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LMC Truck



Username Post: Engine swap 1995 S10 2wd        (Topic#343314)
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 113

Age: 26
Loc: Jamestown ND
Reg: 01-25-16
03-14-17 06:02 PM - Post#2681571    

Hey yall, just thought id ask on here in case there are any surprises waiting for me, customer has a 1994 or 1995 s10 2wd manual pickup, the engine was knocking hard he said, so he went and bought a used jasper engine (yes it has the jasper warranty ID tag on it still) supposedly only 40K on it but the spark plugs told a different story, anyway new plugs and wires. but he never asked what year the jasper was... it has the newer computer attached to it and the engine wiring harness from the donor truck, including sensors,and accesories/exhaust. i think that the jasper is from the 1996 or 1997 when they put in OBDII, because thats what it appears to be. but its NOT the vortec 2.2L that started in 1998 externally it appears almost identical with the exception of no AC compressor, and the belt, and 3 blade fan


The intake and precat exhaust are identical.


Can i install the donor engine and computer/harness and plug it up to the body harness? preliminary inspection shows that the connector seems identical except for 2 or 3 more wires used.

or would i need to keep the older harness and computer and wire it up to the donor engine? the sensors all seem to have the same connectors for the ones i looked at.

Any tips to get the engine out? i read on a few forums its hard to get to the top tranny bolts and maybe have to remove the engine mounts from the body to clear?

1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1
1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600
1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14




Edited by MuddiGGer25 on 03-14-17 06:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
LMC Trucks
junkman104 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1083
junkman104
Age: 58
Loc: Murphy N.C.
Reg: 01-25-14
03-18-17 06:03 PM - Post#2682133    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Everything yo want to know without me typing.... http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f105/2-2-growin g-pains-321784/



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 23882
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
03-19-17 04:00 AM - Post#2682172    
    In response to junkman104

I use several long extensions and u joint to reach the top transmission bolts.

I'll have to read up on the 2.2L. I don't know nothing about them. I have never worked on one either.

'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 113

Age: 26
Loc: Jamestown ND
Reg: 01-25-16
03-28-17 01:11 PM - Post#2683849    
    In response to gchemist

Ok new development, the truck is a 10/1995 date code so, i think thats technically a 1996, the donor "jasper" is a 1997 so the block as far as i know from reading that link should be the same. I already have it mounted up and wired up, trans is connected etc. fluids are all full.

The only sensor i had to swap was the Crankshaft Position Sensor, because the connectors were different, There was another sensor just slightly forward farther a 1 1/16 wrench fit on it but not enough room to move the wrench and i didnt have a deep enough 1 1/16 socket to swap the original into the donor block, but the connectors were identical just the 96 had 1 wire and the 97 had 3 wires.


Heres the situation: The engine cranks, but fires up for a moment then sputters out, When i use a spark tester i only see spark for a moment

12V is good at the coil packs, so is the ground.
I used a digital multimeter to check the AC signal from the crankshaft sensor, and I got a reading within specs according to the guide here:

http://easyautodiagnostic s.com/gm/2.2L/icm-and-cra...

both sensors look like this: https://dgzmd7u6z2by7.cloudfront.net/partimage/ECS...

but since i dont have yellow and purple, i had to use purple and a ground to test it with the meter.


The only wires the 96 has are the following:
A- PURPLE wire.
Crankshaft position sensor circuit.

F- RED with BLACK stripe wire.
Ground circuit for ECM

BUT the red with black strip is right next to the purple so that would indicate that its actually "1-4 Ignition Coil Control Signal (comes from the ECM). The service literature will call this the Ignition Control Signal A."


Connector with 2 Wires

A- BLACK (or BLACK with WHITE stripe) wire.
Engine Ground (for the module).
B- PINK wire.
12 Volts with Ignition ON.


I pulled the old coil packs and that is my next step to try but what else can cause random firing?

Fuel is being delivered and can be easily smelled out the exhaust. all injectors, and MAP, TPS, IAT, etc all just plugged right into the harness, same connectors and same wire colors on all other sensors.

1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1
1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600
1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14




 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 113

Age: 26
Loc: Jamestown ND
Reg: 01-25-16
03-29-17 10:38 PM - Post#2684130    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Anyone out there in this vast forum? lol, i wont be going out to try again until friday morning so any tips i can get before heading out would be appreciated

1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1
1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600
1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14




 
junkman104 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1083
junkman104
Age: 58
Loc: Murphy N.C.
Reg: 01-25-14
03-30-17 04:06 AM - Post#2684140    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Are you sure the Jasper isn't a 98. Re-read the crankshaft part of the link I sent you. Also look at the cam section.



Edited by junkman104 on 03-30-17 04:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 113

Age: 26
Loc: Jamestown ND
Reg: 01-25-16
03-30-17 09:48 AM - Post#2684177    
    In response to junkman104

I reread that, but if i understand correctly the timing would just be overly advanced if its the 1998 crank, but it should still fire, but i dont think thats the case, because it runs perfect for a few seconds then stalls out again, and when i try and check the spark, im not getting any, and it even ran on only 3 cyl bc i forgot to reconnect the 3rd wire and the owner tried cranking it without asking me first, and it fired up for a few moments too.

Im going to bring a nicer multimeter with me tomorrow and retest the crankshaft sensor output yet again but it tested right and was getting a solid signal every time we cranked the engine

1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1
1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600
1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14




 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 113

Age: 26
Loc: Jamestown ND
Reg: 01-25-16
03-31-17 10:54 PM - Post#2684456    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Ok, heres an update:

Replaced the ICM/coils "assembly" with a known working used set, no spark.

I used that website above to check for Hz output and i got what appeared to be a proper reading.

I also used the directions from the above website to check for AC voltage, which i did get a solid reading both times the engine was cranking over, and i have a video on my phone i can upload to youtube of cranking it.

I was doing some browsing on autozone (because i used to work at one and i am most familiar with thier products) and because they have wiring diagrams, flow charts and specs for most vehicles.


So i typed in a 1998 S10 2wd 2.2L P/U and a 1996 S10 2wd 2.2L and the 1996 shows a full service kt link here:
http://www.autozone.com/engine-management/cra nksha...

That will let me wire up the newer style 2 pin (which is what WAS in the jasper block that went INTO the truck but i put the OLD CKP sensor into the new block so i could use the existing harness.


I am planning to call them tomorrow and see if there are instructions on how to wire it, because the 1996 CKP has yellow, red, and purple IIRC and the 2 wire is missing the red. but now i cant remember, been a long night at my other job, i think there are pictures on my phone of the wire colors, but its dead right now.

Does anyone know off hand if and how i can just splice the newer 2pin CKP into the older 3wire harness? i am thinking that while i am getting a valid signal, it might not be the one that the PCM/ECM is looking for and therefore not sparking.

The part i find odd is that the injectors are firing becuase the spark plugs were wet from flooding it for so long

1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1
1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600
1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14




 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 23882
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
04-01-17 07:00 AM - Post#2684472    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

If I'm right. The third wire feeds the fuel pump circuit. I know because I have been working on a 98 Tahoe. No spark either. Codes indicate a crank sensor problem. When I probed the harness connection I found three things. One wire has 12V. One wire is a ground. According to my Power Probe IV. The last wire when probed powered the fuel pump circuit. I'm not sure if it's a direct feed or circuit feed.

'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 113

Age: 26
Loc: Jamestown ND
Reg: 01-25-16
04-05-17 02:57 PM - Post#2685138    
    In response to gchemist

  • gchemist Said:
If I'm right. The third wire feeds the fuel pump circuit. I know because I have been working on a 98 Tahoe. No spark either. Codes indicate a crank sensor problem. When I probed the harness connection I found three things. One wire has 12V. One wire is a ground. According to my Power Probe IV. The last wire when probed powered the fuel pump circuit. I'm not sure if it's a direct feed or circuit feed.



I found the 1996 and 1997/8 wire schematics using links here: http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f62/s-series-se rvice...

and the red in the 1996 is pwer, and in both years in question the yellow is signal and the purple is the signal ground to the PCM, i havent checked the PCM ground yet but i get a valid AC voltage reading when i use an engine ground. so im not sure if maybe thats my problem, but i will probe the connections at the PCM tomorrow.

I dont think the CKP sensor is my headache because from what i can gather is that the CKP sensor gives signal both for the injectors and the coil packs and if the injectors are firing/opening and flooding with fuel then the signal to the coils should be valid also.

I dont want to hassle with splicing in a new style CKP sensor if its not the issue.

Its really boggling me why the injectors are getting fuel and opening but im not getting spark

1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1
1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600
1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14




 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 113

Age: 26
Loc: Jamestown ND
Reg: 01-25-16
04-09-17 07:55 PM - Post#2685788    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

I am so mad at myself, i pulled a plug and it smelled like some fuel but was completely dry... so we probed all the wires and checked the FP relays, the PCM sends power to the relay, the relay works, then there is power to the FP when KOEO and also cranking, but no humming or buzzing from the FP, so the farmer is gonna put in a new fuel pump this week and give me a call one way or the other.


Atleast i got paid for all the hours of troubleshooting


Anyways ill post one last update to this once i hear back from him, but it started with a brand new can of starting fluid so im sure itll be all finished after this.

PS still using the 96 CKP sensor in the 98 block. and its got an OBD2 plug in and it registered on the scan tool and no DTC's or short term codes.. yet. ha

1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1
1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600
1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14




 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 113

Age: 26
Loc: Jamestown ND
Reg: 01-25-16
05-17-17 11:54 AM - Post#2691677    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

I guess i never put a final update here, he put the fuel pump in and it runs great. i borrowed it for about a week, and lots of power, but randomly started missing at low RPM i.e. under 1500 rpm, but cleared up at higher rpm all the way to redline.



1988 V10 Suburban 5.7L TBI/TH350 39K on rebuild 4.10AR GM14FF/GM10SF 235/85R16 & 18.4-16.1
1988 V20 Suburban 6.2L-J/TH400 CA truck, 125K G80 14FF/ GM10 4.10AR GVWR 8,600
1977 Ford Granada ~450HP 302 2bbl/C4 27K original 2.47 215/70R14




 
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