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Username Post: Air suspension?        (Topic#345287)
Hugomiller 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Age: 66
Loc: Florida and UK
Reg: 05-02-17
06-19-17 02:52 AM - Post#2696479    
    In response to japete92

Please don't think I don't believe what you say. I'm just puzzled that so many people seem to say the opposite. I have an enquiring mind and I would love to get to the bottom of it all. I THINK I have a sway bar, but I can't check it right now.
Just one question for you - if I have read you correctly, you seem to imply that the G.W. video is misleading because their 'mule' already has their modified suspension with the added caster angle - is that correct?
And just to be clear, the one thing I DON'T want to achieve is a 'modern' feel. I love the low-geared 'loose' steering and the floaty suspension of cars of this era. I got rid of the play in my steering box and that improved matters a lot - really the only problem I have is when you have undulations near the edge of the pavement on the back roads, so one wheel is going up & down & the other is not. That sends it all over the place, and I THOUGHT I had found the solution via the G.W route.
Anyway, in the light of what you say, I'm going to go back to first principles - check out the entire front end & see what I find & then go from there. Thank you again.



 
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Original58 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 454
Original58
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Reg: 10-30-13
06-19-17 04:43 AM - Post#2696491    
    In response to Hugomiller

Hugo, please dont take our comments as negative. The stock steering, when set up correctly is fine but 1950s / 60s fine. In no way is it unsafe if in good condition. If it wanders so you feel unsafe then something is amiss.
Hope you get it to where you like it.
Jeff

1958 Biscayne 283 Turbo-Glide 31,000 mi (now 35,000 and counting) driven daily
1966 Mustang Inline 6- C4 57,000 mi and growing daily
1929 Graham - Paige 612- the eternal headache that I will never sell


 
japete92 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 810
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-19-17 07:28 AM - Post#2696519    
    In response to Hugomiller

  • Hugomiller Said:
Please don't think I don't believe what you say. I'm just puzzled that so many people seem to say the opposite. I have an enquiring mind and I would love to get to the bottom of it all. I THINK I have a sway bar, but I can't check it right now.
Just one question for you - if I have read you correctly, you seem to imply that the G.W. video is misleading because their 'mule' already has their modified suspension with the added caster angle - is that correct?
And just to be clear, the one thing I DON'T want to achieve is a 'modern' feel. I love the low-geared 'loose' steering and the floaty suspension of cars of this era. I got rid of the play in my steering box and that improved matters a lot - really the only problem I have is when you have undulations near the edge of the pavement on the back roads, so one wheel is going up & down & the other is not. That sends it all over the place, and I THOUGHT I had found the solution via the G.W route.
Anyway, in the light of what you say, I'm going to go back to first principles - check out the entire front end & see what I find & then go from there. Thank you again.



If you have an OEM sway bar (I don't remember if your car came with one standard, it may be a option), it is likely a solid bar about 3/4" in diameter. It works as a 'torsion bar'. A bar with a larger diameter applies more 'corrective' (anti-roll) force. The GW bar I noted is 'hollow' (to reduce weight and because the steel near the 'center' has almost no contribution) and is 1 1/2" (as I remember) in diameter. It will 'better' reduce the roll. But if you are happy with an OEM bar, there's no reason to change. Just keep it in mind as you move forward. It won't change the 'floaty' ride. It will reduce the roll in turns.

And yes I am saying the GW video is 'misleading'. Their statements about the 'stock' condition of their 'mule' is untrue. Their statements about the x-frame cars in proper stock condition being 'unsafe' is untrue (there are more examples but I'll spare you) They show nothing but the alignment machine display. there is no way to judge if their actions replicate real life loads. Nor, is there any evidence of the conditions of the installed parts. To be brutally honest, in my opinion, the video is staged to promote the sale of their wares.

I think, like you (no offense), people w/little, or no, experience driving these cars in proper condition, accept the 'bump steer' diagnosis prematurely. They buy the kit, it makes their car drive MUCH better and 'voila', they have solved there 'bump steer' problem. Their problem MAY have been a bad upper ball joint. But because the kit replaces the ball joints, the 'kit' solved the problem.

Also, you are in the minority (by my imaginary unofficial poll ) in wanting to retain the original characteristics. Many people don't like the steering, or the floaty ride. The GW kit does a good job of satisfying those customers. That's what is does. If you don't want that, don't buy their kit. Or buy the Borgeson type box w/the 14:1 steering ratio.

Honestly, I do not ever remember the term 'bump steer' ever being used back when these cars were 'modern'. I was out of the vintage car hobby until 2012 when I bought my current '63. I too read all the 'bump steer' comments but that was the first I ever heard the term. Back in the 'day', if a car didn't steer/handle properly it was put up on a lift, the problem was diagnosed, and fixed with OEM parts. It could be ball joints, tie rods, alignment, idler arm, wheel bearings, shocks, springs, out of round tire(s), tire inflation problems, wheel balance problems, control arm bushings, etc, or any combination. After it was 'fixed' I took the car out for a drive, drove it at least 80 mph (more if I thought I could get away with it) to see how she rode. If it past the test, it was fixed.

If you did not follow the correct procedures when you 'adjusted' the steering play, you may have created other problems. You may choose to re-visit you repair.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete




Edited by japete92 on 06-19-17 07:34 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Hugomiller 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Age: 66
Loc: Florida and UK
Reg: 05-02-17
06-19-17 04:19 PM - Post#2696612    
    In response to japete92

That is an interesting insight, especially on the G.W video. I hadn't picked up on all those details. I don't have a problem with roll incidentally, or with cornering or handling, nor do I find it unsafe - it's just hard work on the back roads!
You are quite right about my steering box adjustments - I just screwed in the adjuster on the top - I didn't look at the end-float, which is what I presume the adjuster on the end does? Having said that, I got rid of the play, and it doesn't bind. I ust scred it in till I could just feel it binding, then backed it off till it wasn't! When I get back to the car I'll go through it all properly. I must admit I was more than a little puzzled by the fact that GM have been making cars long enough that they ought to be able to get these things right, and that millions of these cars were sold and happily driven without there ever being a factory recall because of this bump-steer thing. I cn see that I'm going to have to take a more thorough look at the whole set-up when I get back to Florida. Thank you once again for your input!



 
japete92 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 810
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-19-17 06:07 PM - Post#2696641    
    In response to Hugomiller

Hope all works out well for you.



 
Hugomiller 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Age: 66
Loc: Florida and UK
Reg: 05-02-17
06-20-17 08:42 AM - Post#2696730    
    In response to japete92

Oh we'll get there in the end. It's frsutarting for me cos I want to test out everything you are saying - go right throgh the front end (and the back) & see if I can find anything amiss. But I'm in England and the car is in Florida! Feels like Florida though - sweltering in the 80's! Anyway, thanks again for you input - you may have saved me from doing anything rash! This forum is a life-saver isn't it!




 
Los59 
Contributor
Posts: 167
Los59
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Reg: 11-14-10
06-21-17 07:30 AM - Post#2696886    
    In response to project60

Project60, would you mind posting photos of your Accuair 4VU setup? I've recently heard much positive feed back on this system. want to see if this will be a better decision in lieu of piecing together

1959 Impala Sport Coupe Factory 4-Spd


 
project60 
Contributor
Posts: 119
project60
Loc: BURBANK, CA
Reg: 09-01-11
06-21-17 02:17 PM - Post#2696924    
    In response to Los59

https://accuair.com/airmanagementproducts /e-level-...



This is a link to the system I'm using. I'll try to post some pics of my actually install.

'60 impala 2 door hard top 348


 
Los59 
Contributor
Posts: 167
Los59
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Reg: 11-14-10
06-22-17 04:36 PM - Post#2697086    
    In response to project60

thanks brotha.

1959 Impala Sport Coupe Factory 4-Spd


 
Hugomiller 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 24

Age: 66
Loc: Florida and UK
Reg: 05-02-17
06-23-17 12:25 AM - Post#2697143    
    In response to project60

Can I make one observation about this system; if you have four levelling valves, you are effecrtivle trying to make a four=legged table sit level on an uneven surface, and that can be tricky. You have to be very careful when setting the ride height, as you can easily end up with the weight being taken by two diagonal corners - the car will sit level, but the ride will never be right. Also, if you have a sway bar fitted, you can end up with the levelling valves fighting the sway bar. I've been operating coaches all my life in England - most have three levelling valves so they will always sit with equal pressure in each air bag. If the ride height on one levelling valve is wrong, the coach will lean. With four air bags, it will still sit level, but the opposite corners will be fighting each other all the time. My coaches have four levelling valves and no sway bar, which is very unusual, so I deal with this issue on a daily basis. When the levelling valves wear, they don't always sit with the operating arm in a horizontal position. It's a trap for the unwary!



 
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