless it was 2wd and/or 3.08s and then you couldnt barely get up to speed on a ramp or tow much.

If i can get my wifes pickup up to your numbers i will be thouroughly pleased. And those numbers i listed were with an eggshell foot, if i drive like normally do with 100K other people rushing to work in the morning then i get 5-7mpg in town out of the 5.7l


What could I do for initial investment into the 6.5l to make it cheaper per mile to maintain? Ive got a pickup that KBB's for $5000, i know i have quite a bit of work to do to it mechanically to make it 100% functional, but i do want to step up to the next size turbo, and if the IP does need replacing whatever is the next step up for flow.

I was thinking new harmonic balancer, replace the plastic retainers under the valve covers, relocate the PMD, fresh syn fluids, high volume water pump, and maybe an aux trans cooler, and/or a aux radiator mounted under the bed? i dont know what they are called but ive seen them about 10"x10" electric fan, and running 1" coolant lines to aid in heat dispersion when running AC on a hot day while towing.

What else could be considered to "bulletproof" it so to speak. is seafoam a good or bad idea with the 6.5l?


If absolutely necisarry I will put another 6.5l in that has some service records and is in a running driving pickup and sell this block for someone to build. guy said $700 for a complete 6.5l engine from a driving pickup.

Start throwing ideas at me, im ready to learn and start fixing her up so shes ready by march. only restriction will be budget due to holidays in 2 weeks lol

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-11-17 05:38 PM - Post#2714068    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Ok so here is what ive learned before i got too cold out there:

1. there was a shitton of diesel in the oil, like 3-4 gallons of liquid came out, smelled like some old nasty diesel jerry can that was sitting in the barn for 5 years lol.

2. I rummaged through the 2ft of snow in the bed, and found the following:

2x bed rails painted blue but in decent shape still

wiper arm/motor assembly, but it must be the old one because the wipers work fine.

4x fake chrome rim covers

the elbow for the turbo and 1/2 of the air cleaner assembly, so i popped that on quick.

oil pan plug (an extra or old one im assuming)

the rest of the 4" exhaust system (someone stole my LED fog lights and 7" tip while it was sitting on the side of the road though)

spare rim w/ shot tire

misc interior and exterior trim pieces.

top half of the radiator shroud

3.I popped the oil cap while running and minimal blowby, i mean i have had gasser's with more blowby.


4. I put in a bottle of barsleaks pellets w/water pump lube and 4 gallons of water, and ran it for the 30 minutes it says on the bottle and the drip stopped from the freeze plug and the reservoir was now staying full, and no bubbles while running

5. (this was when i noticed i had 0 oil pressure and shut if off to drain the oil), front driveshaft, and both CV shafts are actually there, just the carrier/differential assembly is gone.

6. 2 grooves of the belt are gone so gonna need one asap

I think it might be low on trans fluid bc i put it in reverse and had to bring the rpms up before it grabbed the gear. but I didnt get to run it long enough to get the fluid warm, and the temp guage isnt moving so ill have to follow that wire, and see whats up with that.


Also noticed a few things not bolted down when he did the exhaust, so gonna get a better look tomorrow.

I found 2 brand new ac delco glow plugs in the glovebox too so is there a way to test the ones in there? a guy as work said i can ohm them and find out which ones are bad.

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
454cid 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2421
454cid
Age: 44
Loc: West Michigan
Reg: 02-18-12
11-11-17 07:57 PM - Post#2714092    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:

5. (this was when i noticed i had 0 oil pressure and shut if off to drain the oil)...




Hopefully it's electrical.


  • Quote:
...front driveshaft, and both CV shafts are actually there, just the carrier/differential assembly is gone.




Are you trailering this truck? If not, how are you keeping the CV shafts from flopping around?


99 K3500 RCLB


 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-11-17 09:25 PM - Post#2714098    
    In response to 454cid

I didn't stop them from flopping. I know I'll have to replace them. I was just saying they are both there. I previously thought one was missing.


And I'm sure the 0 oil pressure was not electrical after I found all the fuel in the oil....it had 30 psi cold start pressure. That should have been my first sign

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-12-17 09:35 AM - Post#2714140    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Learned something else.. found the new PMD laying up by the intake plenum, no heatsink, no extension harness. so ill have to invest in that too soon.

i have multiple CPU heatsinks & fans and thermal paste in a box in the garage (im kinda heavy into the IT world too) theoreticlly, could i attach one of those heatsinks as a temp solution just so i can dissipate the heat while i trouble shoot the rich condition?



Also just got the oil filter off and my god was it tight, i had to pucture it and use every ounce of strength to get it to turn and started ripping through the filter.. i work at a OTR shop as you know and im not exactly a weak guy, ive broken grade 8 bolts on frame with just a 3ft breaker bar, and broken axle nuts loose that no one else in the shop could get busted loose. but anyway, have to wait till noon when the parts store opens down the street, they have the AC delco filter in stock for $4 so ill just put that on for the time being, im not gonna put a $15 filter on just to ruin it.

Im gonna try putting a generic heatsink on it for now just in case its not already fried. also going to open the tvalve up front while its running and see if it stumbles/dies.


payday i will do the rent a tool compression tester and see what it reads out


1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-12-17 11:45 AM - Post#2714159    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

ok after 30 minutes of idling, ( and i blocked off the radiator) i got HOT air from the vents, oil pressure was reading around 10PSI, and still felt like it was missing. i tried putting it into gear, dies instantly, before it would struggle to stay idling and now wont even do that. i tried unplugging the coolant sensor again, no change when putting into gear, but the exhaust smelled richer and more smoke. idle came up a little bit. i plug it back in and it almost stalls then catches itself.

Checked the oil after running for 30 minutes, it was about 1/4" past the full mark, and clean, not sure if i just put a little too much in or if it already has fuel in the oil again, it seemed pretty thin for 15w40, but thats just me.


next step i guess is pulling valve covers and taking a look while its running.

seems there was a little more blowby once it was up to temp, but not nearly as much as videos ive seen on youtube and they were running smoother than i am.

i can move the wastegate arm on the turbo even with it running, but i dont see where the vacuum attaches?? can someone tell me where to look for that.

I just want to do what I can to see if this engine is salvageable before i start saving for one out of another truck. if i drop in another engine ill be $1500 into the truck plus my labor, and i will still need to put on the tires, mirrors, and front differential if i want to make it 4x4 again right away.

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-17-17 04:41 PM - Post#2714792    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

not sure if anyone is still reading these. im picking up a 65K-100K BTU LP reddy heater tomorrow morning so i can warm the garage up, then after I tidy up in there ill be pulling each truck in one at a time to clean them up and get the garbage out, the dually being last so it can stay in there all week if need be. ill try the lift pump first just for the heck of it since i have one and it will cost me $0 to try it, if that makes no difference, then my obd2 cable will arrive around noon so ill plug it up and see what is tripping the SES light and see if that helps point me anywhere, and then just check out the data stream from the sensors and see if any of them are off. not sure if i can see what the timing is at or not with this engine since its 1996 OBD2


ill post again after ive tried a couple things

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-17-17 06:08 PM - Post#2714807    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

So i went outside and checked a couple things, the lift pump does run for several seconds during KOEO, and while cranking. i opened the "air bleed" and a hose quickly, lot of fuel spurting out, so im leaning towards my lift pump not being the culprit.

i cut the old plug off the block heater, and ohmed it at 24.8 oHms, so i put a new connector on it,and its sizzling away now. im gonna try to start it tomorrow morning before i leave and see if it will start at all with just the block heater.


I will ohm out 2 of the glow plugs this weekend and pop them in too, but first I want to see the timing and what the codes are, i was on this https://www.dieselbombers.com/general-diesel-relat... and this http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-en gi...

and im wondering if the timing is way off due to him messing around with the PMD, or something else causing incomplete combustion. one comment said to loosen one injector at a time and if one causes it to stumble then the plastic/nylon part has most likely failed under the valve cover.

ill post again in the morning after i try to start it, its not gonna be too cold tonight only 21F overnight low.

it doesnt seem to be cranking evenly, ill have to get a video to explain it, just seems like 1 cyl is making the lights dim alot as it comes to its turn in the cycle while cranking

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-18-17 10:58 AM - Post#2714854    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

hey yall, made a thread here too, to try and get even more help: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-en gi...

Heres the videos i took this morning, 21F outside, https://youtu.be/UeZ1he8CWuI


And after it started up: https://youtu.be/oqDym6Lmfxk



Also when its cold and i put it into gear it doesnt die, but i can floor it and it either doesnt move or it creeps maybe an inch at a time, the engine rpm barely increases, its like it doesnt even have enough tq to roll the truck in the driveyway.


1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-18-17 11:18 AM - Post#2714857    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

i thought id try something before i shut it off, if i bring the RPM to anything above say 800RPM then nuetral bomb it (drop it into D or R) then it will move without stalling out. also i pushed the temp sender plug in all the way with a small piece of tape to hold it for now and the guage was at the bottom when it was cold and before i shut it off it was 1/4 of the way across ( i dont know exactly what temp that correlates to)

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 179

Age: 27
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
11-18-17 02:19 PM - Post#2714873    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Ok so finally got the .NET framework going and installed the software, i was dismally dissappointed to what was available in regards to sensor data, i would have thought if the PCM could see it then i should be able to see it, MAP, Optical sensor readings, etc. Perhaps its my software thats limiting me.


the codes were P0118 and P1218, now I think i tried unplugging the PMD then cranking on it so i probably caused that code, and the ECT sensor code was from running with it unplugged im sure.


Im gonna do my best to get it into the garage either tonight or tomorrow and get to checking those grounds. none i looked at visually seemed any worse than other vehicles ive owned but ill remove all of them and clean/reattach them anyway.

PMD is currently grounded it appears to the IP, but ill probably take the plenum off and see if the IP bolts are loose or if it looks like it was moved, dont really know "how to test it" If I am going to need to replace the IP im just going to buy the other 6.5L for $700 and ill just drop it in, runs drives right now, still in the truck so i could go test drive it. Also can get a IP pulled from another truck (95) with 120K for $200, but id rather take the whole thing and be done with it.


Anywhos, its saying 58%-80% load at idle, and even when i bring the RPMs up its still saying 70+% load, and when i let off the pedal it drops to 1% for a split second then shows 99% and 100% load while it is stumbling and trying to catch itself.


could IP timing cause these issues? if it was not put back where its supposed to be?

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
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