maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79
Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-14-12 12:44 PM - Post#2248170
So I'm about ready to dig into this project in earnest and I have some decisions I need to make on just how I'm going to proceed. I thought it would be interesting to get some feedback from the rest of you as I'm still not quite sure which route I'm going to take based on the work environment I currently have to do this in. 
I'm renting our current house, and the garage is a typical "2-car" garage that is really only 1 car with some extra space. I do have a paved slab next to the garage as well that I currently have the car located on, under a decent Costco carport. It's one of those tarp-covered metal framed things, about 10x20. I bought it to keep the car covered over the winter while I figured out how to proceed, and it's been sitting in there since.
I'm currently getting the garage ready for the project, building some new workbenches, getting a compressor setup this week, etc. I don't have tons of room, but it will be adequate. However, I don't want hassles from the property management people by having an old stripped car sitting on the street all the time, so I've been really conscientious about keeping things covered/out of site, and plan to keep it that way as much as possible. I've got good neighbors, but just want to be sure I don't have an eyesore sitting around as the project progresses. So to sum it up, I have two work areas I can use, the covered carport next to the garage, and the garage proper.
At first my plan was to get the car together enough to get it running and drivable so I have the option to take it over to a friend's shop to work on the body/paint. He has a great 4+ car shop that has everything I need, but I can't just park it in a bay and leave it there for the next year or two as this progresses. So I thought I would prep/paint the engine bay, and then worry about doing the rest of the frame and body after the car was drivable.
However, I know I won't be happy with that, so I'm thinking about the pluses and challenges of a frame-off considering the constraints above. If I pull the body now with the motor/trans already out, it would be a pretty easy job of getting the frame cleaned up and painted myself this summer, along with rebuilding the front end suspension and getting the bottom stuff all done and taken care of. I'm doing everything I can myself to save as much money as possible, and the frame is in good shape as far as I know except for some surface rust from the wet winter.
It's really a no-brainer, except for the limited space issue again. Ideally, I think I want to build a body cart that will allow me to run the frame under the body when I'm not working on things. If built right, I could easily roll the body or frame into the carport when I want to work in the garage, or use the carport for sanding work, painting parts, etc. I've been looking at different plans/ideas online and have found a couple that should fit the bill.
Based on the ideas above, I think this is my plan of attack over the course of the summer/winter ahead:
- Get motor rebuilt and ready to drop in
- Pull body off frame
- prep and paint frame
- Rebuild front end and replace all frame bushings/mounts
- Prep/Paint/Powdercoat all engine bay parts (Inner fenderwells, firewall, etc)
- Prep/Epoxy Primer/Paint front clip (Inner/outer Fenders)
At this point I could then continue work on the body on the cart, or get the body mounted and drivable and then continue the body prep/paint at my leisure. I have to at least get the entire body sanded and epoxy primed to stop any more surface rust. I don't mind the rat-rod look for a little while until I can get it finished.
My apologies for the wall of text as I ramble on. It's more to get my thoughts down on (e)paper than anything else, but I would love to hear some feedback or other's experiences, as almost all of us don't have enough space/time/money as we need for these old projects. =)
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79
Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-14-12 02:30 PM - Post#2248188
In response to maddjeff
Here's a pic of the engine bay at the moment:
Frame rust looks worse than it is, it's just surface rust from this past wet winter. The rest of the frame is pretty free from rust, but I won't know for sure until I dig into it more.
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slammed1
Contributor
Posts: 673
Age: 42
Loc: Ark
Reg: 03-28-12
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07-14-12 02:45 PM - Post#2248192
In response to maddjeff
With the exception of me using the shop where I work we are both in sort of the same dilema somewhat.
I bought my car driving and planned on doing repair and maintence along with interior while driving and enjoying the car. I recently tore down the frt sheet metal to replace the rusted out rad support because it was pretty bad and caused the frt sheet metal to shake on bumps.
So now the sheetmetal and support are off,Im removing the non factory AC,and am going to buy all new body mounts and hardware while also detailing and fixing little issues with engine and trans,and since the body WILL be off the frame I will do as much as possible while its off. I dont ever want to pull the body off the frame again so I will do as much as possible while its off as to not have to do it twice.
I say if its not your daily driver and you have the funds,room,time and talent to have the body off the frame I say go for it.
Edited by slammed1 on 07-14-12 02:45 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Double Aught
Contributor
Posts: 126
Loc: SW America
Reg: 09-28-11
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07-14-12 03:38 PM - Post#2248206
In response to maddjeff
I am currently doing a body-on resto mod of my 68 SS. I have it in my garage on jackstands. If you work on this outside, keep in mind that you have to secure all of your tools every night and all the panels that come off. Taking off the body will allow you unfettered access to the top of the frame rails and a few spots through out that can't be accessed with the body on. Let tell you, if you are going to do this by yourself, you have allot of work ahead of you. I left the body on my car and I have gotten to all of the frame and floor pans with the exception of the very top of the frame and a few spots here and there. But it is very time consuming and I did all the work on my back. Needless to say, many days, my back and arms were very sore. Make sure to buy lots of wire wheels of all shapes and sizes for your drill and get a wire wheel for your grinder. That will take off the majority of the rust real fast. Some people who do body-off restos have the frame tanked or blasted then powder coated. Is that an option for you? Good luck with your project. Here is a link to my thread and pics,
1968 Impala SS Resto mod
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79
Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-14-12 05:21 PM - Post#2248223
In response to Double Aught
Double, just went through all your pics. Hell of a job you've done so far! I really do not want to do all this work on my back, which is one of the deciding factors on going to a frame-off. I figure I could get the frame done in about a quarter of the time if I have everything off/out and can work in the open.
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 62chevy427
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1499
Loc: laurens sc
Reg: 04-13-06
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07-14-12 08:34 PM - Post#2248269
In response to maddjeff
the only problem i have found with doing the frame and then the body is that all the dust,primer and paint will get on the frame and then one gets to do the frame again unless you can keep the frame and body separate until each one is done.
56 bel air ((since 2002)
62 impala ss (since 1965)
65 el camino (since 1969)
66 nova (since 1987)
67 malibu convertible (since 1981)
72 el camino ss454 (since 1985)
83 gmc 4wd (since 1991)
95 impala (new)
11 malibu (new) |
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Coalflyer
Contributor
Posts: 104
Reg: 01-19-12
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07-16-12 07:25 AM - Post#2248687
In response to 62chevy427
Every situation is different, for me I decided to take the body off the frame re do everything.. My goal was to make this car last as long as possible and it was important for me to know what I had under the body. I couldn't see putting a $5000 plus paint job on a car with a frame that was completely covered in surface rust. Then there's going to be the person (usually its my wife) that comes along and says you have too much money in your car. Both sides may be right, that's why it's a personal choice, as long as you have the space, time, money and tenacity to complete a project like a frame off restoration. For me I wouldn't change anything I've done to date!
I'm working out of a three car garage and am not overly concerned as to when I'm going to get finished. I also built a wooden cart with heavy casters that made moving the body around my garage very easy. I probably built the cart for less than $150. If you're interested I can tell you exactly how I removed the body from the frame, it's amazing what kind of problems you'll solve once you get started, this forum is an excellent place to ask questions and get great advice.
Good luck with your decision!
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-16-12 08:44 AM - Post#2248717
In response to Coalflyer
I agree with coalflyer.
I went frame off. lots to consider, one is space.
with no frame problems, that is probably the fastest thing to do.
You can always make a body stand that the frame will roll under if need be.
I crack up when I see a shiny car and look underneath at 45 years of rust and salt damage.
good luck. I have photos of the complete process too if you want to browse.
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79
Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-16-12 09:58 AM - Post#2248742
In response to Coalflyer
After thinking about the options over the weekend I think the frame-off is a no brainer and the direction I'm going to take.
Now to decide on a body cart design and get something fabbed up. The ability to roll the frame under the body is a must, as is the ability to move it around with one person as much as possible. Sounds like this week is going to be the "Get the garage ready for the project" project. 
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 427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12269
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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07-16-12 10:08 AM - Post#2248748
In response to maddjeff
I think you made a smart decision, Jeff. Cars of "our" age have many problems and a lot of them cannot be seen without removing the body.
Good luck and we're all here to help you!
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-16-12 04:52 PM - Post#2248865
In response to 427SS65
Jeff,
I would recommend looking around for street signs knocked over with the square strut.
Collect about 10 of them. Measure the front mounting points on the frame or get them from the assembly manual. you will double them up to get a mounting point for the front of the body. Depending on your garage, you could tie these into the structure of the garage or make a saw horse style setup. with the legs outside the car and then bolt the strut to the top of the horse.
As for the rear, I would recommend the same strut across the car at some body mounting points rear of the wheel well. I am assuming you have a hard top, otherwise you would be best suited to remove the doors and brack the whole frame.
Doubling or tripling the strut together with a mig weld should pretty much eliminate the flexing of the metal. It did in my case.
from what you are telling us, a rotisserie is out of the question. no way to roll the frame under a rotisserie.
I was going to rotisserie until I chose to replace complete floor pans.
front mounting point....
rear point (in the background). horse is orange.
or this...
Edited by leon phelps on 07-16-12 04:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79
Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-16-12 05:58 PM - Post#2248891
In response to leon phelps
Yeah, as much as I would love to throw the body on a rotisserie, I just don't have the room. And my garage is all sheetrocked, textured & painted so I can't hang anything from the rafters, etc. Like I said, this project is going to be interesting in this garage and is going to require some real organizational and project management skills.
Not sure why I'm complaining, when I got this car at 17 I was working at a family friend's shop on a dirt floor.  Getting spoiled in my old age...
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100% CHEVY
Very Senior Member
Posts: 5438
Age: 60
Loc: Helena,Missippi,U.S.A.
Reg: 12-09-04
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07-16-12 06:07 PM - Post#2248894
In response to maddjeff
You'll need at least 3 times the size of the car to do a frame off restore!
A place for the body shell,a place for the frame,and room for all the parts!Maybe a shed out back for the parts with access as you need them.
Then cabinets,workbench,and tools,tools,tools!
I guess you've already heard of the tag it/bag it/picture it system?Take notes too.
Gonna be a lot of fun!
Mike.
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-16-12 07:28 PM - Post#2248914
In response to 100% CHEVY
I have done my share of jobs on gravel also.
bag everything. I had the pleasure of a squirrel eating and taking my bags all over my outside shop. still finding bags.
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Double Aught
Contributor
Posts: 126
Loc: SW America
Reg: 09-28-11
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07-16-12 08:03 PM - Post#2248931
In response to leon phelps
My frame and floorboards had nothing but surface rust in some places and grease and grime over the rest. I found one nickel size hole on the passenger side floorpan to the right of the frame kick up. That was it. Another reason why the body on resto made sense for me.
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Brent
Member
Posts: 153
Loc: West. Pa
Reg: 02-17-05
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07-16-12 11:18 PM - Post#2248972
In response to Double Aught
Sounds to me like you have a car that is pretty clean and minimal rust? I think I would do a test run on the frame with a fine wire brush on a 4" electric grinder (watch they kick hard but work great and faster than waiting on air ) . If the junk comes off easy then just clean it up . Get a decent compressor that will run a little air drill tool that you can put the 1/4" shank wire wheels on to get the tough places and get fine and course wire wheels . Raise the car as far as possible , safely , and go at it . You can clean the under body also . Remember if you aren't using a rotisserie you gotta get under the body anyhow . When you get it all cleaned shoot some epoxy primer on it all and chassis black over that after you scuff the primer with scotch pads . I did a frame off on my Belair and it is time consuming HARD work either way . Good luck .
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Double Aught
Contributor
Posts: 126
Loc: SW America
Reg: 09-28-11
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07-17-12 06:02 AM - Post#2249011
In response to Brent
Is the epoxy primer a requirement? Sorry for the noob question.
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-17-12 10:06 AM - Post#2249082
In response to Double Aught
epoxy primer seals...regular primer makes metal sticky. if you do not pain soon after regular primer, dirt will get in the sticky metal.
if you do not plan on painting for a while, then you epoxy primer.
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79
Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-17-12 10:16 AM - Post#2249090
In response to leon phelps
That's what I'm planning on doing with the body on mine. I've got to get the body sanded and epoxy primed this winter, and then will probably run it that way for a bit while I deal with other stuff. Besides, rat rods are cool...
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maddjeff
Forum Newbie
Posts: 79
Age: 46
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Reg: 07-07-12
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07-17-12 10:22 AM - Post#2249092
In response to maddjeff
What's the consensus on the best way to coat the underbody these days? I've seen everything from paint to rhinohide to lizardskin. I was leaning towards getting it cleaned up well then maybe try the lizardskin sound and heat products.
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nicke
Contributor
Posts: 599
Age: 29
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Reg: 01-06-12
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07-17-12 10:25 AM - Post#2249093
In response to maddjeff
What's the consensus on the best way to coat the underbody these days? I've seen everything from paint to rhinohide to lizardskin. I was leaning towards getting it cleaned up well then maybe try the lizardskin sound and heat products.
I have heard good things about that product. Many people seem to really like it!
-Nick
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Double Aught
Contributor
Posts: 126
Loc: SW America
Reg: 09-28-11
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07-17-12 11:01 AM - Post#2249103
In response to leon phelps
Ooops. I didn't use primer on the areas where I replaced the body mounts. Am I going to have to remove that paint? Dammit! 
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Quik 71 SS
Forum Newbie
Posts: 20
Loc: Stuarts Draft, Virginia
Reg: 08-13-11
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07-17-12 11:35 AM - Post#2249114
In response to Double Aught
It's always best to prime,seal then paint.If you want it to last you really can't take short cuts....RB 
Randy
71 Camaro SS 355-700r-373's
63 Impala Sport Coupe 400 4speed |
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Double Aught
Contributor
Posts: 126
Loc: SW America
Reg: 09-28-11
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07-17-12 12:20 PM - Post#2249132
In response to Quik 71 SS
thanks.
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dave smith
Senior Member
Posts: 1981
Loc: Lancashire, England
Reg: 12-30-03
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07-19-12 11:22 AM - Post#2249911
In response to Double Aught
My project has stalled for the last few months, hope to get started again soon, just collecting funds, Rear axle rebuild is next job I reckon, then I can get the new global west rear suspension bits on. glad I went the fram off route though, here it is now, frame has been acid dipped and painted
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Double Aught
Contributor
Posts: 126
Loc: SW America
Reg: 09-28-11
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07-19-12 11:26 AM - Post#2249912
In response to dave smith
Nice job on that front end upgrade. You are fortunate to have the room to remove the body and keep it secured at the same time. Are you using drop spindles?
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dave smith
Senior Member
Posts: 1981
Loc: Lancashire, England
Reg: 12-30-03
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07-19-12 12:37 PM - Post#2249926
In response to Double Aught
Yeah the are drop spindles, I've got hotchkiss swaybars as well, Thinking of putting a newer camaro steering box on, I have one from an 84, from what I've read I will lose a little steering lock but get much firmer better feel, externally it's almost exactly the same apart from the size of the spline at the rag joint.
I wish I had more room, my work bench is just behind the body and it's a major PITA
Sharing the garage with my bros 72 Charger doesn't help either, That's behind as I took that pic
Edited by dave smith on 07-19-12 12:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Double Aught
Contributor
Posts: 126
Loc: SW America
Reg: 09-28-11
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07-19-12 01:14 PM - Post#2249941
In response to dave smith
What is the manufacturer of the drop spindles?
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dave smith
Senior Member
Posts: 1981
Loc: Lancashire, England
Reg: 12-30-03
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07-19-12 01:17 PM - Post#2249942
In response to Double Aught
Can't remember, I got them with the stainless steel brake kit, can't remember if they were part of the kit or not, it was ages ago!
haven't done much this year at all
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