Chopperdoc
Contributor
Posts: 109
Age: 52
Loc: Huntsville, AL
Reg: 07-31-12
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08-02-12 08:01 PM - Post#2255158
Been trying to get the Belair running. It has been converted to 12 volts two owners ago. It will start when push started. Got the battery charging overnight. Can anyone point me toward a wiring diagram / troubleshooting table?
Going to buy a shop manual but want to mess with it tomorrow.
1954 Belair 2 Door
“Some people wake up, stretch and enjoy Freedom, Some people wake up, stretch and defend it”
"For those who are willing to fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"
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 2blu52
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13075
Age: 79
Loc: Montana
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08-03-12 06:25 AM - Post#2255271
In response to Chopperdoc
Go here:http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/ sthis will help until you get your very own shop manual. The printed copy is best, thrown in the trunk on trips it is always there. 
"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"
THOMAS JEFFERSON |
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 davidchristopher
"4th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1660
Age: 42
Loc: Saint George, Ontario, Ca...
Reg: 08-02-09
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08-03-12 09:53 AM - Post#2255319
In response to 2blu52
Chopperdoc- I'm wiring my '51 from scratch... I can probably help you get on your feet there. Let's start out with...
Is this a stock car? What year is it? (edit: It's a 54)
Original motor?
You say it starts if you bump it - what does it do when you turn the key/hit the button?
Do you have a multimeter?
1951 Chevrolet Styleline Special. (350 4 Muncie '55 Driveshaft CE crossmember Heidts Mustang II front suspension, 3:10 Posi)
The '51 Chevy Blog
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Edited by davidchristopher on 08-03-12 09:53 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chopperdoc
Contributor
Posts: 109
Age: 52
Loc: Huntsville, AL
Reg: 07-31-12
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08-03-12 10:26 AM - Post#2255336
In response to davidchristopher
I bought it this week, got it trailered home last night. 54 with original motor and three speed.
When I bought it the guy push started it and it ran for a minute or two. I did notice the distributor moving when he gave it gas. I was told this is normal.
I charged the battery overnight; the starter cranks strong.
It has been converted to 12 volts. Wiring looks shady. I'm thinking of buying a new coil, points, cap, wires and plugs. From the looks of things, these haven't been changed in years. I figured it would be a good place to start. If it was running, I’d be replacing them anyway.
I did notice that the mechanical fuel pump is not connected and an electric pump is mounted to the shock tower. Since it ran, I assume the pump works.
I’m wondering about ordering parts now that it’s been converted to 12 volt. I read something about needing a specific when a ballast is used in the ignition. Since I’m buying new parts, can I delete the ballast? What do you think of an aftermarket box such as an MSD?
1954 Belair 2 Door
“Some people wake up, stretch and enjoy Freedom, Some people wake up, stretch and defend it”
"For those who are willing to fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"
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Edited by Chopperdoc on 08-03-12 10:28 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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2blu52
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13075
Age: 79
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
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08-03-12 12:48 PM - Post#2255383
In response to Chopperdoc
It is normal for the distributor to wobble when the engine is running. If the conversion to 12V ws made then the resistor is mounted in line to the coil, this reduces the voltage to the ignition to 6 Volts, even factory ignition systems run the resistor unless one is built into the coil.
"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"
THOMAS JEFFERSON |
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 18inchapes
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 331
Age: 45
Loc: Jackson, NJ
Reg: 10-18-08
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08-03-12 01:32 PM - Post#2255399
In response to 2blu52
Hey Chopper, the wiring is pretty basic on these old rides (compared to todays rides), so theres not alot to go wrong. one thing that has me a bit confused is the car will start when you push it, but not when cranking with the starter, is that right? If thats the case, I would start with the distributor wiring (ballast resistor) like 2blu52 talked about. Sounds like when your cranking with the button,your losing voltage to the distributor.
Up on top of this fourms page, theres a sticky for converting our cars to 12 volts. Theres suggested parts with part numbers that you can get at NAPA, etc.in there. It also tells you what to replace/upgrade/add into the 6 volt factory harness.
Hope that helps............Jeff
1952 Chevy hardtop
1932 Plymouth PB 3 window coupe
1940 Willys sedan
1964 Chevy II SS
1966 Pontiac GTO hardtop
Jeff |
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 usmile4
"6th Year Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3081
Age: 66
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Reg: 08-12-05
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08-03-12 03:26 PM - Post#2255432
In response to 18inchapes
If you can get it started by push starting, I would get it running and check the timing and get everything adjusted so it is running like it should. I would not change out all your wires, cap , and points if you can get it running and get everything set. If it won't start then you know it is something in the starting circuit like Jeff says that is causing your problem.
Bill Gommel
49 chevy Styleline (Sold), 51 Styleline 2 dr Special, 235 (from a 61 truck) bored .060 over, Dual Carter/Webers, Fenton Headers, T5- 5 speed with a 56 rear end. |
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dsacton
Contributor
Posts: 382
Loc: Boulder, CO
Reg: 11-01-11
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08-03-12 05:10 PM - Post#2255447
In response to 18inchapes
Could also be that the ignition switch is wired wrong. Mine was like that for years--you could crank all you wanted, but it wouldn't start UNTIL you let off of the key.
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2blu52
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13075
Age: 79
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
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08-04-12 05:36 AM - Post#2255554
In response to dsacton
Could also be that the ignition switch is wired wrong. Mine was like that for years--you could crank all you wanted, but it wouldn't start UNTIL you let off of the key.
Did you reqire the switch? reason for asking is that hard cranking with a 6V battery will reduce voltage available at the coil and release of the pushbutton will allow the necessary increase in voltage and whammo it starts.
"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"
THOMAS JEFFERSON |
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bobg1951chevy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4879
Loc: Ellijay, GA
Reg: 02-18-08
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08-04-12 01:31 PM - Post#2255681
In response to Chopperdoc
Keep in mind cranking a 6 volt starter for a length of time with a 12 volt battery is not good for the 6 volt starter..
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Jack Crain
Contributor
Posts: 400
Age: 60
Loc: WIchita Falls, Texas
Reg: 07-24-11
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08-04-12 04:21 PM - Post#2255738
In response to Chopperdoc
Chopperdoc,
By any chance you work for a company in south Louisianna?
| 1946 Fleetmaster 4-dr Sedan |
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Chopperdoc
Contributor
Posts: 109
Age: 52
Loc: Huntsville, AL
Reg: 07-31-12
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08-04-12 08:09 PM - Post#2255818
In response to bobg1951chevy
Got it running! Charged battery and a spray of starting fluid did the trick.
But...as soon as I try to let it idle, it dies. The previous owner bypassed the mechanical fuel pump and added an electrical pump. I did notice it was wired to the coil. Thinking it may not be getting a full 12 volts. Need to check it with a meter. Also figure it would not hurt to rebuild the carb..
1954 Belair 2 Door
“Some people wake up, stretch and enjoy Freedom, Some people wake up, stretch and defend it”
"For those who are willing to fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"
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NWMO 52 Chevy
Contributor
Posts: 576
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Reg: 11-10-10
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08-04-12 08:36 PM - Post#2255830
In response to bobg1951chevy
Bob,
I also work on and "study" my 1960 tractor. I know when a conversion is done on them (including mine), the 6V starter performs fine on 12V. I would have expected similar results here. It's often pointed out how fast the 6V starters spin on 12V, but the difference in service life is negligible.
Chris
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 mahlmann
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 480
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
Reg: 01-20-11
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08-04-12 08:41 PM - Post#2255834
In response to Chopperdoc
The large laminated color-coded wiring diagrams from ClassicCarWiring on eBay are also excellent. I have their diagrams for '50 and '54 and they are great.
Mike Ahlmann
Sunnyvale, CA
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bobg1951chevy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4879
Loc: Ellijay, GA
Reg: 02-18-08
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08-04-12 08:53 PM - Post#2255839
In response to NWMO 52 Chevy
We have had instances here where a 6 volt starter cranking for a LONGER period of time , as with a no start condition, will cause burn out problems to the 6 volt starter. I was trying to give you a heads up as to what could happen. Not here to spar with you. 
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NWMO 52 Chevy
Contributor
Posts: 576
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Reg: 11-10-10
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08-05-12 10:01 AM - Post#2255967
In response to bobg1951chevy
Thanks Bob,
I appreciate the help and have no intentions of "sparring" with one of the champs  .
Chris
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bobg1951chevy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4879
Loc: Ellijay, GA
Reg: 02-18-08
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08-05-12 11:52 AM - Post#2256008
In response to NWMO 52 Chevy
Sure as heck not one of the champs, but my point was prolonged cranking could cause a burn out condition. Prolonged being the key word here. Like you said, though, not an issue to hit the button and you have a start. 
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Chopperdoc
Contributor
Posts: 109
Age: 52
Loc: Huntsville, AL
Reg: 07-31-12
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08-05-12 07:30 PM - Post#2256181
In response to Chopperdoc
Fuel pump has 12 volts. Going to figure out which carb I have and get a rebuilt kit.
1954 Belair 2 Door
“Some people wake up, stretch and enjoy Freedom, Some people wake up, stretch and defend it”
"For those who are willing to fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"
|
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Chopperdoc
Contributor
Posts: 109
Age: 52
Loc: Huntsville, AL
Reg: 07-31-12
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08-06-12 08:05 AM - Post#2256332
In response to Jack Crain
Chopperdoc,
By any chance you work for a company in south Louisianna?
Nope..I live and work in Huntsville, AL
1954 Belair 2 Door
“Some people wake up, stretch and enjoy Freedom, Some people wake up, stretch and defend it”
"For those who are willing to fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"
|
|
Jack Crain
Contributor
Posts: 400
Age: 60
Loc: WIchita Falls, Texas
Reg: 07-24-11
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08-06-12 11:53 AM - Post#2256411
In response to Chopperdoc
Sorry for the mix-up. I work with a pilot that goes by the name of Chopperdoc. It that was you, I would get you fixed up with your wiring, carb rebuild, etc. I went thru that and a lot more when I got my 46 Fleetmaster
| 1946 Fleetmaster 4-dr Sedan |
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Chopperdoc
Contributor
Posts: 109
Age: 52
Loc: Huntsville, AL
Reg: 07-31-12
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08-06-12 01:34 PM - Post#2256437
In response to Jack Crain
Sorry for the mix-up. I work with a pilot that goes by the name of Chopperdoc. It that was you, I would get you fixed up with your wiring, carb rebuild, etc. I went thru that and a lot more when I got my 46 Fleetmaster
I was a helicopter mechanic in the Army
1954 Belair 2 Door
“Some people wake up, stretch and enjoy Freedom, Some people wake up, stretch and defend it”
"For those who are willing to fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"
|
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Jack Crain
Contributor
Posts: 400
Age: 60
Loc: WIchita Falls, Texas
Reg: 07-24-11
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08-06-12 03:03 PM - Post#2256462
In response to Chopperdoc
Me too, and stayed with it since I got out in '71. These old chevies are a lot of fun. Pretty easy to work on, too. Just that every once in a while a real "stumper" pops up and will drive you nuts. The guys on here will help you out.
| 1946 Fleetmaster 4-dr Sedan |
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