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Username Post: 1964 BelAir sedan restoration        (Topic#341408)
Sauceman 
Contributor
Posts: 103
Sauceman
Loc: Napanee, Ontario
Reg: 08-29-15
12-22-16 05:22 PM - Post#2667334    

Hey troops!

Got another one in the shop, a 1964 BelAir sedan. This thing is a bare bones base model, 250 six, 3 on the tree and radio delete. No power steering or power brakes lol!

I should have the rest of the parts in tomorrow so we can get started on this cream puff! She needs lots of work, floor pans, braces, inner and outer rockers, dog legs, rear 1/4 patches, fender patches, body mounts, frame repair and new kidneys.

At the owners house,







At the shop,




cheers



Good judgement comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgement.

Yugoslavia '94' , Israel/Syria '99 , Bosnia '02 , Afghanistan '08-'09



 
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rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13434
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
12-22-16 08:33 PM - Post#2667380    
    In response to Sauceman

What the plans for the engine/trans? These old babies can still be a lot of fun when they've got their 6-bangers.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 406

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
12-22-16 09:55 PM - Post#2667393    
    In response to Sauceman

Good to see another X frame getting a new lease on life. I ran the full circle tracking down a 63. Looking for additional parts I never realized how hard these cars are to find in running condition. Living in the midwest doesn't help longevity. With the popularity increasing hopefully more reproduction parts will come available. Nice find !



 
Sauceman 
Contributor
Posts: 103
Sauceman
Loc: Napanee, Ontario
Reg: 08-29-15
12-23-16 04:56 AM - Post#2667419    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
What the plans for the engine/trans? These old babies can still be a lot of fun when they've got their 6-bangers.




All stock!


cheers

Good judgement comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgement.

Yugoslavia '94' , Israel/Syria '99 , Bosnia '02 , Afghanistan '08-'09



 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 406

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
12-23-16 07:23 AM - Post#2667435    
    In response to Sauceman

With the new master cylinder and spark plugs ................ it appears this is a recent daily driver. Paint looks original with associated patina. Like potato chips, you can't just have one. My antennas are up for another. Maybe a thin top or a pre sixty five super sport. Convertibles in rebuildable condition have already hit the roof.
Can't wait to see the progress shots and information. I learn everyday on this forum.



 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13434
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
12-23-16 08:12 AM - Post#2667447    
    In response to stingray caretaker

All stock! Outstanding!

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Verne_Frantz 
61-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 5139
Verne_Frantz
Loc: Hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
12-23-16 10:48 AM - Post#2667475    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
All stock! Outstanding!




Ditto!

Verne



 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13434
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
12-23-16 04:09 PM - Post#2667547    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

True story from 1965. One of my High School buddies drove his dad's '63 4-door, 250, three on the tree. We ran all over the countryside in that car. About that time I started dating the daughter of a neighboring town's sheriff, who owned a '62 Pontiac Grand Prix. And the sheriff, seeing that I was an outstanding young man, let me take his daughter out on dates in the car from time to time. One night she and I were out in her dad's car, and we ran into my buddy in his dad's '63 4-door and we headed out of town... we came to a long stretch of straight road and he tried to pass me. I let him get alongside and then I stomped the gas pedal... no cars were coming for the next two miles. I slowly pulled ahead and then HE STARTED GAINING ON ME. He outran me on the top end in that '63 Chevy 6-cyl.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
gofastwclass 
Contributor
Posts: 874

Loc: In the garage
Reg: 08-19-14
12-23-16 09:35 PM - Post#2667597    
    In response to rrausch

Nice.

1961 Impala mild custom build

I build my own stuff...


 
Verne_Frantz 
61-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 5139
Verne_Frantz
Loc: Hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
12-24-16 11:55 AM - Post#2667673    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
True story from 1965. One of my High School buddies drove his dad's '63 4-door, 250, three on the tree. We ran all over the countryside in that car. About that time I started dating the daughter of a neighboring town's sheriff, who owned a '62 Pontiac Grand Prix. And the sheriff, seeing that I was an outstanding young man, let me take his daughter out on dates in the car from time to time. One night she and I were out in her dad's car, and we ran into my buddy in his dad's '63 4-door and we headed out of town... we came to a long stretch of straight road and he tried to pass me. I let him get alongside and then I stomped the gas pedal... no cars were coming for the next two miles. I slowly pulled ahead and then HE STARTED GAINING ON ME. He outran me on the top end in that '63 Chevy 6-cyl.



Overdrive car?????



 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 406

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
12-24-16 12:49 PM - Post#2667685    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

The sheriff was no dummy. He put a throttle stop on the linkage. He knows kids and wants to keep his wheels safe.
389s in 62 were over 300hp ( base engine ). That car should have had some good performance ......... or were you distracted ???????




 
Tri5man 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3472
Tri5man
Loc: Possums Crotch, KY
Reg: 06-26-07
12-24-16 03:32 PM - Post#2667716    
    In response to stingray caretaker

Outrunning that Pontiac with a Chevy 6 sounds pretty fishy to me. I'd have to see it to believe it.



 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13434
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
12-24-16 08:32 PM - Post#2667738    
    In response to Tri5man

Verne, it could have been an overdrive car. My buddy Dean held things close to his vest and could have had O.D. on it and not told us just to impress or confound us. Truthfully I don't know if it did or not.

Stingray C., that is possible. Besides being a sheriff, he also owned a garage/gas station in town. He lived in a nice house out in the country, on their ranch, and certainly was proficient in the use of tools.

It was hard to get distracted in that Grand Prix, because of the center console--she couldn't sit next to me like we both liked.

He had horses--he and his wife and daughter all were trail riders--and he towed a horse trailer with the Grand Prix. I have also thought it possible he had a higher-than-normal rear-end ratio for towing. Whatever the reason, the Grand Prix ran out of steam around 90 and Dean went right on past me.



1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13434
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
12-24-16 08:46 PM - Post#2667739    
    In response to rrausch

The sheriff also owned a small salvage yard in the same small town, and sold me a wrecked '56 Pontiac along with a '46 Chevy panel truck that had no engine or trans. I pulled the entire drivetrain out of the Poncho and put the rear end under the panel truck in our driveway. The engine and Hydramatic I put in, in High School Ag Shop, on a day our teacher was away. I later put a TriPower set-up on the engine. I bought the Tri-Power for $30, I didn't even have to rebuild the carbs and just bolted it on. Those were the days! I was drafted into the Army in 1970 and when I got out I found that my older brother had given the panel truck away.



1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1132
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
12-25-16 06:30 AM - Post#2667757    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

Stock. Great!!

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (25 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (2 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
dcairns 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2036
dcairns
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
12-25-16 10:00 PM - Post#2667866    
    In response to Brian64SS

Nice to see another 64 4 door getting some love

- Dave
1964 Impala 4-door sedan

_________
/ --------------- \
_/ /___________\ \_
/_________|_________\
|OOO ___________ OOO|
\______|====|______/
|_|------------------|_|




 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 406

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
12-25-16 10:32 PM - Post#2667868    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
The sheriff also owned a small salvage yard in the same small town, and sold me a wrecked '56 Pontiac along with a '46 Chevy panel truck that had no engine or trans. I pulled the entire drivetrain out of the Poncho and put the rear end under the panel truck in our driveway. The engine and Hydramatic I put in, in High School Ag Shop, on a day our teacher was away. I later put a TriPower set-up on the engine. I bought the Tri-Power for $30, I didn't even have to rebuild the carbs and just bolted it on. Those were the days! I was drafted into the Army in 1970 and when I got out I found that my older brother had given the panel truck away.





Is your brother still living ? That would be cause for some very physical consideration.
I completely rebuilt a 20s coupe for my dad. My older brother some how got the title and it disappeared. Needless to say he doesn't get a Christmas card.



 
Red64SS 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 453
Red64SS
Loc: Georgia
Reg: 10-04-10
12-26-16 06:54 PM - Post#2667960    
    In response to stingray caretaker

If you want a cool 64 2-door project, checkout mine in the sale section.

64 Impala SS AC convertible 66K mile survivor.
Almost identical to the 1st new car I bought in 1964
64 Bel Air 2-door sedan 327 w/factory AC (project) For Sale
2007 Silverado 2500 diesel
1972 BMW 3.0 CSL
1957 Thunderbird



 
Sauceman 
Contributor
Posts: 103
Sauceman
Loc: Napanee, Ontario
Reg: 08-29-15
01-12-17 06:00 PM - Post#2670821    
    In response to Red64SS

Ok back to the restoration

I'll start with a pic of one the handiest tools in the restoration trade, my plasma cutter!



Some of the new parts waiting installation,



Floor pans getting removed,



The frame looks worst than it really is, it's actually pretty solid, just a few issues behind the rear axle,



This is about a 1/4 of the shop space, pretty much all availble floor space is occupied



The underside of the trunk is MINT, not touching it at all.



More surgery,



most of the floor is now removed,



Starting to work on the inner rockers,



They are pretty bad,







The rear seat pan goes in before the floor so this will be prepped first after the inner rockers and braces,



Building a new lip for the inner rocker to attach to,



The inner rocker will sit on this lip and the floors sit on top of that,



The front section of the rockers will need some minor fabrication,



The pile so far, still have to remove the seat belt anchors and rear seat hold downs so nothing gets thrown out!




until next time!



cheers

Good judgement comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgement.

Yugoslavia '94' , Israel/Syria '99 , Bosnia '02 , Afghanistan '08-'09



 
56_Kruiser 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2717
56_Kruiser
Loc: St. Augustine, Fl
Reg: 09-23-05
01-12-17 07:06 PM - Post#2670840    
    In response to Sauceman

Interesting. Keep the info coming.

Nice garage and work area.

1956 Belair Convertible

Bubbletop Build Thread



 
dcairns 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2036
dcairns
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
01-12-17 09:36 PM - Post#2670870    
    In response to Sauceman

I find that pad on the inside of the trunk lid interesting. I don't recall seeing that before, although your's does look original. Anyone, know if that was some sort of option? My 64 just had some glue daps between the trunk lid frame and outer skin, presumably to keep it from rattling.

- Dave
1964 Impala 4-door sedan

_________
/ --------------- \
_/ /___________\ \_
/_________|_________\
|OOO ___________ OOO|
\______|====|______/
|_|------------------|_|




 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 406

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
01-12-17 10:01 PM - Post#2670876    
    In response to dcairns

Thought about a plasma but felt I didn't have enough work to justify. Between the acetylene tank and the cutting disks I have managed so far. How does it cut rusted metal ? I know a machine that cuts 3/8" and less would make some yard art projects finish quicker.



 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13434
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
01-12-17 10:03 PM - Post#2670878    
    In response to 56_Kruiser

Nice garage. Nice old Craftsman drill press.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
gofastwclass 
Contributor
Posts: 874

Loc: In the garage
Reg: 08-19-14
01-13-17 02:45 AM - Post#2670895    
    In response to stingray caretaker

Wow Sauceman. That rust looks like the four door version of my car! I had to do a lot of fabricating to get mine to a point where I was able to weld the floors in. Nice work so far.




  • stingray caretaker Said:
Thought about a plasma but felt I didn't have enough work to justify. Between the acetylene tank and the cutting disks I have managed so far. How does it cut rusted metal ? I know a machine that cuts 3/8" and less would make some yard art projects finish quicker.



Speaking as a man with a good quality plasma cutter (Miller Spectrum 375 Extreme) who just did a floor install... a plasma cutter is only as good as it's electrical potential. The heavier the rust and scale, the worse the cut. I can slice through new 3/8" steel like butter, but it wasn't as quick on heavily rusty floors as it is on the non-rusted or less rusted floor sections.

One great benefit to a plasma for this job is the fact that the unit is much neater than a torch. Plasma cutters are smaller, lighter and much more friendly to surrounding metal or parts. Overall the plasma is much safer to use and has a dead man switch that kills the tool when your hand isn't on it. With a plasma you also need a solid source for clean, dry air or you will be disappointed.

A torch still has it's merits and I use one for various jobs - mainly a heat source, but the plasma earned it's keep in my shop years ago. Once you use one (especially a good one) you will find it isn't the direct comparison you thought it would be.

If you're ever in the KC area, let me know...

1961 Impala mild custom build

I build my own stuff...


 
Sauceman 
Contributor
Posts: 103
Sauceman
Loc: Napanee, Ontario
Reg: 08-29-15
01-13-17 04:59 PM - Post#2670995    
    In response to gofastwclass

  • Quote:
Nice garage and work area.



Thanks!

  • Quote:
I find that pad on the inside of the trunk lid interesting. I don't recall seeing that before, although your's does look original. Anyone, know if that was some sort of option? My 64 just had some glue daps between the trunk lid frame and outer skin, presumably to keep it from rattling.




Yes it looks factory and the last 64 Impala convertible never had it. I just find it hard to believe that the only option installed on this car was a trunk lid liner LOL.



  • Quote:
Thought about a plasma but felt I didn't have enough work to justify. Between the acetylene tank and the cutting disks I have managed so far. How does it cut rusted metal ? I know a machine that cuts 3/8" and less would make some yard art projects finish quicker.



It cuts rusted metal just fine, no worries.

  • Quote:
Nice garage. Nice old Craftsman drill press.



I like the old stuff, they just work. Here's my shop fridge, a 1934 GE that works great!



  • Quote:
Wow Sauceman. That rust looks like the four door version of my car! I had to do a lot of fabricating to get mine to a point where I was able to weld the floors in. Nice work so far.




Thanks! Yes the top of the inner rockers and the fronts behind the fender will need some serious attention before I'm able to get the floors welded in.


cheers



Good judgement comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgement.

Yugoslavia '94' , Israel/Syria '99 , Bosnia '02 , Afghanistan '08-'09



 
gofastwclass 
Contributor
Posts: 874

Loc: In the garage
Reg: 08-19-14
01-13-17 10:19 PM - Post#2671067    
    In response to Sauceman

Awesome refrigerator!

Are you going to replace the brake and fuel lines while the floor is out? I find it interesting how some of these cars have fuel lines running through the tunnel and others (seemingly the later ones) run around it.

1961 Impala mild custom build

I build my own stuff...


 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6585
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
01-14-17 05:40 AM - Post#2671097    
    In response to gofastwclass

  • gofastwclass Said:
Awesome refrigerator!

Are you going to replace the brake and fuel lines while the floor is out? I find it interesting how some of these cars have fuel lines running through the tunnel and others (seemingly the later ones) run around it.


Through the tunnel was the 3/8 inch lines and was used on dual exhaust cars. All 348's and 409's were 3/8 line & dual exhaust, but factory dual exhaust 283's and 327's had the 3/8 line as well.

Don

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
Sauceman 
Contributor
Posts: 103
Sauceman
Loc: Napanee, Ontario
Reg: 08-29-15
01-14-17 06:54 AM - Post#2671102    
    In response to gofastwclass

  • gofastwclass Said:
Awesome refrigerator!

Are you going to replace the brake and fuel lines while the floor is out? I find it interesting how some of these cars have fuel lines running through the tunnel and others (seemingly the later ones) run around it.



The body will be coming off the frame, the frame will be repaired as required, sand blasted and painted. So yes all lines will be replaced before the body sits back down


cheers


Good judgement comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgement.

Yugoslavia '94' , Israel/Syria '99 , Bosnia '02 , Afghanistan '08-'09



 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 406

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
01-15-17 12:25 PM - Post#2671347    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
Nice garage. Nice old Craftsman drill press.



An eye for quality. I recently came across an older larger Delta drill press. Have a Craftsman but can't resist old world quality. As I recall Wards had a similar press " Power Craft " I believe. The newer generation except " Ellis " doesn't ring my bell.




 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 406

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
01-15-17 12:31 PM - Post#2671349    
    In response to Sauceman

Saucepan;
You look quite experienced but approximately how many hours do you feel it will take to have it completed so normal body work will began.
Looking at it from another way the car should be almost a new 64 when metal crafted. It may seem expensive for labor and materials but replacement in a new " look alike throw away " isn't a bargain either. Thanks in advance. I know your concentrating on time involved.



 
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