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Username Post: Daily Driver Issues        (Topic#291840)
jel1957 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Sugar Land, Texas
Reg: 01-01-04
01-08-13 10:50 AM - Post#2305178    

My 57 210 is my daily driver. Over the past several months I have had an issue with fouling #8 plug that seems tied to using about a quart of oil every 1000 miles. No visible smoke out of the tail pipe, nor huge puddles - just a guncked up plug about every 2 weeks. I am assuming that this is a valve seal to suck this much oil down. Any throughts or comments - also, any recommendations for a shop in the Houston area to impart a fix (I simply do not have the time).

 
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rdobbs 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 75

Age: 71
Loc: Springfield, Tn 37172
Reg: 07-13-09
01-08-13 11:10 AM - Post#2305182    
    In response to jel1957

Don't know of shops in your area, but sounds
like you are ready for an over-haul.

 
CharlieC 
Senior Member
Posts: 1790
CharlieC
Loc: Flower Mound, TX,
Reg: 03-27-02
01-08-13 11:15 AM - Post#2305183    
    In response to jel1957

Not a fix for the problem, but a quick solution to running on 7 cylinders. Most auto parts stores sell an "anti-fouler" I guess you'd call it. Goes in between the plug and the head and keeps the plug from fouling. Used them on a truck I had many moons ago.

Charlie
"Yeah, I'm just going to clean it up and make it a driver." May 2002

'57 BelAir Conv. GMPP LSX/L92-440 T-56 (almost...)
'74 K5 Blazer 4x4
'09 Avalanche LTZ


 
acardon 
Senior Member
Posts: 9871
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
01-08-13 11:47 AM - Post#2305196    
    In response to CharlieC

Check for a plugged road draft tube. Valve seals can be changed without pulling the heads, if that's the problem. Presurize the cylinder and use a lever made for compressing the spring. How many miles on the engine?
Contact "Rick L" for a shop near Houston.
Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Lead sled 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1655
Lead sled
Age: 54
Loc: Walton,NY.
Reg: 11-04-09
01-08-13 04:13 PM - Post#2305262    
    In response to CharlieC

I've used those "no fouls" too Charlie. Also many moons ago (30yrs. ago)on a Mopar I had....wounder if they're still made????
They do work,til you get the problem fixed. PROBABLLY VALVE SEALS.
Late yr model (Dec. 51 BelAir/ 52 trim), with a basically stock 67 Camaro SS350/295hp Turbo Fire Edelbrock 1405, Saginaw 4spd/355 geared 55/6 Chevy rear.2,1st place,and 1 top five award trophies so far
http://www.picturetrail.com/bris51deluxe


 
CharlieC 
Senior Member
Posts: 1790
CharlieC
Loc: Flower Mound, TX,
Reg: 03-27-02
01-08-13 05:28 PM - Post#2305288    
    In response to Lead sled

  • Quote:
wounder if they're still made????



They are, I saw some at O'Reilly's about 6 months ago.

Charlie
"Yeah, I'm just going to clean it up and make it a driver." May 2002

'57 BelAir Conv. GMPP LSX/L92-440 T-56 (almost...)
'74 K5 Blazer 4x4
'09 Avalanche LTZ


 
chevybow 
Member
Posts: 894
chevybow
Loc: Monroe Ga. Red Neck Capi...
Reg: 09-03-04
01-08-13 05:42 PM - Post#2305296    
    In response to jel1957

Any thought's of a hotter spark plug.....Donny

 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25770

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
01-08-13 06:39 PM - Post#2305316    
    In response to acardon

I don't think I know of a shop that would attempt anything with the engine in the car.

Remember this, there are no true valve stem seals on most small block engines. All they have is an o-ring to prevent oil that's on the valve spring retainer from dripping down the valve stem. It seals the retainer, not the valve guide.

So you probably need a valve job. Might even need rings and a hone or bore job.

The anti-foulers are a good stop gap when you have a serious leak.

 
56sedandelivery 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3397

Age: 63
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
01-08-13 06:46 PM - Post#2305321    
    In response to Rick_L

Valve guides or stem seals like already mentioned, or possibly worn/broken ring(s) in that one cylinder. Could also be a bad intake gasket allowing oil to enter that cylinder through the intake runner. Do a dry-wet compression test, and a leakdown test if you have that equipment available to you; that'll give you a good idea of the engines' condition overall, and that cylinder in particular. Butch/56sedandelivery.



 
jel1957 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Sugar Land, Texas
Reg: 01-01-04
01-08-13 09:09 PM - Post#2305364    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

Things got a little worse. When I changed plugs last night, I noticed a header bolt that was looses and tightened it. This morning I drove it and heard it spitting like an exhaust leak. Bought gaskets and was going to change the header gaskets (at the head) and then noticed that the bolt closest to the firewall was loose - would not tighten - it was stripped. This motor was gone through back in 2005 and I have put about 40K on it. I thought I could heli-coil it as a quick fix but the tap does not fit through the header flange and the work space is way too tight. Looks like the head will need to be pulled - which I dread.

Edited by jel1957 on 01-08-13 09:10 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
62sedan 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3706
62sedan
Age: 63
Loc: Above the dirt
Reg: 08-12-02
01-09-13 12:26 PM - Post#2305523    
    In response to jel1957

  • Quote:
I thought I could heli-coil it as a quick fix but the tap does not fit through the header flange and the work space is way too tight.



Couldn't you use a drill to enlarge the hole in the header flange so you can make access for the tap to enter the head? If no room for a standard handheld drill, maybe use one with a 90º attachment to gain additional room. Just a thought and it would save having to pull the head to insert a heli-coil.
Chuck






 
WagonMan 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1445
WagonMan
Age: 66
Loc: SW Kansas
Reg: 10-26-04
01-09-13 01:44 PM - Post#2305547    
    In response to jel1957

You could also check to see if the stripped bolt was long enough to reach the full threaded depth. Just might be able to use a longer bot to buy some time.
Charles

57 210 4dr. Wagon(bought '82)
-350/700r4 Mild Custom
56 BA 4dr. ht.(bought '98)
-265/TH350 Mostly Stock
29 Ford Sedan(bought '75)
-4.3L/TH350(in progress)
53 Chevy 3100 (bought '96)
-250 I6/TH350


 
6-bangertim 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2108

Age: 57
Loc: El Cajon, Calif.
Reg: 11-30-08
01-09-13 01:49 PM - Post#2305551    
    In response to jel1957

The bolt MIGHT cinch up with a short length of single-strand telephone wire in the hole. It could get you by while you do a compression and leak-down tests.I'm thinking that the valve guides were knurled and one got sloppy. Guide liners are a better fix for the money.

Your best for installing a HELICOIL would be to pull the head. Borrow a spring compressor and pop the valves out - oil or fluffy deposits on the backsides will confirm a guide issue.

Good Luck, Tim
Too Poor to Restore...My Nifty 150!
Proud owner of MISS NOVEMBER - 2011 Tri-Five Calender


 
jel1957 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Sugar Land, Texas
Reg: 01-01-04
01-09-13 02:53 PM - Post#2305567    
    In response to 6-bangertim

i had a long stud that I tried to put in last night, with a standard hex nut and lock washer (dang near standing on my head to spin the nut and when it started to tighten up - it just pull - so the threads are gone all the way into the head. These are standard heads that have been worked over by an old speed shop in Dallas when I lived there. I am mulling buying a new set of heads and having them ready to go so that this is one loing day in the driveway, rather then sending a head off to be reworked. My mental dilemna is if it is not a bad guide or seal and it turns out to be a problem with the lower end - then I will be hosed.



 
Algoma56 
Contributor
Posts: 636

Loc: Sault Ste. Marie, ON, Can...
Reg: 03-14-05
01-10-13 02:10 PM - Post#2305867    
    In response to jel1957

Might not be what you want to hear, but I have had good luck buying good used-up cars for good running small blocks. You might get a 305, not a 350 or your preference of engine, but you can be swapped out in a day.
I had 2 cars given to me, that we used the engines for another couple of years-as daily drivers.
Take the scrap car for a test drive, do a compression check, change out and leaking gaskets, and go.
Then you'll have time to really check out the engine you have.

 
6-bangertim 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2108

Age: 57
Loc: El Cajon, Calif.
Reg: 11-30-08
01-11-13 02:19 PM - Post#2306253    
    In response to jel1957

It might be time to start shopping for a CHEAP running 305 on CL or from a yard you can swap out over a weekend with a buddy. A F.I. engine would be a good bet, as they seem to show less bore wear. Run it for a few months while you square away your good mill, then resell - maybe for a profit!

Good Luck, Tim
Too Poor to Restore...My Nifty 150!
Proud owner of MISS NOVEMBER - 2011 Tri-Five Calender


 
jel1957 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Sugar Land, Texas
Reg: 01-01-04
01-11-13 03:16 PM - Post#2306273    
    In response to 6-bangertim

About to bite the bullet and buy a set of aluminum heads (Summit). In for a penny, in for a pound. Gotta pull the head, might as well do it right.

I have an old L79 hydraulic camshaft in this (0.447/0.447) - thought about putting 1.6 rockers on it to possibly give it a little more umph. Any thoughts?

Thanks for the comments and the moral support

 
6-bangertim 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2108

Age: 57
Loc: El Cajon, Calif.
Reg: 11-30-08
01-12-13 02:02 AM - Post#2306425    
    In response to jel1957

I would still do a LEAK-DOWN TEST before pulling the heads - just to verify the rings are still holding up OK. I think the limit is around 10% or more for a street mill, but some racers will tear down a engine with more than 5-6% leak-down from the rings. PM "Rick L." - he might know of a shop that can do the test for you locally.

TEST FIRST, then plan from there...

Take Care. Tim
Too Poor to Restore...My Nifty 150!
Proud owner of MISS NOVEMBER - 2011 Tri-Five Calender


 
triplefive 
Contributor
Posts: 695
triplefive
Loc: Brisbane Australia
Reg: 07-08-11
01-12-13 04:49 AM - Post#2306434    
    In response to 6-bangertim

I got a 307 that had just been rebuilt off a friend once . Drove it for quite a while and it produced a bit of smoke at times but didn't foul any plugs. Turned out the heads were put together without ANY seals at all, so I wouldn't expect a valve seal to do what you're describing.

Do a compression test dry, then with a teaspoon of 90 grade in the cylinder. If it improves a great deal, it points to rings.

And there's nothing wrong with the O ring type seals, as long as you use an oil cap with them. Many say they're better, as positive type seals leave the stems without any lube at all.

Many drag racers leave the seals off the exhaust valves.
Mike.
Mike.

Procrastination; the one thing I never put off until tomorrow.


 
CharlieC 
Senior Member
Posts: 1790
CharlieC
Loc: Flower Mound, TX,
Reg: 03-27-02
01-12-13 09:00 AM - Post#2306478    
    In response to jel1957

It would certainly be a good time to do an upgrade, if you're going to pull the head(s)...

Make sure the cam profile, head studs, pushrod length and different ratio rockers are all compatible with one another before you start.

  • Quote:
I wouldn't expect a valve seal to do what you're describing.




I have to kind of disagree here as the truck I mentioned earlier I was using the anti-fouler on was ultimately fixed with a valve seal change. Just my experience...

Charlie
"Yeah, I'm just going to clean it up and make it a driver." May 2002

'57 BelAir Conv. GMPP LSX/L92-440 T-56 (almost...)
'74 K5 Blazer 4x4
'09 Avalanche LTZ


 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4928
bobb
Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
01-14-13 11:16 PM - Post#2307309    
    In response to jel1957

i would do a compression check first to get an idea of whats to come. it may check out good and still have a broken ring. the top ring handles the compression the others handle the oil. so i am told. i would then check the valve guides. (does it smoke when cold started or when pulling away from a stop?) if its a valve guide you may be able to stick an umbrella seal in there to help for now. an intake manifold gasket leak will be a bit more tricky to find. im thinking stick a vacum cleaner onto a valve cover. plug the other cover and exhaust pipes and see if it pulls smoke through the carb. i would not recomend using an old cam. cams are cheap enough and the newer profiles are an upgrade.
70 L camino 350 all forged,174 baby blower, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


Edited by bobb on 01-14-13 11:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
triplefive 
Contributor
Posts: 695
triplefive
Loc: Brisbane Australia
Reg: 07-08-11
01-15-13 12:58 AM - Post#2307317    
    In response to bobb

I've just had another thought if you are looking at buying heads.

You haven't said what size motor this is, unless I've missed it (in which case, my wife would tell me to 'have a girl look').

If you get heads with 2.02 valves, and you don't have a 4 inch bore, I got a feeling there might be some cylinder wall to valve clearance issues.

Someone who knows better than I do might clarify?????

Also depending on engine size, what chamber size are the heads? You don't want to lose a heap of compression.

And going to 1.6 rockers sounds like a recipe for complications and headaches. Just my $00.02 worth.

Mike.
Mike.

Procrastination; the one thing I never put off until tomorrow.


 
jel1957 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Sugar Land, Texas
Reg: 01-01-04
01-15-13 05:47 PM - Post#2307554    
    In response to triplefive

Thanks for the comments. I have a 0.040 over 350. I got 62 cc chambers on these heads to boost compression a little. The old heads were 882 castings with 2.02 intake valves.

The camshaft is the Crane remake of the L79 (350 HP/327 ci) with 0.447/0.447 lift.

 
jel1957 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Sugar Land, Texas
Reg: 01-01-04
01-22-13 07:43 PM - Post#2309713    
    In response to jel1957

Fix one problem, and another appears:

The old heads were pulled - appears to be burnt valves on #6 and #8 (valves receded in seat). New heads on (Summit 162109 angle plug heads) along with 1.6 rockers - runs great - much better throttle response for sure.

New problem - header lead (possibly cracked weld) on the # 3/#5 connection. Headers are at least 20 year old Hooker Long Tubes


 
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