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 Page 1 of 2 12
Username Post: 62 235 into a 53 210 3spd. What's it take?        (Topic#341688)
Arominus 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 5

Reg: 01-04-17
01-04-17 11:22 PM - Post#2669378    

I'm helping a friend with a 53 210 3spd that's got a rod knock. We have a line on a 62 235 for it and I'm trying to make sure I have the full story on what it will take to get the motor in with the minimum amount of effort.

I read on langdons that I need a custom engine mount? Where can I find this? What else do I look out for if we get the motor? I play with late 50s mopars so this I'm taking a crash course to help them out.





 

Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-05-17 12:05 AM - Post#2669380    
    In response to Arominus

Hi Arominus. Welcome. the difference between the 52-4 ish motors and the later ones is the triangular bolt pattern for the side motor mounts is the same. So you need to rework the bottom of the mounting plates that holds the actual engine mount.
Also if the car is was 6V. You need to keep the early flywheel and clutch and starter and just change the solenoid to a 12V as the six and 12v systems don't have the same size flywheels or starter pinion, even though both pinions are 9 tooth they are different diameters. If car is still 6V don't bother but you need to spec the motor back to 6V. Coil generator etc.
These three pictures are of a fellow forum member's version who made new bottom halves based on the new engine, Matched them to the old top part and then finished them out to look factory

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: IMG_3229.jpg (120.45 KB) 5 View(s)




Attachment: IMG_3227.jpg (63.35 KB) 1 View(s)




Attachment: IMG_3222.jpg (96.32 KB) 1 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-05-17 12:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-05-17 12:09 AM - Post#2669381    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi, these are the old mounts left and right, the line to make the first cut, and the block they came from.

Cheers Kiwi

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Attachment: IMG_3201.jpg (109.51 KB) 1 View(s)




Attachment: 1954-chevy-235-engine.jpg (36.15 KB) 1 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-05-17 12:19 AM - Post#2669382    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Again, this is the later block pattern. See how the mount three bolt pattern is upside down and a different shape triangle.
I am not sure who made these second ones and what you can buy or make yourself if you just want a simpler fix. IMO these need a side brace on at least one side of each bracket to stop them flexing continually.
The actual soft mounts and frame brackets are not modified with this type of conversion.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: 261_Long_motor_ex_truck__full_flow_filter_pin_position_58-62.jpg (357.92 KB) 1 View(s)




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48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-05-17 12:24 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
wbeaton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 565
wbeaton
Age: 42
Loc: Hamilton, ON
Reg: 03-07-14
01-05-17 03:48 AM - Post#2669387    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

The 1962 engine will have the water pump mounted lower than the 1953. The fan will only blow on the bottom portion of the rad. Also the water pump shaft is longer and will contact the rad. To get around this, you can buy or make a short shaft water pump or use an adapter to install the 1953 pump on the 1962 motor.

The throttle linkage pivot is in a different location on the 1962. You will have to shorten the rod from the gas pedal to the pivot on the engine.

1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 Door Sedan
1954 235 with Isky Cam, Shaved Head
Dual Carter YF 787S Carbs on Offenhauser Intake
Split Manifold Dual Exhaust
3 Speed with 3.55 Differential
12V Conversion with Alternator
Pertronix Ignition


 
Arominus 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 5

Reg: 01-04-17
01-05-17 06:56 AM - Post#2669402    
    In response to wbeaton

Is it worth the effort to put the 62 motor in vs rebuilding the 53 splash oiler? The 62 is $800 with a trans and we then have to make it work, obviously we don't need that trans that comes with the 62.

Any one have a link to the water pump adapter?



 
wbeaton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 565
wbeaton
Age: 42
Loc: Hamilton, ON
Reg: 03-07-14
01-05-17 07:24 AM - Post#2669409    
    In response to Arominus

I think the 62 is a worth while improvement. $800 does seem a little steep.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1955-1962-CHEVROLE T-235-261...

1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 Door Sedan
1954 235 with Isky Cam, Shaved Head
Dual Carter YF 787S Carbs on Offenhauser Intake
Split Manifold Dual Exhaust
3 Speed with 3.55 Differential
12V Conversion with Alternator
Pertronix Ignition


Edited by wbeaton on 01-05-17 07:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Arominus 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 5

Reg: 01-04-17
01-05-17 07:41 AM - Post#2669415    
    In response to wbeaton

Ill see if we can get it without the Trans for less if they go that way.

The motor has a lot of chrome on it and was just running (v8 swap in the truck it was in i think). It also has the "good" 848 head? thats what butch said over on the HAMB.

Thank you for the link!



 
wbeaton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 565
wbeaton
Age: 42
Loc: Hamilton, ON
Reg: 03-07-14
01-05-17 07:56 AM - Post#2669418    
    In response to Arominus

After 1956, they all had the 848 head. There is value in a known good running engine. Speed parts would also increase the value.

1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 Door Sedan
1954 235 with Isky Cam, Shaved Head
Dual Carter YF 787S Carbs on Offenhauser Intake
Split Manifold Dual Exhaust
3 Speed with 3.55 Differential
12V Conversion with Alternator
Pertronix Ignition


Edited by wbeaton on 01-05-17 07:57 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Keith_Knox 
Moderator and "15th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 5414
Keith_Knox
Age: 75
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
01-05-17 08:03 AM - Post#2669420    
    In response to Arominus

Is the 62 out of a car or truck?
The 53 uses a front mount under the crank pulley. The 62 can be drilled to use the front mounting.


1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010. Stock with rebuilt 52 216 installed May 1966
1996 Chevy Monte Carlo Donated 6/16
2013 F150 Crew Cab


 
wbeaton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 565
wbeaton
Age: 42
Loc: Hamilton, ON
Reg: 03-07-14
01-05-17 08:27 AM - Post#2669425    
    In response to Keith_Knox

  • Keith_Knox Said:
Is the 62 out of a car or truck?
The 53 uses a front mount under the crank pulley. The 62 can be drilled to use the front mounting.




1953 has side mounts. 1949-51 has the front mount. I don't know if the 1953-54 front cross member has the provision for front mounts.

1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 Door Sedan
1954 235 with Isky Cam, Shaved Head
Dual Carter YF 787S Carbs on Offenhauser Intake
Split Manifold Dual Exhaust
3 Speed with 3.55 Differential
12V Conversion with Alternator
Pertronix Ignition


 
rrausch 
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 12981
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
01-05-17 08:40 AM - Post#2669429    
    In response to wbeaton

I'll own 'em. I fabricated these. This might be the first set I made which I later discarded because they put the motor too high in the engine compartment. The second set does have braces.






1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Arominus 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 5

Reg: 01-04-17
01-05-17 09:11 AM - Post#2669437    
    In response to Keith_Knox

The 62 was in a truck



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 24989
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
01-05-17 12:44 PM - Post#2669482    
    In response to Arominus

If for some reason you don't want to fab new engine brackets, commercial swap brackets are finally available. These might be a fairly recent development, because they weren't on this site the last time I looked. They could be the same parts which rrausch is talking about, as they appear to match his description.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10061-1952-54-CHE VY-CAR-w-...

I agree with wbeaton that the 62 engine is definitely a worthwhile improvement over the 53. If you don't want or need the chrome, you can probably sell it to recover part of the cost.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
rrausch 
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 12981
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
01-05-17 03:33 PM - Post#2669515    
    In response to raycow

mine are prettier.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
KaelFarmer 
Senior Member
Posts: 960

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Reg: 03-28-02
01-05-17 04:28 PM - Post#2669530    
    In response to Arominus

I agree that $800 may be a bit steep. Where are you located? Other members might have an idea of another engine available.

Kael



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 24989
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
01-05-17 05:28 PM - Post#2669536    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
mine are prettier.


Oh, I agree, but not everyone has the skills you do. The commercial parts just offer a solution for those who are not as well endowed.

Ray

There's a line between good and evil no wider than a razor's edge - D.S. James Hathaway quoting from The Night Keeper


 
Arominus 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 5

Reg: 01-04-17
01-05-17 06:12 PM - Post#2669548    
    In response to KaelFarmer

We are in on the front range in colorado. I have pictures of the engine, but I don't see a way to attach them to my post. Do we have to host offsite?

There is also a 57 235 for sale for 500 but I really don't think it's as good as the 62 wear/care wise. The 62 is nice and clean and looks to have been decently cared for.



 
Mike JW 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1190
Mike JW
Loc: Arroyo Grande, CA
Reg: 01-19-06
01-05-17 06:48 PM - Post#2669553    
    In response to Arominus

Watch out for that Raddle Can Rebuild. Looks don't mean much when it comes to motors.



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-05-17 09:34 PM - Post#2669569    
    In response to Mike JW

Hi Guys, thanks for adding in the fan and water pump stuff I forgot. As folks are saying the later engine is better but you need to get a good runner and check out compression, cylinder load, oil pressure, temp stability etc.
I haven't had an early engine rebuilt but I would imagine if you got a quality specialist to redo the entire motor top to bottom then you would spend say $3000 and it will need a partial redo in 50,000 miles aprox.
If you get a good running later one and use an oil filter, service it regularly, don't let it get hot or run lean then you may get 30 to 50,000 out of that.
Chevy got better at making those engines far more reliable and long lasting, having made millions of them over more than a decade. They just never tried to make them light, fast, or economical. LOL
So the later the engine in the series the more advances and fixes it has had built in.

If you become a silver supporting member then you can up load Pics direct and you have joined our community in a committed way so the willingness of other to help will match your commitment I am sure. There is an enormous resource here and most of our venerable elder members have forgotten more about your car than you will ever need to know.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-05-17 09:47 PM - Post#2669570    
    In response to rrausch

Hi Robert, Happy New Year, OK so you put your head up over the trenches and called your's prettier.

I'll take the bet and call you on that.

How about these then, that are not even fully dressed and they look like they are a factory part. Half an hour on the linisher and you could not even tell they weren't OE.

So photo's or fold pardner.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: IMG_3237.jpg (105.75 KB) 1 View(s)




Attachment: IMG_3240.jpg (117.35 KB) 2 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-05-17 10:01 PM - Post#2669571    
    In response to raycow

HI Ray, When I do my 261 into the Bel Air I'll buy some of those; and I will use them as a height guide and check with new soft mounts. Take them off and use them as a jig to do what this guy has done to the factory parts to make it look stock. Then sell the aftermarket ones.
That will save me at least half a day if not more battling away in the bay to get the motor pattern hole part made and the motor position right.
If I then threw them in the bin I would still be way ahead on time v dollars. But I will get most of my money back and all the makers engineering time and effort prototyping and verifying them for near free.
I would never make or sell them to anyone else. That's fraud.

Hi Arominus, you are never going to make a set of these like those ones Ray found for you for anything like the price they sell at. So unless you want to work for three to five days or more to make something like them or more OE looking you are wasting your time. Some of us love to do just that and have even made a career out of it. There isn't a dollar in reinventing the wheel so unless your time and skill are of no value, buy some.


Cheers Kiwi


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-05-17 10:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
rrausch 
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 12981
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
01-06-17 08:37 AM - Post#2669634    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

  • Bel Air kiwi Said:
Hi Robert, Happy New Year, OK so you put your head up over the trenches and called your's prettier. I'll take the bet and call you on that................
So photo's or fold pardner.
Cheers Kiwi



What are you betting on? I don't understand your Kiwi-ese sometimes. Are you saying you don't think I really fabricated those? Well, I did.

Here's another set I did. I'm not sure right now which set was the first set (unbraced) and which is the second set that were later braced, but my first set positioned the engine too high and I couldn't get the cast aluminum valve cover off as the back wouldn't clear the firewall at the top of the cove. I believe this set I made out of 4X6 angle iron, but the other set I just had bent at 90 degrees at a friend's machine shop.








1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Keith_Knox 
Moderator and "15th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 5414
Keith_Knox
Age: 75
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
01-06-17 08:35 PM - Post#2669763    
    In response to wbeaton

Darn it, I keep forgetting about those side mounts.

1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010. Stock with rebuilt 52 216 installed May 1966
1996 Chevy Monte Carlo Donated 6/16
2013 F150 Crew Cab


 
Keith_Knox 
Moderator and "15th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 5414
Keith_Knox
Age: 75
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
01-06-17 09:21 PM - Post#2669770    
    In response to Arominus

Pulled out a front mount I have. Took pictures of it. It must be from the parts department as it has holes for a car and a truck when it is a front mount. When they went to the side mounts these didn't have any holes.

Attachment: Front_Mount_2_-_Copy.jpg (175.88 KB) 2 View(s)




Attachment: Front_Mount_3_-_Copy.jpg (273.31 KB) 1 View(s)




1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010. Stock with rebuilt 52 216 installed May 1966
1996 Chevy Monte Carlo Donated 6/16
2013 F150 Crew Cab


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-06-17 09:31 PM - Post#2669773    
    In response to rrausch

Hi Robert, I was joking with you because I know you made them. If you still have the pattern you could make a pair for me! I think the other poster who made the ones from original tops probably took three or four days each to make them look like stock parts. That appeals to me because I used to do that for a job so it has become my aesthetic for parts. It is prohibitively expensive for one off work but that's not my background.
I like the idea that 99% of car people won't pick his change when done and to me that is cool.
I made an alternator bracket for my Cleveland engine that held a Toyota Alternator on the original fuel pump mounting studs. Started out as a piece of angle iron just like you did. 10 hours of cutting filling and linishing you couldn't tell.

Cheers Kiwi


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-06-17 09:37 PM - Post#2669774    
    In response to Keith_Knox

Hi Keith, That's a tilted over engine style one. Maybe was in a bus or something? Could it be from a GMC school bus or maybe some type of cab-over truck?
That would be quite rare now.

Cheers kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-06-17 09:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
rrausch 
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 12981
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
01-07-17 10:14 AM - Post#2669839    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Thanks Kiwi. I'd make you a set but it's 2 degrees F this morning and the barn is unheated.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Coupe50 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 31
Coupe50
Loc: Sweden
Reg: 04-27-14
01-14-17 12:03 AM - Post#2671084    
    In response to rrausch

Just a quick question on this subject. I have a -62 engine in my -50 Coupe and i use the original engine mounts. Is it ok? I just have the engine renovated (right word??)so i dont want to have any problem when i put it back in the car. Carla.



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2070
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-14-17 12:12 AM - Post#2671085    
    In response to Coupe50

Hi Carla, No problem to use a front mount with a later engine, Somebody must have done the change already. Make sure your two mounts at the rear of the motor are in good condition. There are lots of styles of mount which depends on the year of the vehicle and the year of the motor. Up to 52 all were front mount. 52-54 were an unusual tower type side mount. 55 On were a regular side mount but the pattern on the block was different.
The combination we have been discussing is a 51-4 car with a 55 or later motor.
I am not 100% if 55 was the motor change but if its 58- on it definitely is.

We would say rebuilt or reconditioned, but we know what you mean.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-14-17 12:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

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