TwentyBucks
Contributor
Posts: 273
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Reg: 11-06-07
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07-30-12 11:16 AM - Post#2253746
So my 03 Suburban 5.3 needs a trans fluid change and it seems like I have 3 options but not sure what the best option for the money is.
Option 1 The local oil change place has a system flush, all of the fluid including torque converter is flushed out and replaced. the pan is not dropped and the filter is not changed.
$159
Option 2 Chevy dealer flushes entire system, drops pan and changes filter, torque converter is flushed.
$550
Option 3 I get the pan gasket and filter kit. drain fluid, drop pan, change filter. Torque converter has the old fluid in it.
$19.99 for gasket and filter kit, ~ $30 for fluid so about $50
The dealer option would be best but $550 is a chunk of change, not sure if it is worth it.
Any opinions?
2010 Cadillac CTS
2003 Suburban 4X4
98 K1500 5.0L
2002 Honda Civic, commuter car |
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Allan In NE
Contributor
Posts: 897
Reg: 12-27-11
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07-30-12 12:11 PM - Post#2253766
In response to TwentyBucks
All you really need to concern yourself with is that filter, as all the bad junk is inside of it.
5qts shallow pan; 7 deep.
Your truck 'should' have a re-useable rubber gasket.
Allan
| Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist |
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sgian
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4438
Loc: MO
Reg: 12-25-03
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07-30-12 12:53 PM - Post#2253786
In response to Allan In NE
There is some debate on whether it is better to flush or just replace the filter. I've gotten different stories myself, with the shops that bought the flush machines pushing the flush while more traditional places that haven't bought the flush machine say to stay away from a flush.
Supposedly deposits can build up over time in the lines and passageways. Any increase in pressure can then knock them loose. In case that is true, I stay away from the flushes and do the filter change myself every couple of years. Even some shops pushing a flush said that if the transmission has a lot of miles and hasn't been flushed before, it shouldn't be flushed due to the deposits.
On these trucks there is a bracket on the driver's side in the way of removing the pan. IIRC it is for the shift lever and something else. The screws holding the bracket in are facing up, so you can't see them. I think they take a star screwdriver or key, but it might be an allen wrench. Whatever the case, mine are rounded out and in there tight. I'm not going to say to bend the bracket out of the way, it is better to remove the bracket if possible. But if you do wind up bending the bracket, watch out for the truck shifting accidentally while you are under it...Don't do it on an incline if possible, and have the wheels blocked.
| 04 Silverado Z71, 10 Cobalt |
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Alan_W
Senior Member
Posts: 420
Loc: Little Rock, AR
Reg: 10-15-02
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07-30-12 02:28 PM - Post#2253832
In response to TwentyBucks
There is a way to change ALL the fluid in your transmission, including the torque converter. It uses the natural flow of the transmission in the direction it usually flows and makes no increase in pressure. If you can do this yourself, the only cost will be for the filter and about 14 qts of fluid.
First change the filter in the pan and reassemble. As stated, this is the hardest part because of things in the way of dropping the pan.
Once you get that done, you take the top transmission fluid line to the radator loose and turn on the engine and let it pump out fluid until you hear it gurgle and suck air. Then you add as much new fluid as you just pumped out, then do it again and again until you have used about 14 qts. of new fluid.
The fluid flows through the transmission in a linear manner with very little mixing, so you are basically exchanging old fluid for new. I don't have time to type any more of the procedure right now, but others on here know the it and there are also youtube videos showing the techinque.
2000 GMC Sierra SLE 3Dr. X-cab
2WD/5.3/auto/3.73 |
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TwentyBucks
Contributor
Posts: 273
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Reg: 11-06-07
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07-31-12 05:18 AM - Post#2254086
In response to sgian
I have also heard the pros and cons about flushing with a machine as well. Thinking about doing it myself but like you mentioned the shift linkage is in the way and I couldn't see how to get the linkage off, it is bolted on way up there. Also the exhuast pipe crosses over right under the pan. Not a big deal it being there dropping the pan but putting it back on is the problem. I have always had kind of a tought time getting the pan back on while keeping the gaskett in place and with the exhaust pipe in the way it looks like it is going to be a pain in the butt. My Haynes manual doesn't say anything about removing the linkage, I need to get back under there and look at it again to see how it comes off.
2010 Cadillac CTS
2003 Suburban 4X4
98 K1500 5.0L
2002 Honda Civic, commuter car |
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Alan_W
Senior Member
Posts: 420
Loc: Little Rock, AR
Reg: 10-15-02
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07-31-12 06:11 AM - Post#2254104
In response to TwentyBucks
Twentybucks,
You can bend the shift linkage a bit to the side for pan clearance, then straighten it out.
On the exhaust crossover, I've found that I can get clearance by removing the rear transmission mount bolt (tailpiece) and using a floor jack to jack up the trans just a bit so the pan clears the exhaust piece.
I use a little gasket sealer ( in spite of the instructions) to stick the gasket to the pan before even trying to get it in place. Not had any leakage issues.
2000 GMC Sierra SLE 3Dr. X-cab
2WD/5.3/auto/3.73 |
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DenaliXL
Contributor
Posts: 122
Reg: 02-25-07
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07-31-12 07:26 AM - Post#2254121
In response to Alan_W
Option 3.
The bracket is held on by two downward facing torx headed bolts. The two times that I have flushed my '03, I was able to remove the easier to get to bolt (still PIA) and rotate/pry/pivot the bracket a couple inches around the other bolt. No bending. When done, rotate it back and replace the one bolt removed.
Also, some gaskets have the pan bolt holes made slightly smaller so as to hold the bolts - which in turn holds the gasket where it needs to be. Getting the pan passed the exhaust isn't hard once the bracket is moved.
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evot123
Contributor
Posts: 205
Loc: s.c.
Reg: 02-11-09
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07-31-12 10:34 AM - Post#2254176
In response to DenaliXL
if youre having trouble keeping the gasket in place i have a fix for you that will work on ALL gaskets BUT THE HEAD GASKETS,NEVER USE IT THERE.go to wal-mart or any parts house and buy a can of 3M spray adhesive and spray around the pan where the gasket goes and also spray the pan side of the gasket, wait about 1 minute and make sure the gasket is lined up right and put the two together then rub your hand around the gasket to make sure its flat and youre done. that gasket WILL NOT MOVE UNTIL YOU SCRAPE IT OFF. hope this helps. i use this method alot around the shop.
| dont give up, help is on the way |
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elcamino
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4812
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
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07-31-12 11:03 AM - Post#2254185
In response to evot123
Here is a step by step >>>>>GUIDE
This is the safest way to replace all the ATF. This is how I have done my vehicles for 30 yrs converting them over the AMSOIL 100% Synthetic. It was showed to me by a long time transmission pro and widely used by professionals. Amateurs use machines to make quick $.
There has never been a reason for a quick lube place or a dealer to flush a transmission other than to sell more transmission fluid.
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L |
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evot123
Contributor
Posts: 205
Loc: s.c.
Reg: 02-11-09
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07-31-12 11:14 AM - Post#2254187
In response to elcamino
i agree, never go for the machine flush. always drop the pan and change the filter and refill with new fluid. around south carolina where im at the tranny flush at the quick lube place cost around 150.00 and at the dealer the same thing cost 250.00. you can get a little dirty yourself and replace the filter and fluid for around 50.00 and will have done much better along with saving money......mike
| dont give up, help is on the way |
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TwentyBucks
Contributor
Posts: 273
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Reg: 11-06-07
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08-01-12 09:55 AM - Post#2254504
In response to Alan_W
I think the machine flush option is out as well as the expensive dealer option. Seems like the machine flush is kind of a scam and the dealer wanting $550 to flush everything and change the filter is just plain ridiculous.
I'm going to get back under there this weekend and see if I can get the linkage bracket off or moved out of the way. I'm thinking I should be able to get the pan back on even with the exhaust crossing under it, it just may take some patience.
2010 Cadillac CTS
2003 Suburban 4X4
98 K1500 5.0L
2002 Honda Civic, commuter car |
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elcamino
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4812
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
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08-02-12 03:47 AM - Post#2254794
In response to TwentyBucks
Just a word of advice. GM used 2 types of transmission pans on 4L60 and to get the correct filter you need to determine if you have the normal pan or the deep pan. The normal pan is all flat on the bottom and the deep pan has a step in it, front to back. Typically 4x4's have the deep pan but you have to make certain as anything is possible. They both take the same amount of ATF but the filter is different. Note-Wix filters run less then $25 at retail.
Also I can tell you that many who diy find the pan difficult to get off, the linkage and the crossover can present problems and laying on your back makes it more difficult, no room to work. Also, whatever you do DO NOT REMOVE the pan all at once, remove ever other bolt and leave bolts towards the front corners so the pan dips down and slowly drains fluid at the rear. It is heavy with 5+ qts of ATF in there and many have doused themselves in hot ATF when the pan fell on them. NEVER work under a vehicle without safety glasses, going to be painfull going to ER with hot ATF in your face and eyes.
Here is the deep pan
If you are wondering why I seem to know so much. I have been a GM vehicle owner for over 30 yrs and an AMSOIL Dealer as well. So I dealth with a lot of customers changing ATF over to synthetic. Its kind of ironic around here that it costs less to have the pro change the ATF than to let amateurs. If you need more info you can pm me.
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L |
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elcamino
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4812
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
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08-02-12 04:11 AM - Post#2254799
In response to elcamino
If you are dealing with GM ATF, be aware of the warning on the label. This is a hazzardous product to use so take precautions.
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L |
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TwentyBucks
Contributor
Posts: 273
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Reg: 11-06-07
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08-02-12 07:42 AM - Post#2254862
In response to elcamino
I looked at the pan last weekend and I think i might have the deep pan. I'm going to go back under on Sunday morning and look things over and decide if I'm going to do it or not. If I can get the linkage bracket removed or moved over and if I think I can deal with the exhaust pipe then I might go all in at that point. Sunday morning the fluid will be cold and the parts store has the gasket and filter kit in stock for $19.99. Game time decision I guess.
2010 Cadillac CTS
2003 Suburban 4X4
98 K1500 5.0L
2002 Honda Civic, commuter car |
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DenaliXL
Contributor
Posts: 122
Reg: 02-25-07
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08-02-12 01:12 PM - Post#2254990
In response to TwentyBucks
Also, whatever you do DO NOT REMOVE the pan all at once, remove ever other bolt and leave bolts towards the front corners so the pan dips down and slowly drains fluid at the rear. It is heavy with 5+ qts of ATF in there and many have doused themselves in hot ATF when the pan fell on them.
That would be good advice if the pan didn't have a drainplug (thanks GM). The drain plug has a shallow head so use a quality metric 6-point socket.
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 black95jimmy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 8194
Loc: Venice, FL
Reg: 01-05-02
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08-03-12 01:08 AM - Post#2255225
In response to DenaliXL
Also, whatever you do DO NOT REMOVE the pan all at once, remove ever other bolt and leave bolts towards the front corners so the pan dips down and slowly drains fluid at the rear. It is heavy with 5+ qts of ATF in there and many have doused themselves in hot ATF when the pan fell on them.
That would be good advice if the pan didn't have a drainplug (thanks GM). The drain plug has a shallow head so use a quality metric 6-point socket.
Except they never come off!
82 Monte Carlo SC, 355 w/Vortec heads, roller rockers, 670 Street Avenger, Pypes true duals.
2000 Sub.5.3L 40 Gallons of gas @ $3.45/gal. bla bla bla. |
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black95jimmy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 8194
Loc: Venice, FL
Reg: 01-05-02
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08-03-12 01:09 AM - Post#2255224
In response to DenaliXL
Also, whatever you do DO NOT REMOVE the pan all at once, remove ever other bolt and leave bolts towards the front corners so the pan dips down and slowly drains fluid at the rear. It is heavy with 5+ qts of ATF in there and many have doused themselves in hot ATF when the pan fell on them.
That would be good advice if the pan didn't have a drainplug (thanks GM). The drain plug has a shallow head so use a quality metric 6-point socket.
Except they never come off!
82 Monte Carlo SC, 355 w/Vortec heads, roller rockers, 670 Street Avenger, Pypes true duals.
2000 Sub.5.3L 40 Gallons of gas @ $3.45/gal. bla bla bla. |
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DenaliXL
Contributor
Posts: 122
Reg: 02-25-07
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08-05-12 08:34 AM - Post#2255936
In response to black95jimmy
Says you... 
Honestly they are a PIA due to the shallow head design but mines been out about 5 times.
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Alan_W
Senior Member
Posts: 420
Loc: Little Rock, AR
Reg: 10-15-02
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08-05-12 04:37 PM - Post#2256125
In response to DenaliXL
1/2" drive 6-pt metric socket and all, mine seems like it's welded to the pan 
2000 GMC Sierra SLE 3Dr. X-cab
2WD/5.3/auto/3.73 |
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black95jimmy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 8194
Loc: Venice, FL
Reg: 01-05-02
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08-05-12 05:22 PM - Post#2256143
In response to Alan_W
1/2" drive 6-pt metric socket and all, mine seems like it's welded to the pan
Some threads out there about the early ones being impossible to get off, LIKE MINE!! Over torqued from the factory. 
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/general-discuss ...
82 Monte Carlo SC, 355 w/Vortec heads, roller rockers, 670 Street Avenger, Pypes true duals.
2000 Sub.5.3L 40 Gallons of gas @ $3.45/gal. bla bla bla. |
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TwentyBucks
Contributor
Posts: 273
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Reg: 11-06-07
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08-06-12 08:28 AM - Post#2256342
In response to elcamino
So I got under there yesterday and looked things over again and in looking at it the only real probelm is the shift linkage. It gets in the way of two bolts. The bracket is bolted on from above and I can't really see any way of loosening or removing it. As Alan suggested above it can be bent a little and bent back, it won't take much to get clearence for the two bolts. The exhaust pipe crossing over underneath is a lot lower than I thought so I don't think that will be an issue. Otherwise it doesn't look all that difficult, a little messy maybe but not that bad overall and if I let it cool down overnight, hot tranny fluid won't be an issue.
2010 Cadillac CTS
2003 Suburban 4X4
98 K1500 5.0L
2002 Honda Civic, commuter car |
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IBGM
Senior Member
Posts: 508
Loc: Silvertown, Ma.
Reg: 12-03-03
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08-06-12 09:05 AM - Post#2256359
In response to TwentyBucks
Any chance you can get a fluid pump? I pump the fluid (warm- it's easier) out through the dipstick before I drop the pan. That way, when I drop the pan, it doesn't go everywhere.
When I do this job, I empty the pan with my fluid pump, refill it with new fluid, drive it for a week, then pump it again, drop the pan and change the filter and refill with new fluid. That's all I do.
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elcamino
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4812
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
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08-06-12 09:21 AM - Post#2256372
In response to TwentyBucks
Here is a How-To Article on changing all the ATF
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L |
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TwentyBucks
Contributor
Posts: 273
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Reg: 11-06-07
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08-06-12 09:32 AM - Post#2256376
In response to IBGM
My pan has a drainplug. After draining it looks like there might be a quart at most left in the pan by my estimate.
2010 Cadillac CTS
2003 Suburban 4X4
98 K1500 5.0L
2002 Honda Civic, commuter car |
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elcamino
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4812
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
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08-06-12 09:36 AM - Post#2256377
In response to TwentyBucks
Good luck with that drain plug. I have not heard of anyone being able to remove it.
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L |
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TwentyBucks
Contributor
Posts: 273
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Reg: 11-06-07
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08-06-12 09:38 AM - Post#2256378
In response to elcamino
That is interesting that you can see the top of the linkage bracket with the torx socket so easy in the picture. Probably because the vehicle is on a lift so it should be easy to take a step back and see it from the rear while standing upright. Not so easy to see when lying on a creeper though. Jackstands will never get it high enough.
2010 Cadillac CTS
2003 Suburban 4X4
98 K1500 5.0L
2002 Honda Civic, commuter car |
|
elcamino
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4812
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
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08-07-12 04:43 AM - Post#2256674
In response to TwentyBucks
No, its not on the lift. Kyle did this in his garage on the floor, you can clearly see that in the pics. Its a pita laying on your back and doing this, done it a few times myself in the past and never thought it was an easy job.
I don't think its mentioned in the write up but this was on a 2008 Yukon, his wifes ride.
I set him up to buy the AMSOIL ATF at discount prices. If you want that, send me a PM for more info.
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L |
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bobb
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4623
Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
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08-07-12 09:02 AM - Post#2256748
In response to TwentyBucks
i dont recomend running your engine till the pump sucks air. hydraulic pumps dont like that. the flush is a waste of money to me. that pan can be a bear to remove so make sure you have the time and patience to do it. i would bend the bracket cause as noted those bolts are hard to get at and remove and as noted you should use a high end brand torx socket to remove them if thats your choice. i would be sure to get a good filter like a wix or other top brands, but probly not fram. i would make sure the drain plug works for future fluid changes. i change mine often cause transmission jobs cost alot. i would get a good sized rare earth magnet and stick it in the pan, away from any solenoids. i would also use synthetic fluid. that exhaust pipe may drive you nuts make sure you have a big piece of cardboard under there to make a big mess on. lastly i would not change the filter very often, thats why the frequent oil changes. some cars with front wheel drive dont even have filters and they last a very long time.
| 70 L camino 350 all forged,174 baby blower, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails. |
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models916
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1861
Age: 62
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
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08-07-12 09:33 AM - Post#2256755
In response to bobb
Pump is a vane and ring style pump. Will not be damaged if it is run to empty the pan. As long as it is wet it will be ok. Just be sure to shut it off on the first burp of air.
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TwentyBucks
Contributor
Posts: 273
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
Reg: 11-06-07
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08-08-12 07:56 AM - Post#2257065
In response to bobb
I'm not planning on trying to get every quart of fluid out, just going to drain the pan and change the filter. I might try moving the linkage bracket first but if it is too much of a struggle I'm just going to bend the braket a little, it won't take much to get clearence for the two bolts it is covering. I'll maybe spend a half hour on the torx bolts on the bracket but after that it will be bend time for the bracket. The exhaust pipe is low enough so it doesn't look like a big isssue. I'm going to start early some morning with a cold engine and just take my sweet old time about it, even if it takes all day.
2010 Cadillac CTS
2003 Suburban 4X4
98 K1500 5.0L
2002 Honda Civic, commuter car |
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