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Username Post: hard getting in low and rev        (Topic#343878)
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-08-17 11:33 AM - Post#2685612    

tried adjusting pedal play....do I need new clutch kit?



 

Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2917
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
04-08-17 02:54 PM - Post#2685640    
    In response to virg809

Hi Virg809, Yes it's looking that way. They are the two non synchro gears so they get nasty first when the clutch isn't fully releasing. If the clearances are right that's usually the cause.
How old in miles is the old clutch plate and pressure plate?

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 25758
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
04-08-17 03:03 PM - Post#2685642    
    In response to virg809

I agree with Kiwi that the clutch probably isn't releasing fully. Adjust the linkage to reduce the pedal free play and see if that helps any.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-09-17 05:06 AM - Post#2685688    
    In response to raycow

adjusting linkage does not seem to help



 
2blu52 
"16th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 17818
2blu52
Age: 83
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
04-09-17 05:17 AM - Post#2685690    
    In response to virg809

As said, time for a clutch. While it is apart pull the fly wheel and have it serviced as well. Don't ask me why I know this is a good idea.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5066
56sedandelivery
Age: 65
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
04-09-17 12:23 PM - Post#2685731    
    In response to 2blu52

If the clutch is't releasing fully (misadjustment or wear), the gears would grind trying to get it into gear. He said nothing of that. Maybe the grease in the shifter box on the column has gotten hard or it's parts worn? Remove, clean, inspect, re-lube and replace, then re-adjust everything. We've seen photos others have posted, where the holes in the linkage have "wallowed" themselves out, and become "ob-longed"; re-weld and re-drill in those cases. Trans full of lube? If all the linkage works smoothly, is properly lubricated, and there's no grinding, then I don't know.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




Edited by 56sedandelivery on 04-09-17 12:26 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
2blu52 
"16th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 17818
2blu52
Age: 83
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
04-09-17 02:09 PM - Post#2685745    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

  • 56sedandelivery Said:
If the clutch is't releasing fully (misadjustment or wear), the gears would grind trying to get it into gear. He said nothing of that. Maybe the grease in the shifter box on the column has gotten hard or it's parts worn? Remove, clean, inspect, re-lube and replace, then re-adjust everything. We've seen photos others have posted, where the holes in the linkage have "wallowed" themselves out, and become "ob-longed"; re-weld and re-drill in those cases. Trans full of lube? If all the linkage works smoothly, is properly lubricated, and there's no grinding, then I don't know.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.


Hard to get into gear may mean it is grinding and maybe not. I still opt for the clutch repair, based on a little past experience. However you are correct there is a lot more to check on here than adjustment.


"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2917
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
04-09-17 09:37 PM - Post#2685805    
    In response to 2blu52

Hi Butch, good call, with a vehicle of this age it could be both. I wouldn't normally pull the flywheel unless an inspection shows damage from rivets or similar, or it was vibrating when used.
They do get out of flat over time but it's not a big deal. You would normally feel pulsing in the pedal if they are not flat.

It just depends on your budget and style of maintenance but you could probably just do the clutch driven plate and it would come out fine. For a customer you need to do the lot as they aren't interested in a do over in 30,000 miles to do the clutch cover and another plate. It also depends on the vehicle and driving style. There are options if you do your own work.

Cheers Kiwi



48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-10-17 05:08 AM - Post#2685828    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

thanks to all, when 3rd gear went out I replaced tranny with a low mileage one and should have replaced clutch while I was at it, haven't had the car all that long and don't remember how it shifted before....guess clutch is next




 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 25758
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
04-11-17 10:44 AM - Post#2686018    
    In response to virg809

  • virg809 Said:
.....when 3rd gear went out I replaced tranny with a low mileage one and should have replaced clutch while I was at it....


It is almost impossible for 3rd gear to fail. On a badly worn trans it may jump out of gear as you drive, but that's not the same thing. Can you describe how 3rd gear "went out"? This could help to diagnose other problems you might have which are not related to the clutch.

Also, you still haven't told us just "how" the trans is hard to get into low and reverse gears. Does it grind, or does it do something else?

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-11-17 12:01 PM - Post#2686028    
    In response to raycow

the trans I took out has a broken part that made it jump out of 3rd gear....the trans I put in is a low mileage one....it grinds when putting in rev and low like when I stop and try to go...if I mess with shifting from 3rd to 2nd and try to double clutch sometime it will go into low or rev...sometime I just have to turn the eng off and put it in rev or 2nd



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 25758
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
04-11-17 12:55 PM - Post#2686036    
    In response to virg809

Ok on jumping out of 3rd gear. That's pretty much what I was hoping to hear when I asked the question.

As for low and reverse, that would be about a 99% likelihood of the clutch not disengaging fully. The other 1% would be the pilot bearing dragging.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-11-17 02:10 PM - Post#2686045    
    In response to raycow

friend said same about bearing not releasing, cant lube em anymore




 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 25758
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
04-11-17 03:45 PM - Post#2686069    
    In response to virg809

You may be thinking about the throwout bearing, and you are correct that it can't be lubricated. If it failed, you would definitely know because it would be making really bad noises when you press the clutch pedal.

I was talking about the pilot bearing, which sits in a bore in the crankshaft. When this one fails it can cause the trans input shaft to continue turning with the crank even though you have the clutch pedal pushed all the way down. You have to remove the trans and clutch in order to replace this bearing.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-12-17 04:53 AM - Post#2686158    
    In response to raycow

yes I think he did say pilot brearing, thanks



 
50hotrod 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 856
50hotrod
Age: 60
Loc: Wisconsin
Reg: 07-25-11
04-12-17 07:47 AM - Post#2686191    
    In response to virg809

For the time being when stopped try shifting to 2nd gear first before going to 1st or reverse.

2nd gear has a synchro and should not grind going in. This will stop the trans gears from free wheeling, then quickly shift to the desired gear.


Well, you know what's wrong with the world today

People done gone put their Bible's away

They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land

"Simple Man" By Charlie Daniels



 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-20-17 04:44 AM - Post#2687432    
    In response to 50hotrod

got the tranny and clutch out, went to napa and orielly to borrow a pilot bearing puller, neither one would go in the hole.....guess I will have to use the pound in the grease way to get it out



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2917
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
04-20-17 05:24 AM - Post#2687440    
    In response to virg809

Hi Virg, if it's the phosphor bronze type leave it in a small jar of oil overnight so that it fully soaks the lube into the pores of the metal before installing it. Some guys squeeze them end to end to see if oil oozes out, if not more soaking, but generally overnight does fine. It should last at least another 50,000 miles or more if you soak it. Provided you put the car in neutral when you stop, and don't just use the clutch as a false neutral.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 04-20-17 05:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
2blu52 
"16th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 17818
2blu52
Age: 83
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
04-20-17 07:15 AM - Post#2687454    
    In response to virg809

  • virg809 Said:
got the tranny and clutch out, went to napa and orielly to borrow a pilot bearing puller, neither one would go in the hole.....guess I will have to use the pound in the grease way to get it out


I broke two pullers, one a Snap On trying to remove mine as a matter of routine repair when doing the clutch and flywheel. So I checked play with a new bearing and just left the old one in place, I did lube it with hi temp white grease however and it has been in place that way for 26,000 miles.


"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-21-17 04:39 AM - Post#2687571    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

trying to get the bearing out not in




 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 25758
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
04-21-17 08:18 AM - Post#2687588    
    In response to virg809

To pull pilot bushings I always run a fine thread tap into them. For a Chevy it should be 5/8" or 16mm. If the bushing bore is badly worn, you may need to go larger than that.

Don't try to use the tap to pull the bushing. If it is really tight, all you will do is strip the threads you just cut. Instead, remove the tap after threading the bushing all the way through and run a screw into the threads. Keep turning the screw after it hits bottom and the bushing will come out. In a perfect world, you would have a steel ball to put into the bore before you run the screw in. This will keep the end of the screw threads and the bottom of the crankshaft bore from being damaged if the bushing is really tight.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5066
56sedandelivery
Age: 65
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
04-21-17 02:17 PM - Post#2687625    
    In response to raycow

You can VERY CAREFULLY split the bushing with a chisel. You don't want to score up the crank hole. Even a NARROW wood chisel will work; the material the bushing is made of is fairly soft. I have always used the "pack-with-grease-and-pou nd-it-out" method; a 3/8" drive, Craftsman extension,
"female end", is just the right size, and I use a brass hammer. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
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Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
04-21-17 09:52 PM - Post#2687696    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

Hi Guys I am sure Butch meant to say engineers splitting chisel, or key way chisel. The fourth from the left is the one.
He couldn't possibly have meant a wood working one that he also uses to open paint tins.

Actually a tiny nick won't hurt in the flywheel as the bush is an interference fit in it, but try not too.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: Splitting_chizel.jpg (4.85 KB) 7 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-22-17 12:19 PM - Post#2687758    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

got it out, got the tool from orielly and filed down the fingers just a smidge and used a slide hammer , came out with 3 whacks



 
virg809 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 50

Age: 74
Loc: ks
Reg: 11-08-15
04-28-17 05:28 AM - Post#2688682    
    In response to virg809

got my new kit, now to get it in



 

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