Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!
Classic Performance Products Classic Parts
Ciadella InteriorsAmerican Auto Wire Classic Industries
Chevs of the 40sDanchuk Catalog
Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & CustomEcklers AutoMotive
Nu-Relics Power Windows
Impala Bob's Bob's Chevy Trucks Bob's Chevelle Parts Bob's Classic Chevy

Username Post: Radial tires alignment        (Topic#347056)
rls8836 
Member
Posts: 360

Loc: North La.
Reg: 01-30-02
09-09-17 05:39 AM - Post#2707141    

I was reading on here and learned that front end alignment for radial tires should be different than bias ply tire. Why? Please explain. I know radials steer different and ride better. Is it the toe-end that's different? Or both caster and camber! Please educate me some on this. I've had my car 10-12 yrs. now.

I completely rebuilt the whole front end 6-7 yrs. ago with all new a-frame bushings, shocks, tie-rods, added a sway bar, and coil springs for a V-8. The car had a V-8 in it when I had bought it and was originally a 6 cyl. Whether or not the original coil springs were in the car when I acquired it is unknown. I then had new radial Cooper tires mounted all the way around. Immediately after the front end rebuild I had it aligned at one of the older alignment shops. The car drove better. They also adjusted the steering sector box also, which helped some with the wandering on uneven pavement.I still have some slack on the highway which bothers me more than in town, but it is the original steering box under it still. I believe I had tightened up the a-frame with the weight off the tires, wouldn't the alignment shop have loosened everything up again when aligning it? The reason I ask is that I believe that I should have tightened it with at least some of the weight on the tires.

My main concern after all of this writing is the car: seems to dip. It's like it still needs new or better coil springs under it. I had thought when I replaced the coil springs that that would have stopped this considerably. Is this just the way it's going to be? On interstate where there are dips in the road "not uneven like left or right low spots" it seems to float. It's like it comes down too much, no not bottoming out. When sitting still at my house I can try bouncing my car, "like checking for wore out shocks" and it returns once. Really concerns me at times, it's like I need new shocks or better coil springs. It's like the car just comes down like it needs more spring action or shocks to let it down easier. I know I have too much slack still in my steering but the feeling of floating on interstate seems very unsafe. Any ideas how to fix this? Thanks



Edited by rls8836 on 09-09-17 05:43 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 10864
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
09-09-17 06:58 AM - Post#2707146    
    In response to rls8836

First, yes the control arm bushings should have been tightened with the full weight on the suspension. There is no reason the alignment shop would loosen the shaft bolts. The rubber bushings are bonded to the shaft sleeve and to the control arm sleeve. This causes the rubber to flex when the control arm moves up and down. If the bushings are tightened with the suspension hanging, it will cause the rubber to flex excessively in one direction, possible breaking the bond between the rubber and sleeves.
With radial tires, you can usually increase the caster without making the steering too hard for manual steering. Caster is what makes the wheels center after a turn.
You didn't mention idler arm bushings, make sure they are in good shape. Same goes for them, tighten them with the steering centered, as they flex in both directions also.


Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


Edited by acardon on 09-09-17 10:29 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
rls8836 
Member
Posts: 360

Loc: North La.
Reg: 01-30-02
09-09-17 07:03 AM - Post#2707148    
    In response to acardon

Do you think my control arm bushings a now toast



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 10864
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
09-09-17 09:01 AM - Post#2707159    
    In response to rls8836

They will sometimes squeek when the rubber breaks loose. Maybe they are OK.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27224
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
09-09-17 09:21 AM - Post#2707160    
    In response to acardon

acardon, correction needed. Increased positive caster, not camber, is what makes the car track straighter. However, on a stock trifive, there's not much way to get more caster - the adjustment just isn't there.

For radial tires, the only change to the alignment spec's is to reduce the toe-in. On the other hand, Chevy modified their own recommendation with a service bulletin early on to spec it at 1/16"-1/8". This was long before radial tires and is about all you can do.

On the bushings, look for cracks in the rubber, rubber bulging from one side, and lack of concentricity of the ends of the control arm to the bolt/washer. But this is probably not your wandering problem.

As already suggested, check the idler arm for play, as well as the tie rod ends.

The "floating" feeling is worn shocks. Also run your tire pressure close to but not over the maximum pressure marked on the tire (for most radials that maximum would be around 35 psi).



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 10864
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
09-09-17 10:33 AM - Post#2707165    
    In response to Rick_L

Oops, yes, I meant "caster" not camber. I corrected it in my first post in case the OP hasn't read it yet. Thanks Rick.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
rls8836 
Member
Posts: 360

Loc: North La.
Reg: 01-30-02
09-09-17 01:24 PM - Post#2707187    
    In response to Rick_L

Rick L so worn shocks may be what the cause is, I only run 32 psi in my tires. I have Monroe Matic shocks now and don't remember about them as to the # or type. Do you have a recommendation?



 
rls8836 
Member
Posts: 360

Loc: North La.
Reg: 01-30-02
09-09-17 01:29 PM - Post#2707188    
    In response to rls8836

Why can't the shafts on the control arm bushing be loosened and re tightened again with the full weight on them?



 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27224
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
09-09-17 03:14 PM - Post#2707198    
    In response to rls8836

32 psi is probably fine, point is don't run 25 psi or in that range.

Yes you can loosen the control arm bolts and re-tighten with the full weight of the car on the suspension. Damage may be already done, but at least you won't do more. I think the other points of the replies are far more important, especially if you don't see physical damage looking at the things I mentioned earlier.

Nothing wrong with Monroe Matic shocks. Far as I know Monroe Matic is a line of shocks that Monroe builds. They are a higher end replacement shock. To get something different from Monroe, it would be called something else. How old are they? You may prefer something like KYB though.



 
rls8836 
Member
Posts: 360

Loc: North La.
Reg: 01-30-02
09-09-17 06:39 PM - Post#2707211    
    In response to Rick_L

The shocks are about 6-7 yrs. old I will guess. Never used the KYB shocks, look them up on the net or are they sold at the auto parts stores?



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 10864
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
09-10-17 06:32 AM - Post#2707254    
    In response to rls8836

Link to Shocks.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Bad56Sedan 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 844
Bad56Sedan
Loc: Pasadena, Texas
Reg: 04-29-04
09-10-17 07:42 AM - Post#2707264    
    In response to rls8836

I agree with Rick and Don, they know this subject and that knowledge is greatly appreciated.
The OP describes "the car: seems to dip"," It's like it still needs new or better coil springs under it",
"They also adjusted the steering sector box also, which helped some with the wandering on uneven pavement".
This effect the OP describes is related to the slack in the steering box and will continue to get worse.
The OP says he has replaced all front end parts except the steering box and coil springs.
Sounds to me like I would replace the steering box.
One of my posts prior to installing power steering basically describes the effects you are talking about.



VC56S 2 door Sedan, 37 Years

[image]http://chevytalk.org/sm/3564.jpg[/image]


Edited by Bad56Sedan on 09-10-17 07:43 AM. Reason for edit: i am not an engineer

 
rls8836 
Member
Posts: 360

Loc: North La.
Reg: 01-30-02
09-10-17 08:03 AM - Post#2707270    
    In response to Bad56Sedan

Bad56Sedan I did replace the front springs, and they were for V8. Just floats, really not so bad with the slack in steering on interstate. Now on side roads the dips on uneven roads with low places left and right always have me on my toes. I have bought 6-7 yrs. ago a 605 gearbox with power steering from a tri-five dealer where I live that I haven't ever installed. Now they haveetter steering boxes available and kinda want to buy one of them instead of using the 605. What do you all think about using the 605 or getting a different one.



 
rls8836 
Member
Posts: 360

Loc: North La.
Reg: 01-30-02
09-10-17 08:04 AM - Post#2707271    
    In response to rls8836

Bad56Sedan thanks for your reply



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 10864
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
09-10-17 08:27 AM - Post#2707274    
    In response to rls8836

I would get one of the newer boxes. The modified for tri-5, 605 box, has been known to be too sensitive and prone to leak. FYI: any aftermarket PS box is not a bolt in box. It requires a different steering column as well as a pump.
Make sure the play in the steering is the box. Have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth while you inspect the linkage with the tires on the ground.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
rls8836 
Member
Posts: 360

Loc: North La.
Reg: 01-30-02
09-10-17 11:08 AM - Post#2707288    
    In response to acardon

acardon, thanks for the reply. I believe and know for a fact all steering components were replaced by me when I rebuilt it. Except: the shocks, and steering box. I also have a ididit steering column for the car that I bought at the same time I bought the 605. Shouldn't the column I have now (ididit) which is net yet installed be fine for a newer steering box? Also what I am reading is you are saying if I buy a different, newer steering box that I should also buy a matching power steering pump. Is this correct? Would anyone reading this please recommend which box I should acquire.



 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4653

Age: 66
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
09-11-17 05:18 AM - Post#2707366    
    In response to rls8836

Radial tires roll under, changing the caster by 1-2 degrees.




 
junky 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2256

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
09-16-17 05:31 AM - Post#2707804    
    In response to models916

Recheck the idler arm because what you are describing is "bump" steering, where the steering linkage components are not in alignment with each other. If you ask the front end guy to check for bump steering, if he knows his stuff, he will know exactly what to check for. I had the same problem with a car that I replaced the idler arm with a ball bearing unit. It through out the alignment of the steering components, (tie rods, relay rod, etc.), and it was like trying to steer a squirrel in a straight path. Replaced it with a factory part, and it was back to normal. As for the dipping, that is bad shocks.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 

Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

698 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.276 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 11:26 AM
Top