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Username Post: 700R4 Missing Passing Gear?        (Topic#300833)
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-05-13 08:19 PM - Post#2369567    

Alright, this is a strange problem. Again, 1989 K1500 350 with 700R4 transmission.

I've properly adjusted the TV cable, and driving down the road it shifts great. Shifting up, shifting down, everything shifts smooth with no hesitations. However, I tried out passing gear on the interstate a few days ago, and when I got on the gas it tried to shift at WOT like its supposed to. However, instead of finding the passing gear, it slipped out of gear completely and just revved like it was in neutral. When I let off the gas pedal, it went back into the previous gear (not passing gear).

How do I get passing gear to work? I should add this transmission had been sitting with very little fluid in it for 4-5 years before I put this truck together. It seems like I remember reading some years ago about a Jeep overdrive transmission that did something similar after a new install, and it had to do with something about burping a valve or something (maybe it was the overdrive section). There was some trick to it, but I can't remember the specifics.

Anyway, my shift points all seem to be at the right spot and it TRIED for passing gear at the right time, so I have my doubts that the TV cable is the problem. Any suggestions? Do I just need to try it again and keep it floored until it finally kicks in? I let off the gas because I wasn't sure if I would mess anything up.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
Low priced Genuine GM Auto Parts
beagrizzly 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1648
beagrizzly
Age: 64
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
08-06-13 05:18 AM - Post#2369635    
    In response to Majoraslayer

what happens when you run wot from a dead stop? does it shift through all the gears at, or near red line?
griff

 
Allan In NE 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1583

Reg: 12-27-11
08-06-13 06:09 AM - Post#2369644    
    In response to Majoraslayer

There is no "passing gear"; just four speeds depending on engine load.

By going WOT, you're forcing the transmission into full throttle valve bias resulting in the truck dropping clear down to first or second gear (which feels like neutral at hiway speeds).

Good way to send a rod exiting out the block.

This isn't a 350 or 400 transmission; drive the truck normally and you'll find your so-called 'passing gear'.

Just my 2¢,

Allan

Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist


 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-06-13 12:12 PM - Post#2369735    
    In response to Allan In NE

So in other words, if you use WOT with this transmission, the transmission will shift to the wrong gear and the motor will blow up.

I think you're missing what I'm saying. I realize "passing gear" is not an extra gear for the transmission. "Passing gear" refers to the transmission downshifting to a lower gear at WOT so that more power from the engine is transferred to the wheels, giving an extra power boost to "pass" another vehicle.

Thats my point; just going down the road, not at WOT, it shifts up and down through all gears (including the lower gears) like it should. The mechanism, however it works, that causes it to downshift at WOT is responsible for "passing gear" (or technically 1st or 2nd). What I'm saying is that when I reach WOT and it shifts out of the higher gear to reach a lower gear, instead of going into gear the engine revs and I LOSE forward power because its not engaging the lower gear. This problem only happens at WOT, i.e. when its supposed to downshift to a lower gear at high speeds.

I had a 4l60E in a 1999 Blazer, which as I understand it is mechanically identical to the 700R4 except for the added electronic computer. When you floor it, its supposed to shift down for an extra burst of speed; my 700R4 is trying to shift down, but can't find the gear.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


Edited by Majoraslayer on 08-06-13 12:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-06-13 12:19 PM - Post#2369738    
    In response to beagrizzly

I've not tried WOT from a dead stop, but running from a dead stop at normal speed it shifts through all gears like it should with no hesitation between. It also downshifts smoothly when decelerating as it should. The only problem seems to be downshifting at WOT; it does try, but instead of engaging the lower gear it seems to go into neutral.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
454cid 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1185
454cid
Age: 41
Loc: West Michigan
Reg: 02-18-12
08-06-13 03:24 PM - Post#2369782    
    In response to Majoraslayer

Where did you get "passing gear" from? That's terminology that my grandmother would use, and has passed out of common usage..... at least for the majority of people online.

Speaking of my grandmother, when she had the transmission rebuilt or worked on, in some manner, it would act strangely at WOT. I think it was a TH200 or maybe a 200r4. The car would slow down. I think it might have been downshifting all the way to first, but it's been so long now, I don't really know.

Sounds like you definitely have something going on, but I don't know transmissions, and can't begin to even guess what's causing the transmission to not engage a lower gear.
99 K3500 RCLB


 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-06-13 03:31 PM - Post#2369786    
    In response to 454cid

It must be a regional thing; its still in common usage around where I live. Either way, I'm referring to the transmission's function of downshifting at WOT. "Passing gear" isn't quite as much of a mouthful.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25734
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
08-06-13 03:58 PM - Post#2369800    
    In response to Majoraslayer

If RPM's are flaring up when you jump on it, my gut reaction is that your TV cable is NOT correctly adjusted and you are on the very short path to burning up this transmission.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-06-13 04:59 PM - Post#2369814    
    In response to someotherguy

Maybe its only slightly out. I had one that was completely out, and it made itself very obvious.

I can't overstate how much I completely despise installing a 700R4. I'll try adjusting the cable again and see if that helps anything.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
Allan In NE 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1583

Reg: 12-27-11
08-07-13 04:19 AM - Post#2369926    
    In response to Majoraslayer

Do you have the CORRECT cable? Are you adjusting it correctly?

Another thought, some space-happy wrench turner hasn't put a shift kit in this thing have they? Another thought #2: Could this transmission have had an "additive" in it somewhere along the line?

On a 4L60, that cable adjustment is critical. I may be wrong here, but it just sounds to me as tho you're adjusting the cable to attain desired shift point speeds? Wrong method.

Just thinking out loud here,

Allan
Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist


 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-07-13 07:52 AM - Post#2369994    
    In response to Allan In NE

No, I've not been tweaking it at all. I adjusted it via the factory-prescribed method; press the D-button and slide the cable all the way back, then move the throttle to WOT to ratchet it out to the proper adjustment. It has the cable it came with. I don't know if a previous owner used any additive in it, but its unlikely to have much if any now because it was nearly empty when I installed it. I also don't know if it has a shift kit in it, but I highly doubt it; according to the sticker on the bellhousing its a GM Goodwrench rebuilt unit.

Thats not to say a shift kit isn't possible, but logic tells me that if the owner who bought the rebuilt transmission wanted a shift kit, they would have ordered one from a rebuild shop that would have installed it before they bought it.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
drummertom 
Member
Posts: 1852
drummertom
Age: 61
Loc: Durham NC
Reg: 09-03-06
08-07-13 03:56 PM - Post#2370117    
    In response to Majoraslayer

These guys are the expert on tv cables and they should have the proper way to adjust them 0n the websight. Link
www.picturetrail.com/drummertom

"Well my time went so quickly. I went lickety spickley out to my ol' 55"


 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-07-13 04:00 PM - Post#2370118    
    In response to Majoraslayer

Alright, I adjusted the TV cable all over again (pressed the button, pulled it all the way back, then pulled the throttle to WOT to ratchet it back out). Now shifts feel a lot more pronounced. At WOT it does downshift, but I've not tried it on the Interstate yet to see how it downshifts at high speeds (i.e. passing gear) because I want to be careful with it until I've made sure the cable is properly adjusted.

It seems like it shifts up quicker than it did before; I think it hits second gear at around 13 MPH (this is with size 265 tires, 3.42 ratio). I don't have a tach to see what my RPM is at shifting. Now it also seems to take a little longer to downshift when going uphill, but all shifts are a lot more pronounced.

So, do I need to adjust again, or did this actually improve it? Before, it shifted so smooth I couldn't always tell when it was shifting. How do I test to make sure the shift points are coming at the right time so I'm sure its adjusted correctly? Will it require a tach, and if so, what RPM's should the shift points be?

When I hit the gas at a dead stop, it will chirp the tires and take off fine (in response to an earlier post).
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25734
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
08-07-13 04:04 PM - Post#2370121    
    In response to Majoraslayer

"Before, it shifted so smooth I couldn't always tell when it was shifting" - cable was not adjusted properly, not even close. Hope you didn't operate it very much like that.

It sounds like you have it set much better now, but I'd await further advice from people that know more about it - like Allan.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-07-13 04:04 PM - Post#2370122    
    In response to drummertom

Thanks drummertom. I actually found an in-depth guide online explaining how the mechanism works. The actual factory-prescribed method of adjusting the cable is very straightfoward; press the button, pull the cable back all the way, then move the throttle to WOT. When you pull the throttle all the way, it SHOULD ratchet itself out the proper adjustment. Simple process, but somehow there seems to be a lot that can go wrong. These cables are a common problem with these transmissions.

There does seem to be some argument over if you should press the accelerator all the way to the floor, or manually move the throttle all the way open. I've been moving it at the throttle because the gas pedal isn't always 100% acurrate about opening to WOT.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-07-13 04:08 PM - Post#2370125    
    In response to someotherguy

It always found the correct gear, so I didn't realize it was out of adjustment. The truck isn't my daily driver, so it hasn't been driven a lot like that. Mostly I've taken it on short trips around town for testing purposes since I just got it together; its seen about 3 miles of Interstate to see how it would perform and thats it for highway travel.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
Allan In NE 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1583

Reg: 12-27-11
08-08-13 04:38 AM - Post#2370269    
    In response to Majoraslayer

When a 4L60 sits for a prolonged period of time, the oil will drain away from the throttle valve and it becomes almost "dry" and this causes headaches because that valve is sticking in it's bore.

Now that you have it working properly, the best thing for you to do is just use it normally without a bunch of WOT, cowboying of the truck.

After a week or two, this valve will "find it's operating center" and will operate smoothly and correctly again as it should.

Allan
Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist


 
beagrizzly 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1648
beagrizzly
Age: 64
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
08-08-13 09:15 PM - Post#2370561    
    In response to Majoraslayer

my question about shifting at wot was for informational purposes. it's entirely possible that is has some wear, and third gear is slipping. when you hit "passing gear" it's shifting into third, and the trans can't hold the torque so it's slipping. if that is the case, your clutches may be burned up.
my suburban with a 4L60E lost third gear pulling a 34' camp trailer. it did the exact same thing. it held fine during normal driving, but go wot, and it slipped like it wasn't even there.

 
Majoraslayer 
Member
Posts: 285
Majoraslayer
Age: 26
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 02-22-04
08-08-13 09:38 PM - Post#2370567    
    In response to beagrizzly

I've not been able to do any further test driving since my tail lights have been screwed up. Now that I have my brake lights working and the correct sides blinking with turn signals, I don't have any tail lights when I turn on the headlights. But, I'm pursuing that in another topic and I digress.

What I really need to know is, whats the best way to tell when I have the cable adjusted correctly? The last time I drove the truck before swapping the frame, motor, and transmission I was running a 2WD TH400. So, I don't even know exactly how this transmission is SUPPOSED to feel since I've never ran it before installing it. Its been about a year since I had my later model Blazer with the 4L60E, and it was behind a 4.3 Vortec so it may have felt completely different anyway.
My Chevys (I.E. What I'm Asking About)
------------------------- -------------
-1988/1989 C/K1500 5.7L w/700R4 ('88 C Body, '89 K Everything Else)
-1978 Camaro 5.7L w/TH350, 492 Heads & 280 Cam
-2003 Trailblazer EXT 4.2L I6, Auto, 4x4


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25734
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
08-08-13 11:13 PM - Post#2370578    
    In response to Majoraslayer

Hooking up a gauge - http://www.tvmadeez.com/press_gauge/pressgaug e.htm...

I'll try to dig up the expected pressures on a stock trans though I believe Allan or transman may have posted them before.

OK, did a little hunting and here's a pretty good thread on 67-72 including a chart - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?...

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


Edited by someotherguy on 08-09-13 12:40 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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