Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!
Classic Performance Products Classic Parts
Ciadella InteriorsAmerican Auto Wire Classic Industries
Chevs of the 40sDanchuk Catalog
Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & CustomEcklers AutoMotive
Nu-Relics Power Windows
Impala Bob's Bob's Chevy Trucks Bob's Chevelle Parts Bob's Classic Chevy



Username Post: New mini starter hitting flywheel        (Topic#347565)
bluesfella 
Senior Member
Posts: 871
bluesfella
Loc: Tallahassee FL
Reg: 04-07-03
10-08-17 10:30 AM - Post#2710138    

So, I put THIS CRATE MOTOR in my '55 Chevy recently. I had to get a block-mounted starter because I'm using the smaller 153 tooth flywheel, so I got THIS ONE.

It seems like the starter gear is too close to the flywheel, so I added both of the shims in the package to bring the gear back a bit. But still, every time I hit the key, the gear just hits the flywheel and doesn't engage. I just ordered a shim kit, but I'm thinking that if I have to add that many shims, I must have the wrong starter? Or something else is wrong?

I haven't had a chance to precisely measure how far away the gear is from the flywheel (the car is at my buddy's garage), but I'll check that as well when the shims get here.

What am I missing?



 




raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27353
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
10-08-17 03:10 PM - Post#2710167    
    In response to bluesfella

On the page you linked for the starter, two user reviews reported the exact same problem you are having. One of the users said he had to return the starter, and I assume the other did, too.

One possible explanation is that the page says the knurl on the included mounting bolts DOES NOT extend into the counterbores in the block. Since the increased diameter of the knurl is the ONLY thing holding the starter in alignment on a block mounted starter (now you know why I dislike block mounted starters), that may be the cause of your problem. Assuming that the block and the starter are both machined correctly, you might want to see if you can find the correct mounting bolts before you return the starter to Summit.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
bluesfella 
Senior Member
Posts: 871
bluesfella
Loc: Tallahassee FL
Reg: 04-07-03
10-08-17 07:36 PM - Post#2710209    
    In response to raycow

I think the knurling does go up into the block, but I will check that, thanks!

I thought I had to go block-mounted because my flywheel is the smaller 153 tooth and my bellhousing was made for only the larger 168 tooth.



Edited by bluesfella on 10-08-17 07:37 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27353
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
10-09-17 12:41 AM - Post#2710236    
    In response to bluesfella

You're right. If you want to run a 153 tooth flywheel you don't have any choice about the starter. It has to be block mounted. IMO it was still a bad design choice by GM just to save a buck. AFAIK, no other US car manufacturer uses this design.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
66cayne 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2725

Reg: 08-06-08
10-09-17 05:36 AM - Post#2710253    
    In response to raycow

contact the crate motor manufacturer and find out what starter they recommend.



 
bluesfella 
Senior Member
Posts: 871
bluesfella
Loc: Tallahassee FL
Reg: 04-07-03
10-09-17 07:32 PM - Post#2710341    
    In response to raycow

So I went out to the garage tonight, and sure enough, it won't work. I had purchased an additional shim kit for it, so I have all three shims (the ones that move the gear back, not the normal starter shims that move the whole starter down), and it still won't line up correctly.

I took a video of it so you can see what it does: https://youtu.be/rXorKGg2TbA

Raycow, you were right about the knurling not going up into the block, but honestly I don't see how even that would help this line up.

I even put every "normal" starter shim I could find in there, it ended up being 7 of them. Hoping that would move the starter down enough, but still no go. If I manually move the flywheel a bit so the teeth line up, it will engage, but then it's too tight to disengage. And as soon as it finally disengages, it's back to hitting the flywheel again.

Am I just naive for thinking "how hard could this be"? There are only two options for flywheel size, and this starter was designed to work with either. (Two sets of bolt holes.) How can you buy a starter that's designed to work on an SBC with a 153 tooth flywheel, and it not work?

66cayne, I have emailed the crate motor company to ask them, but no response yet.

Is there a block-mounted starter you guys know of that actually works with a 153 tooth flywheel?



 
aghaga 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2128
aghaga
Age: 63
Loc: Altavista, Va.
Reg: 07-05-08
10-09-17 08:17 PM - Post#2710348    
    In response to bluesfella

Does the starter ever spin? Have you bench tested the starter?




 
55 Shaker 
Member
Posts: 1419

Age: 68
Loc: north central IL.
Reg: 03-13-06
10-09-17 08:20 PM - Post#2710349    
    In response to bluesfella

Vance. It's been quite a few years and beers ago. But I think a 1979 Chevy Malibu 305 cu. in. had a 153 tooth flex plate, fly wheel. The factory starters had the mounting bolt straight across from each other. Go to an auto parts store and look up a starter for that.

A factory starter for a 168 tooth flywheel will have the mounting bolts staggered. Hope this helps.

Brian

The older I get, the more dangerous, I am !!!!


 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 10961
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
10-09-17 08:33 PM - Post#2710354    
    In response to aghaga

I think Aghaga is on the right track. It looks like the solenoid is not holding the gear in the flywheel. The "hold" winding in the solenoid may be open. As soon as the "pull-in" winding starts spinning the motor the solenoid drops the gear back out. As mentioned, bench test it.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27353
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
10-09-17 10:32 PM - Post#2710368    
    In response to bluesfella

I know this sounds crude, but could you loosen the bolts slightly, then "pry" the starter sideways (toward the outside of the car) and retighten the bolts?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3990

Reg: 12-29-02
10-10-17 05:47 AM - Post#2710381    
    In response to bluesfella

Try a factory type replacement starter for a 95 LT1 car, F-body or full size.



 
bluesfella 
Senior Member
Posts: 871
bluesfella
Loc: Tallahassee FL
Reg: 04-07-03
10-12-17 08:14 AM - Post#2710626    
    In response to 65_Impala

I asked Blueprint Engines (the ones I bought the motor from), and this was their response:

"I hear this a lot from customers using aftermarket mini starters. For a 153 tooth sized flexplate, I would suggest using a starter from the 1986 – 1992 Corvettes. They were a small starter and those Vettes all had 153 tooth flexplates. GM made thousands and thousands of these and they worked. I put a link to Napa’s website below, but I am sure all the major parts store chains carry them."

Here's the link



 
BigDogSS 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4564
BigDogSS
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
10-12-17 09:49 AM - Post#2710636    
    In response to bluesfella

X2 on the 1995 LT1 starter from a Caprice or Camaro. You can buy a NEW ACDelco starter from Rock Auto for around $100.

    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible - Ermine White C1
    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS 396 - Marina Blue FF



 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4774

Age: 67
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
10-13-17 05:10 AM - Post#2710712    
    In response to BigDogSS

That starter is dual bolt pattern. Are you in the correct holes to mount it?



 
bluesfella 
Senior Member
Posts: 871
bluesfella
Loc: Tallahassee FL
Reg: 04-07-03
10-16-17 12:12 PM - Post#2711020    
    In response to models916

  • models916 Said:
That starter is dual bolt pattern. Are you in the correct holes to mount it?



Yep. The other holes would have it way too far out.



 




Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

1034 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.282 seconds.   Total Queries: 13   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 09:52 PM
Top