nicke
Contributor
Posts: 643
Age: 29
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Reg: 01-06-12
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08-08-12 03:18 PM - Post#2257242
65 SS Convert 425hp
Very beautiful car... but noticed a few things. Please correct me if I am wrong.
1) Wood wheel horn cap is for a 64, not 65
2) Front door panels missing upper chrome trim
3) Taillights not ordered correctly. Reverse lights should be in the center. (They are on the inside)
Am I crazy or correct?
-Nick
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 427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12320
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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08-08-12 05:50 PM - Post#2257292
In response to nicke
Beautiful, but why...
Wrong rear SS trim - should be an Argent Silver SS trim, not black
Chrome valve covers with that 425 decal.
No power steering hose retainer.
Especially disturbing:
Wrong rivets holding the VIN tag in the door jamb and it doesn't look like the original tag.
At least the 396 flags are in the correct location and the 02D makes it an early 396 car.
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 SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1513
Reg: 05-08-03
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08-08-12 07:05 PM - Post#2257310
In response to 427SS65
Nick,
That's a beautiful car...
It figures that Tom would notice that it has the non-black SS rear trim. What's with the chrome air cleaner & rocker covers?
Also, What the heck is with the left-handed threads on the fuel filter? The shifter boot is goofy looking too and I'll bet the wood steering wheel came from Year One... The red-line tires should be 8.25x14" (White sidewalls would've been an extra $13.45  )
Tom, you forgot the ralleye wheels.
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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dadstoy
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1062
Age: 59
Loc: Lewisburg Ohio
Reg: 04-01-07
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08-08-12 07:37 PM - Post#2257326
In response to SS_in_Seattle
No bumper guards on the front. Rear ones installed wrong.
Nice car but to many things not correct. That VIN tag is a big NO NO.
Larry.
1965 Impala convertible 396
1965 Impala 9 pass wagon 283
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427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12320
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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08-08-12 08:39 PM - Post#2257352
In response to SS_in_Seattle
Sorry, Greg. After seeing all that, I passed out.
Side story: When I was in the Army in early 1966, I knew a guy from Chicago who had a triple black 65SS with a 400hp/409. That was the first time I had ever seen a 7K tach and I mentioned that he shouldn't have painted his rear trim since I thought it looked odd (at the time). That's when he told me that's the way the black cars come. Believe it or not, just today I made contact with him, still living in Chicago, and he asked me if I still had my 65! I'll get some pictures of it if he still has any.
I would like to see the frame numbers. Betcha they don't match what's in the door jamb. It does look like the cowl tag is original.
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427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12320
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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08-08-12 09:43 PM - Post#2257377
In response to 427SS65
Also the rear bumper guards...
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1513
Reg: 05-08-03
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08-08-12 10:23 PM - Post#2257387
In response to 427SS65
Here's one I missed the first time around...
After the interior pictures, count down... #3 is the Super Sport on the right fender, scroll down to picture 7 and you see a shot of the left front ralleye wheel... It looks like the valance under the front bumper has been hit. The picture before the Super Sport script is the right side of the front bumper and the gap is much different.
Greg
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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 ed72073
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 431
Age: 39
Loc: Chicago
Reg: 12-08-10
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08-09-12 05:55 AM - Post#2257434
In response to nicke
This car in the photos does look nice. He does not list the car as a L78 car only a 396/425. Anyone can change stickers or add chrome valve covers but why not show the documentation that is available.
I am sure with my car as well as others most people will find something not perfect or correct or to their liking. Yes this car has something wrong with it or missing items but still looks nice in the photos. If someone built this car and not just slapped it together I am sure there is more money in the car then the highest bid it will receive on ebay. Also the car is listed by a dealer that has more cars one is a Baldwin Motion Camaro, I bet many will find fault with that car.
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 ss3964spd
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3063
Loc: Fairfax, Va
Reg: 12-21-00
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08-09-12 07:50 AM - Post#2257472
In response to ed72073
He does not list the car as a L78 car only a 396/425.
But he does say "numbers matching" - which suggests to an unsuspecting buyer that it is an L78 car - what with the engine being dressed out like an L78 - except for the chrome bits.
I am sure with my car as well as others most people will find something not perfect or correct or to their liking.
Very true, is why I don't post many pics of mine on here.  It does looks fairly nice, I actually like the red lines and flat capped ralley's - though neither were RPO's on B bodies in 65 (or 66), but lots of bits just don't seem to fit right on that car.
Dan
Dan
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent. My ability to access it is not.
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1513
Reg: 05-08-03
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08-09-12 09:16 AM - Post#2257497
In response to nicke
I would've made a considerable offer on this car if it was real, partly because I'd love to have a '65 convertible (to go with my '66, lol), and partly because Warren, who lives kinda close to me has TWO L78's... a hard top and a convertible, and they're not even his nicest or rarest! However...
One of these window stickers is for my car, and one of these "window stickers" is for the car advertised on ebay. I cut out some important parts on my window sticker... stuff this guy with the car on ebay would love to know, like the RPO codes. This dude should've drilled out the centers of those pop rivets on his VIN tag like Tom pointed out.
You know, it's one thing to advertise a car for sale with a bunch of repop, or even fabricated [fake] parts & say... "Uh, I don't know for sure if it's a real L78 convertible, I'm just selling it the way I bought it", it's another thing all together to FABRICATE documentation.
If my Mom could've had a convertible for 80 bucks more, I think she would have gone for it.
I'll let you guys tear this one apart...
Guys like this really tick me off.
Good eye Nick
Greg
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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bajones238
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 217
Loc: Georgia
Reg: 06-19-11
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08-09-12 09:40 AM - Post#2257509
In response to SS_in_Seattle
"Multiple" radio system? Maybe one AM radio, and one FM.
1965 Impala SS 327/M20
1965 Chevelle SS 327/M20
VCCA #47487
AACA #446449 |
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1513
Reg: 05-08-03
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08-09-12 09:58 AM - Post#2257515
In response to bajones238
Uhh,
I have multiple radio systems, one [factory] AM and one Secret Radio FM. AND I have a multiplex unit like this guy added to this convertible
Secret Audio Radio
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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bajones238
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 217
Loc: Georgia
Reg: 06-19-11
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08-09-12 10:00 AM - Post#2257517
In response to SS_in_Seattle
Well, that explains it then.
1965 Impala SS 327/M20
1965 Chevelle SS 327/M20
VCCA #47487
AACA #446449 |
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nicke
Contributor
Posts: 643
Age: 29
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Reg: 01-06-12
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08-09-12 10:19 AM - Post#2257525
In response to SS_in_Seattle
I totally agree Greg. Its one thing to not be sure, but to actually make a vin or cowl tag swap for the purpose of making a car something it's not, to artificially increase the value, really gets to me. I'm not saying that is what is being done with this car, but I really don't like the idea of that.
Here is an article where a guy tries to fake a 70' Ls-6 Chevelle, and gets in big trouble.
Again, this 65 convert is gorgeous, and even with the imperfections it would be a blast to own. Is it legit? Probably not.
I hope that the new owner rips the decal off the air cleaner, and replaces the 396 fender emblems with 283 emblems.... and never even whispers "L-78" to anyone....
-Nick
Edited by nicke on 08-09-12 10:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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fsc66
Forum Newbie
Posts: 74
Loc:
Reg: 05-05-12
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08-10-12 05:15 AM - Post#2257791
In response to nicke
Well, that top window sticker is fake and completely wrong, Greg, would like a copy of yours for our data base if you don't mind.
Paul
fsc66@yahoo.com
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427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12320
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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08-10-12 06:48 AM - Post#2257815
In response to fsc66
Paul, you can right click on it and save it to your computer.
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fire259
Senior Member
Posts: 291
Loc: No. White Plains, NY 10...
Reg: 06-20-01
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08-10-12 02:55 PM - Post#2257920
In response to nicke
Nick,
A number of years ago, I got a phone call from a gentleman in New Jersey that had just taken in a car that looked "EXACTLY" like this one on consignment at his classic car dealership. He had contacted the restorer that I used for the paint and bodywork on my '65 L78 convertible, and had gotten my name and phone number from him as he was located close by. He asked me what I thought the car was worth. I stated that I was only a hobbyist and that I thought a factory L78 car (certainly a convertible)was quite valuable providing it was factory correct, had some if not all documentation and was in relatively pristine condition. He said that he had no documentation with this car. We had a short conversation about it and said goodbye. He listed this car on his web-site "WWW.highmarques.com" for a few years. I just checked his site and the car is marked sold. I viewed the pictures several times on his site and uncovered several items under the hood that were not correct. As we all know, there are a number of pieces that are "one-year-only" for '65 L78 cars. I believe it was listed on Craigslist at least once for somewhere in the area of $90K. If you pay a lot, there should be proof that it is worth a lot. John
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1513
Reg: 05-08-03
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08-10-12 03:28 PM - Post#2257927
In response to fire259
Nifty Link To DataTags.Com
...It's a good thing they don't spell MultiPlex Radio on the trim tag
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1513
Reg: 05-08-03
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08-10-12 03:34 PM - Post#2257929
In response to fsc66
Paul,
I already answered that call from the magazine... I believe you got a more thorough copy of my window sticker, everything but the VIN.
Check your email from thewizardofwelding
Greg
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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WarrenL
Contributor
Posts: 754
Loc: Hebron, ME
Reg: 11-17-04
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08-10-12 07:40 PM - Post#2257989
In response to SS_in_Seattle
Greg, is your L78 a 2Q car? I'd love to see a picture of the tag if you'd feel comfortable sending it (via email or PM).
Warren
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1513
Reg: 05-08-03
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08-10-12 08:19 PM - Post#2257996
In response to WarrenL
Warren,
W 2QR 3C
What the heck is a 2Q?
Greg
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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WarrenL
Contributor
Posts: 754
Loc: Hebron, ME
Reg: 11-17-04
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08-10-12 09:01 PM - Post#2258001
In response to SS_in_Seattle
I believe 2Q has something to do with M21. When was the car built? I don't have any pics of 65 LOS tags with the 2Q code, yours would be the first.
Warren
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Axelrod
Senior Member
Posts: 876
Reg: 02-23-04
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08-12-12 09:15 AM - Post#2258419
In response to fire259
Reading this thread, you guys sound more anal than a bunch of NCRS judges, (being the owner of a classic Corvette I can say that, lol). Actually, it's nice to see other model enthusiasts as devoted to preservation and correctness, as some classic Vette owners are. Anyway, I figured I'd chime in since I like '65 Impalas.
The car in question on this thread, VIN 166675D161806, was sold at the 2007 Barrett Jackson Palm Beach auction Lot 415, for $53,900...which included the buyer's commission. I think that is pretty strong money for an old Impala.
Here's another black '65 convertable currently for sale, not an SS tho': www.frankmanmotorsinc.com
It has a 'resale' red interior, (I like the white better) and a 409. A full frame off restoration and the asking price on the dealer web site is $43,800. It's also listed on Ebay with a 'buy-it-now' price of $48,995 and currently has 2 bids on it, topping out at $25,100.
Quite a difference in appearance between the two VIN tags. Note the rosette rivits.
I don't know the market on these cars but I've always liked them. My brother had a new black '65 SS hardtop with a small block. As a kid, I can remember that rear speaker and thinking how cool it was. Assuming all things equal, which of the two cars would be worth more, the 409 or the SS 396? I'd guess the SS because of the 396/425.
I like the SS, with it's white interior and the 425hp 396 over the black/red 409. Awesome engine, and basically the same as I had in my '69 396/375 Chevelle SS, which was rated lower for insurance purposes. I don't like the looks of the VIN, or the potentially sketchy history. I do know you couldn't clone one as nice as this one appears to be for the same money, assuming you are starting from scratch. A nicely done clone can still bring strong money. If you concerned about 'investment' qualities, a real documented car is always better, IMHO.
disclaimer:I have no way of knowing whether the car in question is authentic, or not.
I'm interested in reading others responses.
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427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12320
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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08-12-12 10:11 AM - Post#2258439
In response to Axelrod
I think the VIN tag is correct. There are three inspector's stamps on it. The St. Louis plant did not stamp there, but rather on the cowl tag.
White interior is only available on the SS, as I remember.
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WarrenL
Contributor
Posts: 754
Loc: Hebron, ME
Reg: 11-17-04
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08-12-12 11:24 AM - Post#2258457
In response to 427SS65
That's the dealer delivery date. 05 5 or May 1965.
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1513
Reg: 05-08-03
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08-12-12 12:05 PM - Post#2258469
In response to Axelrod
If you compare the two VIN tags, the font is the clincher, the convertible with the fake L78 motor has distinctively different font than the recent black car.
As far as comparing a 409 to a 396/425, Chevy built 2828 Full Size cars with the 409 and they built 1838 Full Size cars with the 396/425. I love the 409, but I'll take the L78.
The one thing about the convertible on ebay that really gets my goat is the fact that the guy is advertising undeniably fake documentation as the real McCoy. I can appreciate the crafstmanship in a well-restored car, but I personally think that clones and tribute cars cheapen the real thing
Greg
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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Richard Martin
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4411
Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
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08-12-12 12:30 PM - Post#2258477
In response to SS_in_Seattle
If you compare the two VIN tags, the font is the clincher, the convertible with the fake L78 motor has distinctively different font than the recent black car.
As far as comparing a 409 to a 396/425, Chevy built 2828 Full Size cars with the 409 and they built 1838 Full Size cars with the 396/425. I love the 409, but I'll take the L78.
Greg
Comparing the '65 hi-perf 409 (L31) to the '65 hi-perf 396 (L78). Chevrolet built 742 L31 409 cars compared to 1838 '65s with the L78 396.
Richard
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WarrenL
Contributor
Posts: 754
Loc: Hebron, ME
Reg: 11-17-04
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08-12-12 02:55 PM - Post#2258531
In response to SS_in_Seattle
Just an fyi, that L78 car was built at Doraville and should have different style font(s) on the vin tag for the actual vin number.
Now the cowl tag on the other hand, is completely wrong. lol
Do you know what other docs he has for the car? I've been trying to get him to send me pics of them and the engine pad.
Warren
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Axelrod
Senior Member
Posts: 876
Reg: 02-23-04
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08-12-12 03:17 PM - Post#2258538
In response to Richard Martin
If you compare the two VIN tags, the font is the clincher, the convertible with the fake L78 motor has distinctively different font than the recent (409) black/red car.
As far as comparing a 409 to a 396/425, Chevy built 2828 Full Size cars with the 409 and they built 1838 Full Size cars with the 396/425. I love the 409, but I'll take the L78.
Greg
Comparing the '65 hi-perf 409 (L31) to the '65 hi-perf 396 (L78). Chevrolet built 742 L31 409 cars compared to 1838 '65s with the L78 396.
Richard
...and to break it down even further; how many of the L31 409 cars were convertibles vs how many of the L78 396 cars were also built as convertibles?
Greg are you saying the L78 396 motor is a 'fake' as in dressed to look authentic but is not? How do you know, as no block stamping numbers were indicated in the Ebay ad?
If it's just a run of mill big block dressed to look like an L78, the car is much less desirable, whether cloned or not.
Just to clear up any confusion, the VIN I posted above is from the black/red 409.
Here is the VIN from the black/white SS that started the thread:
As has been pointed out, there is a difference in the fonts and spacing but the obvious diffence is the rivets. Rosette rivets were original but NOS rosettes can still be found, and reproductions are being produced. That said, why would a restorer use an ordinary rivet to reattach a VIN and try to pass it as original? More to the story there.
Since the Impala VIN's were riveted to the door, how were VIN transfer's treated back in the day in a collision repair? What if one were transferred to the replacement door with ordinary rivets,....and then fast forward 40+ years. And of course, with a restoration, a door might be damaged beyond reasonable repair, necessitating a transfer of the VIN to a donor door. Nowadays, a door frame could be cut, grafted to the new door, and metal finished both sides, to preserve the original rivets, or it could be drilled and re-rivited using the correct rivets. As always, it's buyer beware, especially with the high dollar, low number, rare option cars to determine true authenticity.
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Richard Martin
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4411
Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
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08-12-12 03:28 PM - Post#2258544
In response to Axelrod
"and to break it down further; how many of the L31 409 cars were convertibles...."
As far as I know that record doesn't exist. The engine plant records only show the # of a specific engine(s) shipped to assembly plants...not what series or body style a particular engine was installed in.
Richard
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