JonSalguero
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 07-23-12
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07-23-12 03:21 AM - Post#2251079
Hello,
So i recently purchased a 1964 chevy Bel air with a 350 engine edelbrock valve covers and MSD ignition box coils and blaster. I recently noticed that when my engine is hot there is smoke that cmoes out through the engine oil cap.Iam unsise if this is normal but from what i know isnt the engine steam or smoke supposed to come out through the air filter up top? Also my "HOT" light came on the dashboard but yet my radidator is topped off with coolant and so is the reservoir box and the pump works fine as the coolant flows easily. I dont know much about older car so any help or clues would be greatly appreciated. Thank You
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Allan In NE
Contributor
Posts: 898
Reg: 12-27-11
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07-23-12 04:52 AM - Post#2251095
In response to JonSalguero
Don't know what kind of setup you have, but "originally" they were set up with a draft tube configuration.
Road speed developed a vacuum at the draft tube, which would suck the vent gases out thru the tube while clean air was drawn 'in' thru the oil filler cap.
So, just sitting still and not moving, there is no vacuum and it's normal for the oil cap to 'vent backwards' out thru that cap.
Allan
| Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist |
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junky
Contributor
Posts: 886
Reg: 06-27-10
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07-23-12 05:36 AM - Post#2251105
In response to JonSalguero
Having a 350 engine in your car takes it out of the realm of being an older car engine. The engine should have the original emmissions parts installed. What you are seeing is blow by the cylinder rings coming out the top of the engine. How worn the rings are, is hard to tell.
Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
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Sic_63
Forum Newbie
Posts: 28
Age: 37
Loc: Pennsylvania
Reg: 07-01-12
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07-23-12 05:43 AM - Post#2251108
In response to JonSalguero
Is your hot light coming on when sitting still or while moving also? Do you have an electrical fan installed?
Carmen
1963 Impala 2 Door Hardtop |
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JonSalguero
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 07-23-12
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07-23-12 06:15 AM - Post#2251121
In response to Sic_63
So I see a tube coming from the valve covers to the carburetor not sure if that is the vaccum hose you speak of. Also what do you mean by what kind of set up I dont know i just know its a 350 engine with edelbrock 4bbl carb shorty headers weiand manifold, MSD ign box and coil blaster and tall edelbrock valve covers. I apologize for my ignorance like i said i am a novice at this trying to figure out if its supposed to blow smoke through there or not. Also my HOT light came on after a 20 min of driving but the previous day i drove all day with no issues. I have picture to show of the engine if anyone can tell me how i can post them. THANK YOU much!!
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 dcairns
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1530
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
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07-23-12 06:38 AM - Post#2251125
In response to JonSalguero
In 64, they did not use the draft tube anymore, it was one of these PCV systems:
Since you have a 350 in there, you probably have something like this:
Fresh air comes in through the big hose on the left valve cover (through a breather mounted on the air filter). This could be just a breather cap on that side. Dirty crankcase air is pulled out through the hose on the right valve cover into the carburetor to be burned.
If you are seeing smoke coming out of the breather, that may mean your PCV valve is not working right (the right angle thing coming out of the right valve cover, yours may vary in shape and/or placement).
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JonSalguero
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 07-23-12
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07-23-12 07:28 AM - Post#2251142
In response to junky
[image]http://m1147.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/jons alguero/1343053402.jpg.html?o=0[/image]
So this is my engine
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Allan In NE
Contributor
Posts: 898
Reg: 12-27-11
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07-23-12 07:40 AM - Post#2251150
In response to JonSalguero
You're link doesn't work. Try again?
Really doubt that you have the California emmisions but you may have the positive vent system, which became standard in the rest of the country in 1968.
Need to see your engine. :>)
Allan
| Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist |
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junky
Contributor
Posts: 886
Reg: 06-27-10
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07-23-12 07:52 AM - Post#2251158
In response to JonSalguero
Ask the person that you purchased the car from what the details of the engine are. Without the details of how this engine was put together, we will all be guessing. Once parts start being changed with aftermarket items, it is next to impossible to determine what the original configuration was.
One of the easier things to do first is to take a compression reading of the cylinders to see the condition of the rings and valves.
The temperature light coming on can be a intermittent ground in the electrical circuit, a defective switch, defective fan clutch or water pump, the radiator might be cooling enough.
Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
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JonSalguero
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 07-23-12
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07-23-12 08:30 AM - Post#2251173
In response to junky
Ok ill try this again here's the link
This is the descriptions: Engine is a 350 ci. 4bolt main bored 40 over. Camel hump heads with guid plates and roller rockers. weiand intake. edlebrock carb. trw forged pistons 9.8 to 1 compression.fluid damper. new crank shaft and rods. shorty headers with dual 2.25 " pipes and flowmasters. MSD billet distributer with 6AL box and rev limiter. double roller timing chain.Impalla big block radiator. Transmission is a turbo 350 with B&M master racing overhaul kit. B&M 2800 converter. B&M quick silver shifter.
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Allan In NE
Contributor
Posts: 898
Reg: 12-27-11
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07-23-12 09:37 AM - Post#2251186
In response to JonSalguero
Jon,
That engine appears to be sweating.
Can ya run out there and take a picture of RIGHT/Rear side of the engine from the top down.....with the air cleaner off? Right side means as viewed from the driver's seat.
I'm wondering if this guy even has a vent system of any kind.
Allan
| Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist |
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dcairns
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1530
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
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07-23-12 10:18 AM - Post#2251198
In response to Allan In NE
Yeah, I agree with Allan. It looks like the engine only has a breather, no suction side, which would explain occasional smoke out the breather. As I recall all 350 blocks did not have the cast in the block vent passage back by the distributer. When the 350 came out, they had switched to doing the vent/PCV system through the valve covers.
What you need is a hole in the other valve cover and a PCV valve and tube going to the carburetor (like my picture of the messy 350).
Old style block (as would be used in 64). Notice the extra hole next to the distributer hole (on the left side). The hole connects to the lifter valley. This extra hole is where the draft tube (in earlier years) would connect. By 64, there were the two vent systems, as in the diagram I posted earlier.
Later blocks the vent hole was filled in.
And then finally eliminated altogether, this is probably what your block looks like.
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 turbo38s10
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 652
Loc: Agawam,MA
Reg: 09-17-09
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07-23-12 04:33 PM - Post#2251347
In response to dcairns
I agree I don't see any PCVC valve or suction hose on the right side. If that's the case that would answer why he has smoke coming out the breather, But doesn't address the overheating.
That could be lots of things, including the wrong rotation pump since 350 used both.
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JonSalguero
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 07-23-12
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07-23-12 06:09 PM - Post#2251385
In response to Allan In NE
Ok so I just took some pixs of the left side of the carb where there is a pcv valve I think.
Looks like a hose is supposed to go here where I circled I am not sure
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dcairns
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1530
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
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07-23-12 06:51 PM - Post#2251403
In response to JonSalguero
Well, that is good. You should check the PCV valve, hose and cab base to make sure they are not clogged. If those are good, then you must be getting excessive blow-by, which is not good.
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Sic_63
Forum Newbie
Posts: 28
Age: 37
Loc: Pennsylvania
Reg: 07-01-12
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07-23-12 07:06 PM - Post#2251414
In response to JonSalguero
Where you have it circled would go to your power break booster, you don't have one so its fine being plugged.
Carmen
1963 Impala 2 Door Hardtop |
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JonSalguero
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 07-23-12
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07-23-12 09:20 PM - Post#2251471
In response to Allan In NE
Ok and thank you all for your help I just hope my engine doesn't break down because of this smoke, I use it as my daily driver. But ill just mess with it see what I can do..AGAIN THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME AND HELP IT IS GREATKY APPRECIATED!!
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JonSalguero
Forum Newbie
Posts: 16
Reg: 07-23-12
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07-23-12 09:48 PM - Post#2251477
In response to dcairns
So I just read up on what blow-by is and I'm pretty sure that's what my issue is. First of the smoke that comes out from the oil cap smells like fuel and second I just noticed oil on the air filter..ok so how do I fix this? Thanks
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doubleE
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3682
Loc: Eagan MN
Reg: 06-02-03
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07-24-12 04:05 AM - Post#2251513
In response to JonSalguero
Engine overhaul. At the very least, hone the cylinder walls and new rings. Most would do a valve job and a new timeing chain/gears at the same time.
But if you plan to keep this car for awhile you might consider boreing it out some which would mean new pistons.
Eric
| Proud owner of
My Blue 62
Impala SS |
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dcairns
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1530
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
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07-24-12 06:00 AM - Post#2251542
In response to Sic_63
Where you have it circled would go to your power break booster, you don't have one so its fine being plugged.
It looks like that is a Edelbrock carb which is a kind of clone of the Carter AFB. I do know that on the Carter AFB, that fitting in the front is used for the vacuum advance. The power brake vacuum comes off a fitting on the intake manifold, just behind the carburetor.
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models916
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1861
Age: 62
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
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07-24-12 07:53 AM - Post#2251591
In response to dcairns
Looks like the heater hose is connected to the By-Pass port from the pic posted. Won't circulate correctly like that if that is so. Could be just the picture. Should be from the manifold and from the lower port on the water pump. By pass should be plugged for your configuration.
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turbo38s10
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 652
Loc: Agawam,MA
Reg: 09-17-09
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07-24-12 08:45 AM - Post#2251611
In response to turbo38s10
That's the PCV alright. Much better pic. I'd replace it just to be safe.
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BigCoop64
Senior Member
Posts: 529
Loc: Milwaukee,Wisconsin
Reg: 02-19-04
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07-24-12 09:26 AM - Post#2251620
In response to dcairns
your statement on 1964 engines didnt have the draft tube setup is incorrect. my 64 impala came with that setup. i switched it to the current hole in valve covers system and plugged the hole ,but will go back to the original valve covers as soon as i can get the oil fill tube hole drilled out this winter. when did they stop ,later yr models?
1964 Impala
Original 283.030over
powerglide,edelbrock/holl y
Pete Jackson gear drive
HEI/msd 6al
2.25" exhaust w/50series flowmasters
other cars:2003 Monte Carlo LS
1996 Dodge Stratus
http://community.webshots.com/user/bigcoop64 |
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dcairns
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1530
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
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07-24-12 11:05 AM - Post#2251665
In response to BigCoop64
your statement on 1964 engines didnt have the draft tube setup is incorrect. my 64 impala came with that setup. i switched it to the current hole in valve covers system and plugged the hole ,but will go back to the original valve covers as soon as i can get the oil fill tube hole drilled out this winter. when did they stop ,later yr models?
Perhaps you misunderstand what I mean by "draft tube". The term seems to be abused a bit. A draft tube is a tube extending from the opening in the block, down below the engine and is open to the atmosphere there. This was apparently used till '62 on Impalas.
A draft tube:
By '64 it should have been either the "Standard" or "Closed" vent system in the shop manual diagram I posted. Some folks still call the metal tube coming from the hole in the block in the diagram a "draft tube" although that is not very accurate.
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junky
Contributor
Posts: 886
Reg: 06-27-10
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07-24-12 11:14 AM - Post#2251666
In response to dcairns
In the 1962 V-8 engines, the road draft tube was the standard production, and the closed crankcase ventilation system using a Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve (PCV) was the upgrade option. I believe that it was just a few dollars more. I am looking for the small "bell" that replaces the draft tube, if anyone has a spare. I have all the rest of the parts to complete this changeover.. thanks Junk..
Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
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dcairns
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1530
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
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07-24-12 01:35 PM - Post#2251719
In response to junky
A Corvette shops sell that:
Crankcase Vent Tube
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BigCoop64
Senior Member
Posts: 529
Loc: Milwaukee,Wisconsin
Reg: 02-19-04
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07-24-12 03:04 PM - Post#2251741
In response to dcairns
that is exectly what my 64 came with. junkys picture is what it connects to at the rear of the engine.under the intake thee is a cylinder about 5" long that connects to the part junky showed. i removed it all during my rebuild,now i wish i just left it it there and just plugged it from the outside.
1964 Impala
Original 283.030over
powerglide,edelbrock/holl y
Pete Jackson gear drive
HEI/msd 6al
2.25" exhaust w/50series flowmasters
other cars:2003 Monte Carlo LS
1996 Dodge Stratus
http://community.webshots.com/user/bigcoop64 |
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 Carl1962
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 580
Loc: Australia
Reg: 04-01-10
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07-25-12 01:34 AM - Post#2251928
In response to junky
Bad luck Junky, you only just missed one from last month.
Genuine GM and half the price of the repop.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...
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62impala409
Contributor
Posts: 248
Loc: Burnsville, MN
Reg: 06-30-10
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07-25-12 08:16 AM - Post#2252012
In response to Carl1962
The 350 block doesn't have the provision for the draft tube or the bolt on dome. Valve cover pcv valve location is all that was available.
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 gotta56forme
"8th Year"Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3282
Age: 50
Loc: West Seattle
Reg: 09-19-03
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07-25-12 12:38 PM - Post#2252068
In response to 62impala409
JS,
When using a PCV on a later sbc, like you have... as I understand it can be either an 'open' or 'closed' system. My understanding is if one of the valve covers has a breather on it (like you do) and the other v.c. has a pcv piped to a vacuum source, that is an 'open' system.
A 'closed' system is similiar except the v.c. that does not have the pcv in it, has a fitting and tubing which leads to the air cleaner housing where it gets filtered air. This is shown in the photo DCairns provided.
Also, based on the reading I've done (I'm willing to be wrong), to get maximum benefit from an open or closed system, the inlet on one valve cover should be at the opposite corner of the engine from the pcv in the other valve cover. In your photos, the PCV (passenger side) and the breather (drivers side) are both at the back of the engine. Most photos I see have the fresh air inlet at the back right vc (passenger side) and the pcv at the front left vc (driver side). May just take turning your driver side vc upside down, unless it has script that will appear upside down. Again, the photo of the engine without the aircleaner housing installed that DCairns had in his post, appears to me as typical in terms of the valve cover positions for the pcv, etc.
Scott/Gotta56forme
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