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Username Post: '52 business coupe seat belt        (Topic#347454)
rickityfifty 
Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 78
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
10-01-17 09:08 PM - Post#2709443    

I would like to fit lap/sash seat belt to my 1952 business coupe, but the b pillar is really narrow at the top. The part between my fingers is the nailing strip, the arrowed part is the section the bolt would have to come through. It's only about 5/8" wide so if if I put a plate inside with a 7/16 threaded hole in it there is not much left.
I could use those special barrel bolts right through the pillar but the bolt head is visible outside and looks a bit ugly. Any ideas?

Attachment: b_pillar.jpg (1.29 MB) 4 View(s)




1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


 

Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3449
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
10-02-17 03:06 PM - Post#2709528    
    In response to rickityfifty

Hi Rickity, I have the same issue on my 32 Tudor. But its got some wood in there also. It only has lap belts.

The big problem is going to be if you have to get it certified, as OE manufacturers can just state it is OK (They do finite analysis and lots of testing.)

I know on my 4 door I just welded a big nut into the pillar, but that was before we had our new comprehensive regulations. Back in the day it was quite common to see the chrome exterior cap of a belt bolt on many retro fits. Most of those probably didn't even have a crush tube.

The bolt and nut never fail as their sheer strength is probably 20 tons, it is the surrounding panel work that lets go.

I know to put lap diagonals in my AD truck here we have to cut a square out of the cab corner to get to the inside of the interior skin and attach the required square plate and then weld the panel back in from the exterior.

The easiest answer if you are not going pure stock is to get some late model seats that have integrated belts. I will probably do this rather than hack my mint cab.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
tommy49 
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2181
tommy49
Loc: Kaleva, Michigan
Reg: 09-28-12
10-02-17 04:05 PM - Post#2709536    
    In response to rickityfifty

Here's a site with some information on seat belt installation. Scroll down for the pdf downloads. I ended up putting in bucket seats with the integrated lap and shoulder belts.

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents.html

Tommy

49 Deluxe Sport Coupe, 55 235, 700r4, Blazer rear axle, 4 wheel power disc brakes.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyfortynine /album...


 
rickityfifty 
Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 78
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
10-02-17 08:04 PM - Post#2709579    
    In response to tommy49

Hi Kiwi and Tommy,
thanks for your input. I'll keep asking people but I expect I will have to just use lap belts.
I do rather like the style of the original fold-forward bench seat, with the fabric covering it's quite comfortable and I don't remember sliding on it when I brought the car home.

Rickity

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3449
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
10-03-17 03:16 PM - Post#2709664    
    In response to rickityfifty

Hi Rickety, The reference Tommy has given you is the NZ code of construction system, but it doesn't automatically apply in Australia.

It is common sense solutions that are proven to work, but legislation doesn't necessarily follow common sense.

I am sure a lot of folks in the Aussie system use it as a reference, but you have a state by state system, which to be fair, is less accessible to the hobbyist than ours.

Lap belts are better than nothing, but the lap diagonal gives the driver far more protection in more serious situations.

Have a look at a few late model coupes/convertibles to see how they work with their in-seat solution.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
rickityfifty 
Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 78
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
10-03-17 04:58 PM - Post#2709681    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Kiwi,
I thinking maybe the top mount could be further back under the window, but I haven't looked into that yet. My daughter MK2 has just had grand- daughter MK2 and disrupted the tranquility, but that's all good.
If the car was classified as a street rod there would be specific requirements and according to the book I could use the through the pillar sleeve bolt, but I don't like the appearance and as you said the bolt could pull right through. More research needed, I think.

Rickity.

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5180
56sedandelivery
Age: 66
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
10-03-17 08:13 PM - Post#2709703    
    In response to rickityfifty

You could always install a roll bar, and attach the shoulder belt to that. Being it's a Bus Coupe you have, no one will be in the back as there's no seat. We only had lap belts in our 51 Bus coupe, and they were "removable", and attached to the bucket seat rails. Out for normal driving in town, installed for the drag strip, but it never made it to the drag strip. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
rickityfifty 
Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 78
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
10-06-17 04:19 PM - Post#2709959    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

Thanks Butch,
I'm still working through a couple of ideas.
I will put up pictures when I work out what to do.

Rickity

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3449
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
10-08-17 10:34 PM - Post#2710227    
    In response to rickityfifty

Hi Rickety, I would image if it was a big enough shunt to pull the though bolt out you're pretty much toast anyway.

That solid mounted steering column and steel framed wheel are pretty hard on the body. And at high speed that's what you face plant.

The total lack of any deformation progression in the front chassis and dog box would load you up with so much G force you internals would normally separate.

The chassis/floor mounted pedals are not going to do your lower legs much good and so on and so forth.

Crash survival design was a couple of decades after these. Even lap diagonal seat belts were still a glint in Mr Volvo's eyes.

If you want stock seats and are allowed to use the door pillar through bolts I would definitely go that way as they are far superior to lap belts. With lap belts you are going to face plant at 20mph, maybe 40-50 with lap diagonals.
Kids in the back seat are quite different solutions than adults. What you need initially is reverse direction baby seats, then booster seats, then adult belts once they are late teens.

Adult lap diagonals tend to take the heads off shorter occupants. The lower floor mounts are similar, but you need to do the tops slightly different for kids so they don't slide out under and get the diagonal around the neck. Some kids harnesses have a crotch belt for that reason.

When my lad was a nipper I put two belt mounts in the chassis of my 32 above the driveshaft loop and they sit snug up under the steel floor at the rear. The Tudor has no parcel shelf so can't do a lap diagonal in the back as the seat is too far rearward.

Get hold of a copy of the NZ Hot Rod code of construction and it will give you some ideas.

Cheers Kiwi


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 10-08-17 10:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
rickityfifty 
Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 78
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
10-12-17 07:23 PM - Post#2710696    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Kiwi,
My other objection to the top through-bolt is the available hex head on the outside is ugly. Even if it's painted to match body colour. I thought about getting a pair of nice stainless ones made with a larger domed head, but after talking to a very knowledgeable guy here who is on the ASRF Technical Advisory Committee I'm going to reinforce the bottom half of the 'b' pillar, mount the top swivel part of the belt as high as possible just behind the latch striker area and put the inertia reel itself inside the trim in the cavity.
I will snoop around the wrecking yards for actual design ideas and maybe trim pieces that can be used.
I will post pictures of the whole thing when it has all been finished.
Rickity

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


 
flatout 
Member
Posts: 138
flatout
Loc: NW
Reg: 12-15-01
10-13-17 11:24 AM - Post#2710745    
    In response to rickityfifty

I'm not sure if this will pass tech in Australia, but this is what I did in my 51 Coupe.














Edited by flatout on 10-16-17 12:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Mike JW 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1248
Mike JW
Loc: Arroyo Grande, CA
Reg: 01-19-06
10-13-17 03:50 PM - Post#2710762    
    In response to flatout

I did the same thing on my 50 coupe, haven't wrecked it so don't know if it would hold. Hope to never find out.



 
rickityfifty 
Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 78
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
10-13-17 05:06 PM - Post#2710771    
    In response to flatout

Thanks Guys for your input. I think what you have done is probably at least as strong as the sleeve/barrel bolt through the top of the pillar and gets away from the ugly bolt head showing outside, but I'm guessing would not pass local inspection. If we put a reinforcing plate under the floor for belts it has to at least six square inches. Approved systems for wider 'b' pillars are still the same area (long and skinny) but you have to slide the plate up inside the pillar from a hole down lower.
Rickity

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


Edited by rickityfifty on 10-13-17 05:09 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
schudaddie 
Senior Member
Posts: 281
schudaddie
Loc: SW, MI
Reg: 10-31-01
10-14-17 07:32 AM - Post#2710823    
    In response to rickityfifty

you might want to check this out....
http://web.archive.org/web/20160319201435/ht tp://j...
later, bill



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3449
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
10-16-17 05:41 AM - Post#2710988    
    In response to schudaddie

Hi Schudaddie, nice article but down under retro fitting lap/diagonal belts can no longer be done by welding plates into the pillar.

In NZ if I want a lap diagonal in my AD Pick up cab I have to cut a square out of the roof to remove the outer skin and put the form fitting inner mounting plate to the outside of the cab interior skin. Only permitted through hole is for the bolt and the plate would be plug or rose welded in place on the inner skin. Then the roof gets the panel welded back over the outside.
same for the top mount on the other side.

NZ rules are normally easier than Australia.

This is why I suggest seat mounted belts as even if you can get lap diagonals in a coupe or two door, rear seat passengers hang up in them all the time.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 

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