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 Page 1 of 2 12
Username Post: Jag IFS Mount brackets.        (Topic#340734)
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 03:49 PM - Post#2662439    

Hi Guys, I get this as an off line topic quite a bit so I thought I would post my latest response.
As the great cookbook said "first catch your fish"

So what Jags work and what are harder to do.
You are looking for xj6 sedans from series 1,2,3. up to mid 85-6. S1 brakes aren't vented, s3 got some metric bolts. All the same otherwise.
After 86 it has to be a V12, before doesn't matter.
If you want to use the rear, the V12 is stronger and LSD center.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: 79_XJ_Sedan.jpg (8.08 KB) 32 View(s)




Attachment: 1985_Jag.jpg (87.47 KB) 35 View(s)




Attachment: The_right_engine_for_the_good_front..jpg (11.26 KB) 51 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 

Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 04:06 PM - Post#2662441    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: The silver saloon in this image is the later series sedan and has the strut tower version of the front end, which doesn't suit our needs.
The correct front end is shown although this is a RHD one, Just a mirror of the US market ones for the steering. It has the same spring in cage system as the old Chevy. Which is why of course it fits so easily. The track width is very very close and the stud pattern is the same. The wheel hub hole size is slightly different and the consideration here is do you want to run original rims, as later ones fit without dealing with this.
The last image is the front end that comes in later models. Anything with a 4.0L injection or the square headlights. Still a fine front end but it is jut a mission to make it fit. steer clear of this one.

Cheers Kiwi


Attachment: Jaguar_XJ40.jpg (377.76 KB) 33 View(s)




Attachment: Early_Jag_front_simple_install.jpg (48.87 KB) 66 View(s)




Attachment: 2002_jag_front_end.jpg (68.36 KB) 35 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 04:47 PM - Post#2662450    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: This is what the correct front end looks like as it comes from the Jag. It features some frame horns that go forward with large isolator bushings. These have a function in the Jag as it is a unitary body and does not have a separate chassis. You can keep them if you want but they don't do anything in a chassis type car so they are usually cut off carefully.
The same for the engine mounts which also won't be required.
Do not get excited and cut off the steering rack mounts as they very much matter.
I would toss those rusty old horns as well.

The only thing that needs adding to the assembly is shock absorber top mounts. The original Jag ran a very long shock absorber up into the car body; and most applications are going to require a shorter unit to fit in. It won't be as subtle but I doubt you will ever notice. Choose a better than average brand and you will be fine. Because we put these in a range of vehicles, we used a quite short shock from a GMH Torana, (I think), as it fit everything. There is no reason why you can not make your shock longer provided you remember how much load and deflection shocks put into there mounts.

Cheers Kiwi



Attachment: Jag_front_as_removed.jpg (70.7 KB) 33 View(s)




Attachment: Jag_front_cleaned_down.jpg (60.81 KB) 38 View(s)




Attachment: Steering_column_Shock_and_RF_mount.jpg (48.36 KB) 48 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 04:51 PM - Post#2662452    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: The next stage is the location of the unit in the frame. Some may weld them in permanently, some may just bolt in. I sit half way on this in that I want a bolt in assembly I can verify and then some extra weld that is accessible to undo should future changes or repairs be necessary.

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 05:25 PM - Post#2662462    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: I have to acknowledge that the brackets shown are by postal cop a fellow forum member, not my work.
In the first image of the whole engine bay you will probably have to blow the picture up to see what our mounts look like. They start with a flat plate that matches the chassis mount surface and rivet holes much the same as PC's. However we do the gussets to support the inner side differently. Not better or worse, just differently. It also appear PC left part of the engine mount in place to use for support.

The difference in our bracket is we used a separate piece that goes under and inside the line of the bolts directly under the vertical of the top hat section. It also goes from end for end. Its a bit more fussy and is extra work to do by hand for a one off. But it means the gusset doesn't have to be omitted where the bolts are which gives us a fill length weld across the member below. Given that the flat plate transfers all the braking and turning loads into the chassis I like a full weld on that side.
Both brackets ultimately achieve the same thing.
Two flat mounting pads that position the front end correctly: lenghtways (Wheelbase), sideways (tracked and centered), and pitched (Caster correct.)
Once that is all in place and verified then I would recommend a small bead of weld across the ends of the plates to support the bolts.
If you wreck the front end these are easy to grind off.

Cheers Kiwi


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Attachment: Jag_Bracket_postalcop.jpg (247.27 KB) 49 View(s)




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48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 05:35 PM - Post#2662464    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: You may notice in our RHD install a few pictures up that there is a notch in the chassis and the universal seems tight. Both are true but this universal doesn't swing as its only one off a pair. It is the original jag one and is used as its OE quality and often comes with the unit.
To put the notch in the metal is heated cherry red in the right spot, a heavy wall pipe laid at the angle and it is given a big belt with the heavy hammer. It sounds crude but this if far superior metallurgically to cutting and electric welding.
What you do with the end of the steering column is the same regardless as to whiter you fit a Jag or M2 except the Jag rack is on the rear.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: V8_Rh_Engine_mount_and_chassis_notch_for_Rack.jpg (42.76 KB) 40 View(s)




Attachment: Steering_column_Shock_and_RF_mount.jpg (48.36 KB) 37 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 06:54 PM - Post#2662478    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: This is just a sketch of the bracket we made done from memory and not to scale. The flat plate is relatively simple and although its not shown in the images the edges would be de-burred and the corners hit with the linisher to round them and avoid pressure points on the frame.
The vertical piece I have shown as parallel but in practice it may not be, I also recall the bottom edge was angled to mate with the jaguar member.
It was welded end for end onto the plate on the outside and stitched on the inside. Only the centre part contacted the Jag member and I have done a darker patch to show where that would be welded finally and two line across the rear of the plate to also lock it in to the frame last.
The extra length in the brace is not redundant or overkill as this is taking the Braking loads and spreading them as widely along the top plate and frame connection as possible.
From memory the gusset was welded onto the plate slightly oversize and fettled to fit the jag member as it gave a much easier weld access. Then the two combined parts were welded onto the member.
The top plate was only stitched to the frame at the ends where shown as extra support for the bolts. In theory not required but that theory requires that bolts don't work loose under load, and that is not my experience.
Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: Scan_20161121.jpg (2.87 KB) 91 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Tony on 11-20-16 07:04 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 07:26 PM - Post#2662483    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: Just a better sized image of the bracket, Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: Jag_bracket.jpg (32.22 KB) 43 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 08:10 PM - Post#2662487    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued. In the spirit of fair comment the alternate variances need to be considered. Here are a weld in Mustang 2 with airbags and a bolt in Mustang 2 with coil springs.

In truth very little of the Mustang survives in these aftermarket front ends, primarily the rack location and style plus the layout of the arms. Most of the hub and Brake assembly is in fact repro GM parts from heavier vehicles. The arms and member/s are usually fabricated so also not M2 parts

The downside is only cost. A running Jag or the parts from one can quite often be had for about a quarter the price, and they are a very thoroughly refined OE unit.
They are fundamentally a very similar amount of work to install with the major difference being the rack position, and mounting style. Both need brake master upgrades for discs and safety plus steering column changes.

The M2 is probably more adjustable and has a wider range of springs and shocks available. That being said the Jag is a very similar size and weight vehicle right of the bat and I haven't ever changed front springs.

Some part of the price consideration of the M2 must be that these are new repo parts and should have a very long service life, whereas if the Jag was poorly maintained then replacement parts may be needed sooner. They are still mostly available but not overnight in every location.

Cheers Kiwi



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Attachment: M2_Front_51-2.jpg (414.91 KB) 43 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 09:30 PM - Post#2662497    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: the third consideration in upgrading front ends is the clip. This can be very economical also, and meet specialist needs, but it requires a whole lot of time and experience.
The closer the clip is in configuration the the original chassis the better.
So a Good donor needs the same track, chassis width and steering box location. Unfortunately such a thing does not exist as in 55 when the V8 was introduced all the car and pickup frames got wider in the front.
So to Quote Meatloaf "two out of three ain't bad"
Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: Convertible_Frame.jpg (24.25 KB) 42 View(s)




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Attachment: 55-6_frame.jpg (80.42 KB) 40 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 11-20-16 09:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-20-16 10:24 PM - Post#2662500    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: So what you are looking for is a GM front clip with the right track width and rear steering box location in as narrow a frame as possible. So this is generally a Gen One Camaro or a Gen Two Nova with rear steer and anything else that follows that pattern.
Please be aware they don't line up exactly in the frame and both sides will be different so the alignment issues are far more complex than a bolt over or under modular assembly.

A fellow contributor, 40 Grit has just recently done such a conversion and his selection of front end was based on the skill set he has vs the time and availability to fit the engine of his choice. BBC. Prior to attempting this conversion he had to convert the frame from Bel Air to convertible to match the vehicle

So take a good long look at that floor job, the frame conversion center section and the tools and equipment in view in the workshop. If that isn't where you start on skills resources and time then you are probably going to a very dark place trying to do a clip properly.
Cheers Kiwi

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48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
rickityfifty 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 81
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
11-20-16 10:33 PM - Post#2662501    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Kiwi,
thank you for that huge amount of information. I think I can fabricate something out of 8mm x 100mm flat plate using a combination of your design and Postalcop's.
I want to make as much of it before I start pulling the car apart as possible to reduce the time it will be occupying borrowed workshop space.
regards,
Rickity

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck SOLD
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-21-16 12:26 AM - Post#2662503    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: The three images shown here represent a small fraction of the work that goes into making a viable clip conversion. If you had to pay the hours vs skill rate for this sort of work a complete aftermarket chassis is cheaper.
The reason that it doesn't look like the usual botched mismatch is because it isn't. I would hazard a guess that this is beyond 90% plus of forum menbers skills and that it is superior to the vast majority of clip attempts which look like the cross between an abortion and a girder bridge.

Cheers Kiwi

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Attachment: Convert_clip_done..jpg (556.62 KB) 33 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 11-21-16 12:27 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-21-16 06:36 AM - Post#2662527    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: And here is the clipping fail. An S10 in a Bel Air from the Hamb. Superficially it looks similar to 40 Grits but the big differences are the steering box is in the wrong place and the overall track width is a couple of inches narrow per side. Without going to longer fabricated top and bottom "A arms and longer tie rods this thing will drastically and dangerously reduce the front track. Note also all the cross members in the rest of the chassis are gone.
Workmanship OK, thinking, not so much!

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: S10_to_Belair_clipping_fail_1.jpg (78.77 KB) 46 View(s)




Attachment: S10_to_Belair_clipping_fail_2.jpg (70.04 KB) 42 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
11-21-16 06:39 AM - Post#2662528    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Continued: And then there are complete frames.
Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: AME-9337_49-50_Chevy_car.jpg (69.1 KB) 41 View(s)




Attachment: 49-54-Chevy_Roadster_shop_optioned.jpg (299.98 KB) 44 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
40grit 
Contributor
Posts: 350
40grit
Age: 72
Loc: Chattanooga, Tn
Reg: 07-08-13
12-02-16 09:50 PM - Post#2664305    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Very informative Kiwi. Well done.

One question, What height does the everage Jag clip sit at in our cars. Do the 49-54's normally sit at the origional factory height with the Jag front?

John

Just Slightly Abrasive


Edited by 40grit on 12-02-16 09:51 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-02-16 10:11 PM - Post#2664311    
    In response to 40grit

Hi John, The jag front just lapped up to the underside of the top hat chassis sits very slightly lower. Maybe 3/4 inch or so.
On Pickups with the C channel chassis you box the area and then you can actually cut into the jag member to set the PU chassis into it to go lower.
You can get a couple more inches that way.
There are lowered spindles for the Jag front but I bet they would be really expensive and hard to get.
Other forum members may be able to tell you where they got too using one.

I think this is the front end to use for a non show car interstate cruiser or daily driver. You won't be able to slam it but for a near stock sleeper with a bit more boogie it will just drive sweet and stop and turn at any speed you realistically need.
You would want to be a fairly smart suspension engineer to start trying to lower the Jag by changing the modular unit. Far better to set the unit height in the chassis where you want it.
You could trim the top hat flanges where the unit sits and cut the Jag member to rest it into deeper. You would need to weld the trimmed flange area on the hat so it was like a box chassis then set it in and gusset it all up nicely. Not particularly challenging but I have never felt the need. You may also need to notch for the rack.

The problem will soon become getting your donor car.

Cheers Kiwi.

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-02-16 10:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
postalcop 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 129
postalcop
Loc: MO
Reg: 06-01-12
12-02-16 11:24 PM - Post#2664319    
    In response to 40grit

I measured the frame of my 53 with the original suspension and then the Jag suspension after I installed it. The Jag suspension lowered mine by almost an inch and a half. I had also used 3/4 inch steel to weld brackets to the jag suspension so I could just bolt it to the frame.

53 Chevy 210
350 engine / 350 trans
3.42 chevy s-10 rear axle


Edited by postalcop on 12-02-16 11:26 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-02-16 11:30 PM - Post#2664320    
    In response to postalcop

Thanks Postal, I know it varies a little but 3/4 to 1-3/4" is normal. It makes them look like the sales brochures drawings, not stock.
So they are just about ideal ride height without any fancy tweaks or loss of function.

Hey guys, have a look at these two modular units and tell me why the Jag isn't what you would end up if you din't stop developing our original suspension.
Same:
Modular style, underslung chassis mounting, track with, stud pattern, steering rear mount, SLA canted arms, ride height (-1-1/2"), spring position, shock location, anti sway bar position.
Different:
Four pot disc v drum, power rack v box and center idler, king pins for ball joint upright,
Modern suspension bushings v metal. Taper roller wheel bearings v ball roller.
Stable at 120mph v stable at 60 mph.

In short, if good suspension engineers got instructed to add better brakes and steering to the existing 49-54 Design they should end up at the Jag layout. That is the real reason why I feel they are the best front end swap.

Cheers kiwi

Attachment: 1953_chevy_car_front_suspension_.jpg (21.7 KB) 30 View(s)




Attachment: Jag_front_as_removed.jpg (70.7 KB) 29 View(s)




Attachment: Jag_front_cleaned_down.jpg (60.81 KB) 30 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-02-16 11:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-03-16 12:19 AM - Post#2664329    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi John If you want to go super low the chassis is always going to be an issue over the rack and the lower arm mounts. Have a look at the two aftermarket chassis I posted and you will see that the Art Morrison one curves up over the front suspension to allow it to be lower where as the roadster shop one doesn't. A local guy has the Morrison under his BBC 49 coupe and it works really well. But one of his clients wanted a 54 Bel Air tubbed and super slammed and even the Morrison could've go low enough for this guy. I think Art Morrision has a better understanding of chassis design and vehicle function than this client.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
40grit 
Contributor
Posts: 350
40grit
Age: 72
Loc: Chattanooga, Tn
Reg: 07-08-13
12-03-16 06:13 AM - Post#2664340    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Thanks guys. I have a friend who bought someone elses project '53 convertible which came with a Morrison Chasiis. It sat at a good height but even it was a lot of work. The body mounts are in a box when you get it. At $14,000 it is going to be cost prohibitive for most of us.

My wife has a '04 S Type 4.2 V8 with 84,000 miles on it. She has quit driving and I keep looking at thar car sitting there. ...........Maybe graft the '53 body to the Jag platform????

Just a thought.

John

Just Slightly Abrasive


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-04-16 11:41 PM - Post#2664637    
    In response to 40grit

Hi 40 Grit, I think if your buddy got a Morrison frame and a convertible he has very little to grumble about. I don't know what labor rates are like in your market but to do what you have done to your convertible shell and panels to bring them back from the dead would cost you $50K plus here and probably close to $15k for the chassis centre swap and clip.
A Morrison frame is about $20K landed here and you can't build the thing for less unless you zero rate your time. But the folks that have the skills and resources tend not to do that.
I am not entirely sure but I think the AM frame uses a Vette front and from what I hear it totally transform the vehicle.
I would not be surprised if a manufacturer left the body mounts of on a Chassis as our beloved Chevrolet is renowned for major differences in alignment, particularly at the back. That's before they got out on the road and got bashed around a bit.

The best thing you could do with a late model jag is sell it and buy whiskey, drink yourself to death slowly and happy. The problem is not the physical stitching together of the two but the complexity and reliability of the rest of the vehicle systems. They are enormously complex. As an example the late HE V12 has two complete radiators in one housing to cross feed the motor and balance cooling, put in a six cylinder radiator and it dies. Each of the twelve injectors has a single wire that runs out of the engine valley the length of the floor pan and into the trunk to the management computer.
Just to guide you, pull of the door trim on the drivers side door. That loom is more wire than you will need to run your entire convert.
I was going to put a later model fuel injected 2.0L version of the Pinto in one of my Capri's that ran carbs. The whole car was only $600 and it was a sweet running engine, and the only change was they had added a standard Ford early computer to the basic car. There were 114 more wires in the loom between the last carb version and the injected version. So I sold it for a $1000 to a young guy who thought he could wire it himself.
Pick the battles you can win would be my advice. The 3.8L V6 Holden/Buick we have here needs 7 wires to an aftermarket computer, and I would sure as hell rather do the mechanical fit up of that than the bolt in and 114 wires of the Ford.

Cheers Kiwi


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-05-16 03:42 AM - Post#2664644    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Ctd The 87 0n non S type front from XJ 40 etc.

These front ends have very little interchangeability with the pre 86 units however they are really only an upgrade of the same idea.
As opposed to the later 2000's stuff that went near full strut.

The Rumor surrounding this change is that Jaguar was going to be instructed by corporate HQ that they were going to replace their Straight six with the Corporate alloy V8 that was badged as a Rover or LandRover and came in variants from the original 3.5 to 3.9 and up to 5.0 for customer sales. This was the old GM alloy V8 that Rover bought of GM decades earlier. They didn't want a 4wd drive pushrod engine in their beloved Jag so they redesigned the front so it couldn't fit. Which also meant that their own V12 would not fit also.

I only retell this story as a cautionary note as I can see no good reason why it would be very much harder to fit the later suspension but there may be some thing about the new subframe that makes engine placement very restricted. This requires some research and verification because it may well provide a source of affordable front ends that are only slightly more difficult to fit.

As can be seen below there already is an XJ40 front in a 52 frame but I can't vouch for how much additional work was required and what it worked like in the finish. Given it runs on airbags that is difficult to ascertain. Airbags are a valid solution in the heavy transport industry but they don't have anything to do with quality suspension in car or other light vehicles.
I am not seeing any ability to shim for caster and camber changes so that may also be a consideration in using this front end in an alternate vehicle, as it will be sensitive to these being incorrect.

Do not go near the XJ40 rear end, it was plagued with expensive bearing failures in stock vehicles.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: XJ40_Font_sub.jpg (180.22 KB) 28 View(s)




Attachment: XJ40_frt_in_52.jpg (37.41 KB) 28 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-05-16 03:53 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-06-16 02:28 PM - Post#2664864    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Correction: The silver 4.0 from 87 on should have the suspension type shown just above and the later strut type upgrade is the S type retro styled car.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-06-16 03:53 PM - Post#2664880    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Guys, Just to put the fronts in order.
First the XJ up to 86 front. (and later V12.)
The revised 87 on front.

Cheers kiwi

Attachment: Early_Jag_front_simple_install.jpg (48.87 KB) 39 View(s)




Attachment: XJ40_Font_sub.jpg (180.22 KB) 27 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-06-16 03:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-06-16 04:13 PM - Post#2664884    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Ctd: And here you are looking at the later 2000's S type front which has a cast cross member and full struts so very unlikely to be easy to adapt.

Cheers Kiwi

Attachment: med_1479682681-2002_jag_front_end.jpg (64.68 KB) 30 View(s)




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 12-06-16 04:14 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bullrider97 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 6
bullrider97
Age: 38
Loc: Spokane, WA
Reg: 01-26-17
01-27-17 10:30 AM - Post#2673816    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Thanks for all of the info. I just wanted to ask, do either you or postalcop remember what you did to figure out caster? It looks like postalcop mounted flat to the old engine mounts using the plates....do you recall if you angled your mounts at all?

There was never a horse that couldn't be rode, there was never a cowboy that couldn't be throwed.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
01-27-17 04:51 PM - Post#2673875    
    In response to bullrider97

Hi Bullrider, From memory its just flat plate on level section of frame, for the road cars. You could always just tack it and check with old school caster and camber gauges that hub mount and use turn tables.
It would only matter if you did something like ran a lot of rake so that you went beyond the range of the adjustment in the top arm mounting shims. If you look at the early top arm inner mount it is mounted in the reverse (Inside) specifically so you can shim it for adjustment.

Nothing rings a bell about there being an issue there.

Cheers kiwi



48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 01-27-17 04:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bullrider97 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 6
bullrider97
Age: 38
Loc: Spokane, WA
Reg: 01-26-17
01-27-17 05:18 PM - Post#2673880    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Thanks for the help, your posts inspired me to get going on mine. I have the plates drilled already and the front end in place, just have to take measurements before I weld it. Thanks again.

There was never a horse that couldn't be rode, there was never a cowboy that couldn't be throwed.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4123
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
02-18-17 06:56 PM - Post#2677327    
    In response to bullrider97

Hi bull rider, you are welcome.

I heard recently from a Jag enthusiast that the later model front end's may have the pressed center sections filled with an expandable foam element of some kind. His assertion was that caused them to hold water and rust out.
He was referring to the 4.0 one that is too narrow to hold a V8 anyway.
I suspect if you wanted to use this type you would make up your own center member anyway.
Far more complex than the early bolt/weld in as they are ones.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 

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