fuzzyff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 45
Loc: CA
Reg: 06-13-12
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07-18-12 08:39 PM - Post#2249721
In response to nicke
you said your ignition timing is set at 20 degrees initial? (stock setting being about between 4 and 12. (You understand that BTDC means Before Top Dead Center? Could you please clear this problem up for us? My 327 Build was a .40 over build with a really mild 206/214 duration cam from comp (here) that gets its power off idle, as I wanted good usable power, and in all honesty, 99% of my driving is done under 4000k rpms. I have 9.5-1 compression, and have my timing set at 20 initial, 38 total, coming in at 25-2700rps, and it has really great manners (Vacuum advance is connected to manifold vacuum and is 12 total). I run 93 octane and have no issues at all.
Now that I swapped from a powerglide and 3.07 gear to 200-4r and 3.73 gears, I would have chosen a different cam, but it is still really nice. I also got all the comp stuff for the 461 heads, and did screw in studs and guide plates.
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nicke
Contributor
Posts: 643

Age: 29
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Reg: 01-06-12
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07-18-12 09:03 PM - Post#2249727
In response to fuzzyff
Hey Fuzzy,
Yes, 20 degrees initial. I had it at 12 initial, which is where most guys start, when building a performance. As long as there is no pinging and the car isn't hard to start, with a few exceptions, the more the better. I always use 93 octane, so I am able to get away with this amount of timing.
When you look at all the guys running chevelles at the drag strip, they are running all their small blocks north of 18* initial. Yep, I am aware that BTDC means before top dead center.
Each engine is different, and almost every internal component factors in to what that particular combo likes. I started at 12 and slowly increased, testing out driving, and starting.
20 is where mine is happy.
Does that help?
-Nick
Edited by nicke on 07-18-12 09:04 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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66cayne
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1810
Reg: 08-06-08
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07-19-12 05:48 AM - Post#2249811
In response to nicke
I agree. I am running 18 degrees initial on my 327, with vaccuum advance. My combo is a 327 (actually a 331, .030 over) stock 461 heads, flat-top pistons, Comp 268 'Hi energy' cam, Holley 750 3310 vac. secondary., Edlebrock dual plane, 3- speed stick(2.85 first gear)3:08 rear. Starts great, pulls good to 5,500 rpm or so.
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ss3964spd
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3067

Loc: Fairfax, Va
Reg: 12-21-00
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07-19-12 07:05 AM - Post#2249841
In response to 66cayne
Nick, 66C, just to be clear for this discussion; is that 20 and 18 initial before connecting the vac advance?
Dan
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent. My ability to access it is not.
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nicke
Contributor
Posts: 643

Age: 29
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Reg: 01-06-12
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07-19-12 08:10 AM - Post#2249854
In response to ss3964spd
Nick, 66C, just to be clear for this discussion; is that 20 and 18 initial before connecting the vac advance?
Yep, that is correct. With vacuum hose disconnected and plugged, I have 20 initial, and 38 total coming in at 2500-2700rpm(Most people recommend on shooting for 34-36 total, mine seems to be happy with just a bit more). Then I shut her down, connect the vacuum hose back to full time manifold, and started tuning the carb. Runs like a top.
Hope that helps.
-Nick
Edited by nicke on 07-19-12 08:13 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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66cayne
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1810
Reg: 08-06-08
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07-19-12 06:21 PM - Post#2250060
In response to ss3964spd
Yes, 18 degrees before vac. is hooked up.
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79

Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-19-12 06:56 PM - Post#2250075
In response to maddjeff
So, needed a break from work today so I took off early and headed over to the shop to get started on the engine paint. Just got the block prepped and coated today, I'll have to followup with the heads this weekend.


I left the tape on for now as I'm planning on following up with some clear. I may have to do a little sanding as it looks like I had a little lint from the towels I used to clean the block down. I'm digging the cast iron color, it has a metalflake look that is hard to see in the pics. It looked nice in the sunlight!
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novice66
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1117

Age: 29
Loc: san antonio,tx
Reg: 05-06-07
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07-20-12 12:36 PM - Post#2250288
In response to maddjeff
Dang. Why didn't I think of using That color. It's gonna look good.
| <a href="http://www.picturetrail.com/uid9870823" target="_blank"><B& gt;Visit My Trail</B></a> |
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4dr 57
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2762

Loc: The Texas Hill Country
Reg: 11-10-04
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07-24-12 03:15 PM - Post#2251744
In response to maddjeff
When the shop redid the valves did they use the tool that not only cuts a new seat but also cleans up the port to about an inch below the seat?
Your going with a roller cam but not using floating pins in the forged pistons?
Back when, we used to take the vibration dampner in when getting the engine balanced. The clutch assembly too, if I recall correctly.
Will adding roller rocker arms require a push rod length check?
Because the heads have been milled might it not be advisable to have the chambers cc'd, so that you know what you have?
I love those 327's, hence my anal questions..can't be too careful when talking high rpm use.
just my $.02
Stanley
| Wife: "Don't race the Police car, Stan!" |
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1521

Reg: 05-08-03
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07-24-12 05:24 PM - Post#2251809
In response to maddjeff
Jeff,
I really like your primer coat... that motor will look great once you get the Hugger Orange on it 
Greg
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79

Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-24-12 06:36 PM - Post#2251835
In response to SS_in_Seattle
Jeff,
I really like your primer coat... that motor will look great once you get the Hugger Orange on it
Greg
Oops, I knew there was something wrong with that paint... =)
Got the clear on the block and finished up the heads as well today. I should have taken a pic in the sun, it looked really good with the sun shining on it!



Threw an old Holly Contender intake on top to to get a feel for what the finished motor would look like. Once the accessories are on I think it will look really cool in the black engine bay.
And for those of you that bleed Hugger Orange...
Edit: Just realized I have the heads set on backwards. I just threw them on to see how it looked and ran a couple bolts on to hold them in place.
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79

Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-24-12 06:51 PM - Post#2251840
In response to 4dr 57
When the shop redid the valves did they use the tool that not only cuts a new seat but also cleans up the port to about an inch below the seat?
Yes they did.
Your going with a roller cam but not using floating pins in the forged pistons?
Was not going to, but are the two linked? Guess I need to look into that more.
Back when, we used to take the vibration dampner in when getting the engine balanced. The clutch assembly too, if I recall correctly.
Yes, I'll take the balancer and flex plate in when I deliver the crank, rods and pistons.
Will adding roller rocker arms require a push rod length check?
I believe so. I was planning on ordering new push rods anyway, and I still haven't decided on 1.5 or 1.6 lift yet. This all ties back to the camshaft decision, which I still need to make.
Because the heads have been milled might it not be advisable to have the chambers cc'd, so that you know what you have?
Probably, but they really didn't mill them much. I might do that, but then again this is not going to be a racing motor.
I love those 327's, hence my anal questions..can't be too careful when talking high rpm use.
just my $.02
Stanley
Agreed, and all good questions. I need to look into the roller lifter/floating pin thing.
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50hotrod
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 383

Age: 56
Loc: Wisconsin
Reg: 07-25-11
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07-25-12 08:07 AM - Post#2252010
In response to maddjeff
Engine is going to look great!
A couple of things I want to run by you.
I see you are running the heads basically bone stock. I feel you're going to have problems down the line if you run a roller cam under this.
I realize you are not building a race engine but the steeper/quicker ramps of the roller cam is going to take a toll on those rocker studs and springs. And, even a mild roller cam needs more valve lift then these old stock heads can handle.
Usually when you retro fit a roller cam into a gen1 block you install a matched component kit. They also recommend screw in studs.
You still have the option to stay with a flat tappet cam. If you run the correct oil with proper zinc levels you will be fine. ZDDP sells the additive that can be added to any oil also.
Well, you know what's wrong with the world today
People done gone and put their Bible's away
They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land
"Simple Man" By Charlie Daniels
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79

Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-25-12 09:32 AM - Post#2252028
In response to 50hotrod
Engine is going to look great!
A couple of things I want to run by you.
I see you are running the heads basically bone stock. I feel you're going to have problems down the line if you run a roller cam under this.
I realize you are not building a race engine but the steeper/quicker ramps of the roller cam is going to take a toll on those rocker studs and springs. And, even a mild roller cam needs more valve lift then these old stock heads can handle.
Usually when you retro fit a roller cam into a gen1 block you install a matched component kit. They also recommend screw in studs.
You still have the option to stay with a flat tappet cam. If you run the correct oil with proper zinc levels you will be fine. ZDDP sells the additive that can be added to any oil also.
The heads are not quite bone stock, but close. The springs are PSI High Performance and are rated for .55 lift with no problems. I do agree on the screw-in studs, and I'm a little miffed they didn't do that when I picked them up. I'll probably take it back down to get them tapped and prepped and then install them myself with guide plates.
The guy that owns the shop the motor is at is an old family friend I've known all my life. He's a retired ford mechanic and knows his motors, and he's old-school. He used to drill and pin, but I'm generally a lazy guy and would rather have someone else do the hard work, so I'll take them in for the tap work.
As for the roller lifters, it was by no means set in stone. I was just kicking the idea around as I liked the idea of less friction on these motors. To be honest I'll probably go the more traditional route, so no worries there.
Keep up the questions, like I said before I have a lot of catching up to do being out of the hobby for a long time.
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nicke
Contributor
Posts: 643

Age: 29
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Reg: 01-06-12
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07-25-12 09:43 AM - Post#2252030
In response to maddjeff
Good plan Jeff. The screw in studs are cheap insurance...
-Nick
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62sedan
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3355

Age: 62
Loc: North Dallas area
Reg: 08-12-02
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07-25-12 11:13 AM - Post#2252053
In response to nicke
Just realized I have the heads set on backwards. I just threw them on to see how it looked and ran a couple bolts on to hold them in place.
What?? How can that be.... they're identical. (Or was that a joke? )
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79

Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-25-12 12:46 PM - Post#2252071
In response to 62sedan
Just realized I have the heads set on backwards. I just threw them on to see how it looked and ran a couple bolts on to hold them in place.
What?? How can that be.... they're identical. (Or was that a joke?  )
Sorry, that joke was a touch too subtle... =)
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62sedan
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3355

Age: 62
Loc: North Dallas area
Reg: 08-12-02
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07-25-12 02:01 PM - Post#2252100
In response to maddjeff
That's cool. I pondered your statement before my reply, but wondered anyhow.
I'm a big fan of 327's, and am watching your build as you post updates. I like the cast (silver) paint and agree that it will look nice in a black engine compartment.
Maybe not as nice as Chev orange, but nice nonetheless. Here's to you for stepping up to be different.
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79

Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-25-12 03:13 PM - Post#2252116
In response to 62sedan
I'm a big fan of 327's, and am watching your build as you post updates. I like the cast (silver) paint and agree that it will look nice in a black engine compartment.
Maybe not as nice as Chev orange, but nice nonetheless.  Here's to you for stepping up to be different.
Thanks! =) If this was a full-on restoration I wouldn't hesitate for a second in putting on the ol' Hugger Orange, but this is going to be more of a resto-mod.
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50hotrod
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 383

Age: 56
Loc: Wisconsin
Reg: 07-25-11
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07-25-12 05:17 PM - Post#2252162
In response to maddjeff
Engine is going to look great!
A couple of things I want to run by you.
I see you are running the heads basically bone stock. I feel you're going to have problems down the line if you run a roller cam under this.
I realize you are not building a race engine but the steeper/quicker ramps of the roller cam is going to take a toll on those rocker studs and springs. And, even a mild roller cam needs more valve lift then these old stock heads can handle.
Usually when you retro fit a roller cam into a gen1 block you install a matched component kit. They also recommend screw in studs.
You still have the option to stay with a flat tappet cam. If you run the correct oil with proper zinc levels you will be fine. ZDDP sells the additive that can be added to any oil also.
The heads are not quite bone stock, but close. The springs are PSI High Performance and are rated for .55 lift with no problems. I do agree on the screw-in studs, and I'm a little miffed they didn't do that when I picked them up. I'll probably take it back down to get them tapped and prepped and then install them myself with guide plates.
The guy that owns the shop the motor is at is an old family friend I've known all my life. He's a retired ford mechanic and knows his motors, and he's old-school. He used to drill and pin, but I'm generally a lazy guy and would rather have someone else do the hard work, so I'll take them in for the tap work.
As for the roller lifters, it was by no means set in stone. I was just kicking the idea around as I liked the idea of less friction on these motors. To be honest I'll probably go the more traditional route, so no worries there.
Keep up the questions, like I said before I have a lot of catching up to do being out of the hobby for a long time.
Did the new valve springs come with collars and split locks?
Well, you know what's wrong with the world today
People done gone and put their Bible's away
They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land
"Simple Man" By Charlie Daniels
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79

Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-25-12 09:17 PM - Post#2252255
In response to 50hotrod
Did the new valve springs come with collars and split locks?
Yes sir!
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4dr 57
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2762

Loc: The Texas Hill Country
Reg: 11-10-04
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07-26-12 05:29 AM - Post#2252308
In response to maddjeff
Jeff -with regard to your interest in rollerized rocker arms; I just ran across an article in the Sept. HOT ROD Magazine on this very subject. Concerning a 327 no less!
I know there is a lot of experience here at CT, however I would also trust this report by Marlan Davis. It related not only to 1.52 and 1.5 roller rockers, he also talks about stock rocker arms along with the pitfalls of such a swap. Well worth the price of admission, and the timing of the article is Great, no?
Hope it helps.
Stanley
| Wife: "Don't race the Police car, Stan!" |
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79

Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-26-12 07:47 AM - Post#2252348
In response to 4dr 57
I'll go pick up the issue today! Figures it was Hot Rod, I get Car Craft & Super Chevy here at the house...
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SS_in_Seattle
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 1521

Reg: 05-08-03
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07-26-12 03:11 PM - Post#2252456
In response to maddjeff
Jeff,
Even without a beautiful Hugger Orange paint job, that thing is a vision of beauty. I'm thinking of putting a freshly built big block in my living room as a work of art !
Greg
1965 Impala SS L78
1966 Impala SS Convertible
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models916
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1938
Age: 62
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
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07-27-12 07:48 AM - Post#2252650
In response to SS_in_Seattle
The only advantage of floating pins on the pistons is for frequent disassemble and reassemble. The pin still floats in the piston, just not the rod.
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