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Username Post: Where do I Wire the Electric Choke?        (Topic#346848)
Sheldon Y. 
Contributor
Posts: 105

Age: 56
Loc: Waltham, Massachusetts
Reg: 10-29-16
08-27-17 04:03 PM - Post#2705787    

I did a Search, and the opinions are as varied as the particular circumstances.

Here's my situation:
- Stock Wiring
- Petronix in the original distributor
- Langdon Dual Carbs

I know the Choke Wire should go to a Fused Ignition Source, should I just run it to the Ignition Switch, with an inline 15 amp Fuse?

Thanks again, in advance, for the expertise!

Check out the '49 Styleline Deluxe Build @
http://www.frankenrodz.com/home.html


 

50sChevys 
"15th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1972
50sChevys
Age: 82
Loc: Central Texas
Reg: 03-23-02
08-27-17 07:33 PM - Post#2705806    
    In response to Sheldon Y.


Any ignition hot source and a 10 amp fuse.

50s Chevys http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/245196 4...


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 26495
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
08-28-17 11:28 PM - Post#2705978    
    In response to 50sChevys

Easiest would be to connect the choke wire to the coil (+) terminal with an inline fuseholder. This way, you don't need to run anything through the firewall.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
Sheldon Y. 
Contributor
Posts: 105

Age: 56
Loc: Waltham, Massachusetts
Reg: 10-29-16
08-29-17 04:45 AM - Post#2705993    
    In response to raycow

Everything I've read, says to stay away from the Coil? It would seem to be the most practical solution.


"If the battery is weak or starter is working too hard/worn, the added load of the 4amps +(?) choke on the distributor wire can cause no spark....

If the alternator amp load versus output on the distributor at idle is high, the choke will rob volts and amps from the distributor and that affects spark quality...
(depends but can ruin the spark intensity up to 2000 rpms)

Stock wires are usually #12 or #14 so the last thing you want is more load=heat=lost amps power to the ignition....
(what you do want is amps in reserve due to no heat)

There are more good reasons but it's more of a caution versus DO NOT...
The ignition switch can handle 30amps plus, just wiser to use a second wire to the choke..."


Check out the '49 Styleline Deluxe Build @
http://www.frankenrodz.com/home.html


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3388
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
08-29-17 07:36 AM - Post#2706009    
    In response to Sheldon Y.

Hi Sheldon, That there electrickery is a funky thing.

The limit of the amperage flow in the primary ignition circuit is done by the internal resistance of the coil and is deliberately held down to about 2.5 amps. (To protect the points.)

If you pull off the coil primary power and run that lead to earth it will melt and burn and cause general mayhem and unhappiness. Considerably more than 2.5 amps will have caused the molten mess of plastic and wire.

It's the device internal resistance that is the current limiting item. So a bulb, a horn, or in this case the coil will only allow 2.5 amps to pass through the primary.

If you parallel off the coil primary power side and run it to a 4 Amp auto choke then provided the wiring and switches are good for 10 Amps it will run sweet.

The sort of voltage drop needed to make 12V points ignition fail is down to about 9.2V. If you have 12V+ at the battery then it will be a big high compression engine on a cold day to do that. You need to be drawing hundreds of amps to do this. Not 4 Amps.

Sorry, long winded way of saying Ray was right. But I would add that you don't want the fuse and holder mounted on the engine. They don't like the vibration and heat.

Cheers Kiwi


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 08-29-17 07:42 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3388
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
08-29-17 06:08 PM - Post#2706074    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Sheldon, I was thinking last night about your concerns and if you wanted the best of both worlds then what you could do is run a relay switching feed from the coil primary power side.

So grab a standard 15 amp relay (always rate at double running current.) and supply it through a 15 amp fuse. Run the power out to the electric choke.
Pick up the switching feed from the coil. This should only draw a notional current of say 1/2 an amp.

As I said, best of both worlds, just more complex.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Sheldon Y. 
Contributor
Posts: 105

Age: 56
Loc: Waltham, Massachusetts
Reg: 10-29-16
08-29-17 06:18 PM - Post#2706076    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Thanks Ray and Kiwi!

You Guys are the Best.

Check out the '49 Styleline Deluxe Build @
http://www.frankenrodz.com/home.html


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 26495
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
08-29-17 07:06 PM - Post#2706080    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

  • Bel Air kiwi Said:
.....So grab a standard 15 amp relay (always rate at double running current.) and supply it through a 15 amp fuse. Run the power out to the electric choke.
Pick up the switching feed from the coil. This should only draw a notional current of say 1/2 an amp.

As I said, best of both worlds, just more complex.


Kiwi, that is exactly what I do whenever I convert a 12V car from points to electronic ignition and do not want to cut into the stock harness to bypass the built-in resistance. Any normal 12V cube relay will absolutely pull in when fed from the resistance wire which formerly went to the ignition coil. The relay contacts can be fed from any unswitched 12V source in the engine compartment, but it would be best to keep the wires carrying the heavy current as short as possible.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3388
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
08-30-17 07:53 PM - Post#2706220    
    In response to raycow

Careful Ray, folks will think we have a crush on each other.

You can run the power for the relay up from the starter so its permanently live, just make sure you have the fuse in that line before the relay for safety sake.

Ballast resistors weren't standard in our cars so you shouldn't have an issue. If it has been retro fitted then there should be two supplies going to the coil primary power side. If not they may be joined further up the loom.

I personally would get rid of ballast in a Pertronix conversion as the feed to the coil while running will be only 9V nominal and the Pertronix is at its best with a low impedance 12v coil.

The coils aren't labelled as 9V but as "12V ballast" type.


Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 26495
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
08-30-17 09:44 PM - Post#2706237    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Kiwi, I should have been clearer. On my 12V car Pertronix conversions, I replaced the stock coil with a "real" 12V coil, designed to be used without an external resistor. I then connected the Pertronix power lead to the coil (+) terminal so they both get 12V from the relay. The original coil lead (resistance wire) is connected only to the relay coil and doesn't power anything else.

I have done only one Pertronix conversion on a 6V car, which I had previously converted to 12V and kept the stock wiring. That one of course had no resistance wire, so I used the original ignition coil lead to power everything, despite warnings about it being too light for the job. It's been about 10 years on that one now, and no problems so far.

Lastly, I need to make it clear that I did none of these conversions with the intent of gaining a performance improvement over the stock setup. I did all of them only so I could be free of the points maintenance issue. And yes, I know I will never recover the cost of the Pertronix with the savings from the points sets that I didn't have to buy.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3388
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
08-31-17 06:51 PM - Post#2706343    
    In response to raycow

Hi Ray, I see where you are coming from, and although I am a huge fan of relays (Pun intended.)
my preference would be to run the ignition direct wired so I would hunt out and remove or bypass the resistor. Not a right or wrong issue, just a preference.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
YOUNG57 
Contributor
Posts: 959

Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 12-06-10
09-02-17 09:36 PM - Post#2706538    
    In response to raycow

  • raycow Said:
Easiest would be to connect the choke wire to the coil (+) terminal with an inline fuseholder. This way, you don't need to run anything through the firewall.

Ray



I agree fully, that’s pretty much the way GM did it.

KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid





 
DanD1950 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 820
DanD1950
Loc: London Ont. Canada
Reg: 10-16-11
09-05-17 06:41 AM - Post#2706723    
    In response to YOUNG57

The only extra thing I can add to this thread, would be to add an oil pressure switch; between the relay and the choke heating element.



The one pictured (AC Delco #G1809) has three terminals. One terminal goes to ground when oil pressure is applied. The other two terminals connect to each-other, when oil pressure is applied.
Use the two terminals that connect to each other. That way if the ignition is on for whatever reason (engine not running) the choke heater will not get any voltage; leaving the choke closed. Once the engine is started and oil pressure reaches approx 4 psi, the terminals in the switch will close and supply power to the choke heater.

Dan.

PS: Why I say this part number, is that it was originally used on Chevy Vega'. It was the safety switch for the electric fuel pump. No oil pressure no fuel pump. This switch will handle the current flow of the choke's heating element.



50 Styleline Deluxe, 2 Door Sedan, Was a 216cu", Three Speed Manual. She now has a 4.8Lt V8 LR4 injected engine, 4L60E 4 speed automatic, 10 bolt diff 342 gear with an Eaton C80 Locker



Edited by DanD1950 on 09-05-17 07:17 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
westsiderider 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 65
westsiderider
Loc: Santa Barbara Ca.
Reg: 04-29-15
09-07-17 05:17 AM - Post#2706896    
    In response to DanD1950

How do you wire the electric choke wire with a stock regular points and condenser distributor ? 12 volt - 1949 Chevy Fleetline - 1959 Chevy 235 engine , Single 1 barrel Carb . original exhaust - 3 speed Manual. Any advice ? I see on this thread members keep mentioning petronix in the distributor ..... wondering if my stock distributor situation requires a different wiring scenario than what has been mentioned here in this thread . I appreciate any advice and guidance . Thanks Dave - ps - I would say electrical is my weakest subject as far as knowledge and experience goes .....



Edited by westsiderider on 09-07-17 05:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 26495
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
09-07-17 11:27 AM - Post#2706936    
    In response to westsiderider

If you used a stock type 12V coil which requires a ballast resistance, connect the choke to the switch side of the resistor. If you used a coil which doesn't require a resistor, you can connect to whichever coil terminal IS NOT connected to the distributor.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
westsiderider 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 65
westsiderider
Loc: Santa Barbara Ca.
Reg: 04-29-15
09-07-17 04:41 PM - Post#2706965    
    In response to raycow

Thank you Raycow .



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 26495
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
09-07-17 06:22 PM - Post#2706969    
    In response to westsiderider

Happy to help.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
DanD1950 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 820
DanD1950
Loc: London Ont. Canada
Reg: 10-16-11
09-08-17 06:41 AM - Post#2706997    
    In response to westsiderider

This is how I would wire in an electric choke. The fuses, relay and pressure switch are all for safe guarding the ignition system. I could deal with a choke not coming off if there were an issue; but hate walking when that issue takes out an ignition coil or points & condenser.



Dan.

50 Styleline Deluxe, 2 Door Sedan, Was a 216cu", Three Speed Manual. She now has a 4.8Lt V8 LR4 injected engine, 4L60E 4 speed automatic, 10 bolt diff 342 gear with an Eaton C80 Locker



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3388
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
09-08-17 10:26 PM - Post#2707125    
    In response to DanD1950

Hi Dan, That Idea of oil pressure controlling the fuel supply in the Vega is how I do my race "T" bucket, but to work real nice you also need a primer button so that you can actually start it.

I just have a separate hold down button hooked to the pump relay that's my primer. To clarify you are using the oil pressure switch on the power side and I am using it on the earth side to allow my simple primer

Otherwise you have to use the starter as the system primer and it kills the battery and starter. The engine running cutout system is vital for cars with electric fuel pumps in case of accidents but I would not be so worried about an electric choke in that scenario.

Cheers Kiwi

Great to have that oil pressure switch part number, handy for a lot of safety tricks. I agree with the warning light. I run an Accusump on the "T" and as soon as it switches a 2 1/4" orange trailer tail light on my dash lights up. That's about 7 seconds to destruction.


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 09-08-17 10:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
westsiderider 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 65
westsiderider
Loc: Santa Barbara Ca.
Reg: 04-29-15
09-10-17 07:49 PM - Post#2707337    
    In response to DanD1950

Thanks DanD1950 . Very nice diagram .

Attachment: fullsizeoutput_1057.jpeg (792.88 KB) 0 View(s)






 
Dean50 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1127
Dean50
Loc: Detroit area
Reg: 01-02-07
09-11-17 08:29 PM - Post#2707440    
    In response to westsiderider

Man, what a sweet ride.

Dean50



 
westsiderider 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 65
westsiderider
Loc: Santa Barbara Ca.
Reg: 04-29-15
09-11-17 08:58 PM - Post#2707443    
    In response to Dean50

Thank you , i'm working on the interior now. Almost complete . These cars look so cool driving down the road , so many thumbs ups from people . Fun - fun fun !



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3388
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
09-13-17 05:19 PM - Post#2707600    
    In response to westsiderider

Hi Westrider, Old car drivers are Definitely the coolest guys on the planet.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
westsiderider 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 65
westsiderider
Loc: Santa Barbara Ca.
Reg: 04-29-15
09-18-17 09:08 PM - Post#2708083    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi





 

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