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Username Post: EGR MADNESS        (Topic#304434)
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-02-13 08:53 PM - Post#2396353    

Hi all. I am still scratching my head on this one.
I put a 350 engine in my 90 k1500. It had a positive egr and federal emissions.
My old engine had a negative egr and california emissions.
I installed the ecm from a 90 350 with federal emissions to match the engine.
Here is the problem. I installed the egr from my old engine, I think it is not right.
What I need to know is how do I find out what would be the right egr valve and solenoid setup for what I have? and what are the OEM part numbers so I can order a new solenoid and valve/
1990 chevy k1500
federal emissions
5.7l SGI 350
Getrag Manual transmission.
I hope someone could help me on this because I am really scratching my head on this one. Thanks
GM fan FOREVER


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25580
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
11-03-13 08:06 AM - Post#2396443    
    In response to rockfangd

I'm confused now too. It sounds like you mixed the parts between engines/trucks, which could potentially be a problem.

There was likely no difference between the two engines themselves; I personally would have tried running the replacement engine with my original ECM and EGR parts.

Or am I not getting something here?

Richard
94 C2500LD / 94 C1500 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-03-13 10:09 AM - Post#2396469    
    In response to someotherguy

well I changed the ecm because the engine was different. I went from a 5.0 to a 5.7.
See the replacement engine had a positive egr and I dont know why.
But I reused my egr stuff from my old engine which was negative.
Why there is different egr setups is beyond me but I dont know what would be the right one to get.
Arent they different between auto and manaul transmissions also?
GM fan FOREVER


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25580
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
11-03-13 10:14 AM - Post#2396472    
    In response to rockfangd

In my opinion you want the match the ECM and EGR but that's getting kind of into the realm of how a particular tune is coded, which is beyond my expertise.

If you want to compare part #'s go to Rockauto's site and do some research. If you stick to the AC Delco #'s and pay close attention to GVWR and other details the picture should hopefully become a little clearer.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 94 C1500 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-03-13 05:30 PM - Post#2396621    
    In response to someotherguy

well, I can do that. I know they show both the bleed and pressure setup for the 5.7l.
Here is the reason why I am getting into this
I feel a shudder in second and third sometimes,
Seems to lack some power
on long hauls SES light will come on under moderate to heavy acceleration.
I am not sure if this could be EGR related but I know one thing. I am not sure if what I have installed is correct. The only thing that I dont know for sure on the entire engine.
GM fan FOREVER


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-06-13 07:55 AM - Post#2397298    
    In response to rockfangd

Ok let me ask this,
What would be the need for 2 different setups?
A positive and a negative.
I know a positive uses pressure to open the valve
a negative uses vacumn to open the valve
But arent the intake passages the same either way?
This egr thing has got me confused to say the least
GM fan FOREVER


 
Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 2987

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
11-07-13 03:30 PM - Post#2397610    
    In response to rockfangd

Different EGR systems are used to better fit different applications.

Positive back-pressure EGR systems are used on Large trucks.

Think about commercial use, like a “Dock truck”, “Box truck”, cab & chassis, where to get the truck up to speed the gas pedal is held to the floor as you wait for the truck to get up to speed. That is the condition were positive back-pressure EGR is NEEDED to protect the pistons.

Also:
On large trucks the AIR divertor valves on the A.I.R. (Air Injection Reaction) work in a way that would seem to be backwards of what you would think, if you only knew how they worked on cars and light duty trucks.

Keep the ECM AND the EGR with the vehicle, and swap the engine.

What vehicle did that engine with a positive back-pressure EGR valve come from?
For those of you that are wondering why you are not getting replies to your thread:

Did you give the model, year, engine, fuel system type, and transmission information?

If the it has been altered from stock let us know about that too.


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-07-13 10:04 PM - Post#2397716    
    In response to Chevytech

dont know. seller said 92 c1500 but I doubt it. I have never seen a 92 with a caat iron intake and a SGI engine code.
I swapped the ecm due to the larger engine, is the 305 computer ok to use on the 350. I thought the settings were different
GM fan FOREVER


 
Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 2987

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
11-08-13 02:21 PM - Post#2397852    
    In response to rockfangd

The old ECM that the vehicle was built with is what you should use.

The are plenty on 305CID trucks running down the road with the same ECM as 350CID trucks.

The PROM (chip) inside the ECM is calibrated to fit the vehicles exact equipment.

As long as you have 350 injectors in the TBI on the 350CID engine, it should run ok. Many people do not swap the prom when they change from a 305 to a 350. Do NOT try and use the PROM from the ECM that came with your mystery engine.
For those of you that are wondering why you are not getting replies to your thread:

Did you give the model, year, engine, fuel system type, and transmission information?

If the it has been altered from stock let us know about that too.


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-09-13 12:46 AM - Post#2397964    
    In response to Chevytech

I never got a ecm with the engine. I went and bought the used ecm from my local yard and it matched what I now have.
5.7l
Getrag manual
4x4
etc...
So your saying I should put thee ecm from the 305 back in and lose the current one? I didnt know the 350 would run at its full potential with a 305 ecm. I researched it before I did the engine swap and that is why I swapped the ecm.
thank you for the help
GM fan FOREVER


 
Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 2987

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
11-09-13 08:23 AM - Post#2397995    
    In response to rockfangd

You are not specific enough for me to know exactly what you are working with.

Without good information from you, all I can give is general information back.

So many of the post here on this board cannot be given a good answer to, because the posts / questions lack concise information.

What are the numbers on the ECMs you have?

The 1227747 ECM was used in 1990 C/K trucks on the 4.3, 5.0, and 5.7 liter engines.

Is that the number on the ECMs you have?

Some heavy duty truck applications in 1990 used a different ECM.

Do you have the four letter PROM broadcast codes? Will you post them?

The same ECM can be used in several vehicles that are very different.

It is the PROM (chip) in the ECM that is different between various vehicles, different engine sizes, gross vehicle weight, emissions systems, transmission, axle ratio...


I am saying, if you don't know the specifics and understand the variables of the PROM, and search for the correct vehicle to pull an ECM from, the odds of the Prom in the ECM you bought at the scrap yard being a better fit for your vehicle are extremely small.
For those of you that are wondering why you are not getting replies to your thread:

Did you give the model, year, engine, fuel system type, and transmission information?

If the it has been altered from stock let us know about that too.


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-09-13 11:42 AM - Post#2398030    
    In response to Chevytech

I thank you very much. I do believe the number you posted is the same on both. I will pull the ecm and post the info on both.
See the truck at the yard was basically identical to mine with the exception of it being 1 year newer
and it had the 5.7l rather than the 5.0.
It also had federal emissions which is what I converted mine to
GM fan FOREVER


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-10-13 03:14 PM - Post#2398364    
    In response to rockfangd

Ok guys this is what I am going to do. I found the truck at my local yard and found it had the negative setup like mine does so I am going to order a new oem egr valve from my vin number. This way I know the egr has been replaced. I am not too worried about the ecm because the truck runs beautiful. I just think the egr may be the wrong one, but either way I would know the new one is right for the application. I run such a hectic schedule and dont know when I could find the time to pull the ecm to get the info.
17087194 should be the part number of the original valve assembly. Ac delco number.
It is hard to believe how and why there are so many different valve numbers
GM fan FOREVER


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25580
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
11-10-13 04:00 PM - Post#2398377    
    In response to rockfangd

Custom tune the EGR out and install a blockoff plate?

Richard
94 C2500LD / 94 C1500 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-10-13 04:40 PM - Post#2398393    
    In response to someotherguy

thats the best idea yet. Ihave thought about it.
Now if the egr valve were wrong or the ecm was setup for positive and I have a negative setup wouldnt it throw any codes?
I am going to call my dealer tomorrow and pull both vins to see if the part numbers match for the egr valve
GM fan FOREVER


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-11-13 12:08 PM - Post#2398670    
    In response to rockfangd

Ok guys. I guess I have to figure something else out.
The donor truck had a positive setup 8600 GVW so I have a ECM that is not compatible with my egr setup.
I have such a headache on this.
I want to put my 90 ecm back in but I did away with the california emissions parts.
The 2 chips that go into the ecm, what do each of them do? I will have to try to get numbers for you guys so I can get some help. Thanks
GM fan FOREVER


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-11-13 11:00 PM - Post#2398825    
    In response to rockfangd

alright guys I have the original ecm from my truck. It is hard to make out the numbers on it but here it goes
16139401
95A50NK393313998
ASDN
The ecm in my truck is not readable.
I would definitely like to know what the 2 chips are for.
The larger recrtangle
and the small rectangle.
This ecm is setup for
1990 Chevr K1500
5.0l
Under 8600GVW
California Emissions
MG5 Getrag
Only 2 things that don't match my new setup is I now have a 5.7l and now have federal emissions
GM fan FOREVER


 
Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 2987

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
11-12-13 10:45 AM - Post#2398930    
    In response to rockfangd

One chip allows one ECM to be used is several different applications and it tells the ECM what engine, transmission, vehicle weight, axle ratio...

The other chip is the “CAL-PAK” which is going to allow the system to function and deliver fuel, in a limp home mode, when you fry the ECM, as you keep messing with your truck.

Don't try to run the system without these installed.

If you are going to mix and match parts you better do some more reading and get up to speed on ECMs.

Until you understand the basics, I don't think I can help you.

PROM code ASDN is a valid PROM code used in a 1227747 ECM.

There are multiple numbers on ECM labels, some of which can be very hard to trace down. When working on this old stuff, that is more then 20 years old, the information is most likely disappearing from many sources, if not already gone.
For those of you that are wondering why you are not getting replies to your thread:

Did you give the model, year, engine, fuel system type, and transmission information?

If the it has been altered from stock let us know about that too.


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-12-13 10:57 PM - Post#2399085    
    In response to Chevytech

I hooked up my scantool today and performed a road test. I got 1 code 33. map sensor malfunction.
I have to hook up my tech1a tomorrow though so I can see if I can test the egr system. My research is telling me that the ecm doesnt make the difference in the egr system(positive, negative) but it is in the solenoid setup. I dont know if that is right or not. I have been trying to find wiring diagrams that make sense. I only see one solenoid for the egr system and it has 2 pins
Pink which is 12v
and gray which is signal, but the diagrams I see show the gray wire tying into another solenoid before it goes to the ecm. I am thinking I am working too hard at this. I honestly think if there were to be an issue with the egr system I would have a code or at least driveability issues.
I also pulled the prom ID 6091 with current ecm.
All I really want to know at this point is that the egr system is doing what it is supposed to do with the current setup. Is there anything I can do to test the system,
I am very sorry guys If I am not being too much help.
I also wanted to add. I called 2 GM dealers and both told me there is no way to find out what egr valve should be installed. They cant even get a number. So that means if anyone replaced the valve at one time they may not have put the right valve in. What a headache this has been
GM fan FOREVER


Edited by rockfangd on 11-12-13 11:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4223

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
11-13-13 01:40 AM - Post#2399094    
    In response to rockfangd

This doesn't seem that hard.

Look up the EGR on Rock Auto's site for whatever application you intend to build the truck as - presumably a 1990 with federal emissions.

Go back to your donor truck and compare the engine side harness, or if it's still there and not cut, just buy the whole thing, it's not that hard to swap out other than some of the plugs at the rear of the motor.

Presumably if you used a combination of various used parts you may find some others are bad or weak and have to change them to get it going.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

1988 G20 van 5.7L - driver.
1993 3500 dually 5.7L NV4500 - tow truck
1991 G20 van - parts truck

Plus cars for swap and sale
&yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 2987

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
11-13-13 09:28 AM - Post#2399140    
    In response to rockfangd

I had a few free minute and this is what I found.

PROM Broadcast code ASDN,
Year 1988, ECM 1227747,
Engine L03 Disp 5.0,
Trans Manual MG5,
Scan id 9401
EPROM 16139497

PROM Broadcast code ARHT,
Year 1991, ECM 1227747,
Engine L05 Disp 5.7,
Trans manual MG5
Scan ID 6091
EPROM 16147464
For those of you that are wondering why you are not getting replies to your thread:

Did you give the model, year, engine, fuel system type, and transmission information?

If the it has been altered from stock let us know about that too.


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
11-13-13 11:43 AM - Post#2399162    
    In response to Chevytech

wow. Thank you. Now I just need to know how to decode the eprom number. I see no mention of the emissions in either. I do believe the ecms are the same but the chips are different.
GM fan FOREVER


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1038
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
02-21-14 10:51 PM - Post#2429153    
    In response to rockfangd

Update 2/21/14.
I finally ordered a egr valve. It took alot of thinking and help to figure it out. I found the egr valve numbers have been changed so many times that it is nearly impossible to figure anything out.
I found the egr valve that was installed was the correct number but when I tested the valve it held no vacumn at all. that is all good news.
I installed the new valve today. Now I dont seem to feel the shimmy on acceleration (especially in third).
I found also that both manual and auto trans valves have been superceded into one number.
The valve I ordered was AC-Delco 214-5073.
the original number was 17087194 which I figured pretty well all along. the valve I ordered is listed for my exact application. I want to thank all that were nice enough to take time to give me insight
GM fan FOREVER


 
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