Ol Dirty T
Contributor
Posts: 128
Loc: Michigan
Reg: 01-10-09
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07-08-12 06:56 PM - Post#2245879
Hello guys, I'm doing my first complete and I'm having a heck of a time with the metallic basecoat laying out to a smooth dull finish. Here are some particulars of my setup:
Omni MBC basecoat - burgundy poly, MR 186 medium reducer
Finishline gun, 1.3 tip, 30 psi at the gun.
I shot the base yesterday on my 1965 impala. It was pretty warm in the garage and realized after my second coat that I had a problem with uneven coverage. This car is huge and i had trouble comfortably reaching the entire roof. I knew the angle of the gun was off so i tried to adjust my technique. I made some adjustments to the gun. I shot 3 more coats overlapping 50% and making perpendicular passes to the previous pass. I even tried to fog a mist coat over the areas and this seemed to help.
Today, I thought maybe I should have used a slower reducer because the car was so big and i move so dang slow so I scuffed it with a gray pad and used MR 187 and shot three more coats minding my distance, speed and angle. It seemed to help but I still ended up with a dull/shiny mottled finish.
I shot the jambs already with the same gun and they look amazing. I'm beginning to look at the purple harbor freight gun on the shelf and wondering if I should give it a try. My Finishline gun isnt that old but I do notice some wear on the 1.3 needle.
Any tips on settings, speed, distance would be appreciated. Since I have about 8 coats of base (remember, this stuff is thin) will I have to sand it down with 600 wet and start over? Should I just sand until it levels out or do I have to go down to the sealer?
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YeniPenny
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5590
Loc: Biloxi, Ms
Reg: 11-26-01
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07-08-12 07:27 PM - Post#2245902
In response to Ol Dirty T
Based entirely on what I see in the pictures, you didn't spray it evenly enough nor wet enough. Keep in mind that when you first spray a basecoat, it will be nice and glossy like other paints. It's only after it has flashed that it goes dull. That's how you tell when you're ready for another coat...when all the gloss is gone. What I'm seeing is not metallic mottling in the true sense of the word.
Since I don't know how heavy you painted it, I don't know how much eight coats are. How much ready-to-spray base did you put on? Knowing that could help determine if you can get by with shooting another "proper" coat of base.
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 Vista Cruiser
Moderator
Posts: 4433
Age: 44
Loc: Erie Canal
Reg: 10-01-99
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07-08-12 07:47 PM - Post#2245906
In response to YeniPenny
Applying 90° could help too. Cross hatch pattern.
I'm not familiar with that base, but that's what PPG DBU would look like when it was applied. It always looked mottled. You always had to trust you did it right and clear it.
The best advice I could give to you right now is to find a painter who is familiar with that base to stop by any give a look, car/gun/environment. $100 for an hour or two of troubleshooting ect. Should do it. Much cheaper than buying more base.
If you do need to buy more, I can tell you PPG Global is hard to mottle, and water base is nearly impossible to mottle.
With solvent base, you can wipe pre cleano on the panel to "wet" it up so you can see if and to what degree of mottleing you really have. Obviously test it. I used PPG 320/330 and R-M 900/901 on many brands of base without problems. Slower (330/900) would be better for a good look.
Kenney AKA Blizzardboy
09 Impala SS....82 T/A.........72 Vista Cruiser
12 Cruze....98 Riviera...07 C-1500
68 Firebird
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Ol Dirty T
Contributor
Posts: 128
Loc: Michigan
Reg: 01-10-09
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07-08-12 08:35 PM - Post#2245930
In response to Vista Cruiser
I had a few dust nibs that I scotch brited with a gray pad and then I cleaned it with omnis wax and grease remover and it didn't look too bad. I just don't want to put too much base on. I sprayed about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 gallons of sprayable paint on so far. I did some research and I think I'm shooting too close and too slow.
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bowtieollie
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 20882
Loc: See the USA in your Chevr...
Reg: 12-06-99
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07-09-12 02:50 PM - Post#2246229
In response to YeniPenny
Yooo Yeni,
I agree, that is not mottling - it looks more like tigerstripes to me.
Reducer is too fast
Wet coat is not heavy enough
More overlap - although he identified this early on
One thing, do you think the 1.3 tip is too small for the material?? I think so - but every gun is different. 
Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator |
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 Rick_L
Honored Member
Posts: 24724
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
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07-09-12 03:00 PM - Post#2246239
In response to Ol Dirty T
Which Finishline gun do you have? I have a Finishline II and it needs 23 psi at the gun to get the recommended 10 psi at the cap. (Most HVLP guns require 50 psi.)
I'm no expert, and I've never shot that base, but it looks tiger striped to me - and that could be because the gun wasn't perpendicular to the panel as you described in your first post.
If you could build a scaffold to stand on, particularly for the roof, that my help you reach the center and still keep the gun square to the panel. It probably only needs to be a few inches tall.
If you indeed need less air pressure, you'll need to readjust your gun. This may end up giving you a more even pattern and that would definitely help with your tiger striping also.
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YeniPenny
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5590
Loc: Biloxi, Ms
Reg: 11-26-01
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07-09-12 03:51 PM - Post#2246271
In response to bowtieollie
One thing, do you think the 1.3 tip is too small for the material?? I think so - but every gun is different.
I can't say if it's too small or not. I've never used a tip that small.  Seriously, I agree that a 1.3 is too small. I have a 1.4 gun, but I have my SATA 2000 blasting out 1.7. When I pull that trigger, I want to see some paint come out.
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Vaughn
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 13552
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Reg: 08-08-04
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07-10-12 06:50 PM - Post#2246774
In response to YeniPenny
You have definite tiger striping. You need to overlap more on your passes - 75 percent at least.
You also need to shoot wetter coats, as others have said.
I'm not certain that you can solve your tiger striping by simply shooting at a right angle to your current pattern. You would have to really overlap your coverage to be able to hide your tiger striping. You may have to sand, prime and then shoot more color in order to really get rid of the tiger striping.
If you have shot that much material and gotten that poor of a coverage - then I would call into question your primer coat. A lot of first time painters just want to shoot color, and don't want to shoot a primer - sometimes they believe it will save them money. YOU NEED A SOLID PRIMER BASE, BECAUSE IT ALLOWS YOU TO SHOOT LESS COLOR WITH BETTER COVERAGE. Think of primer as a cheaper paint you use to stretch your expensive paint - you use primer to "fill out" the underlying surface, causing a better reflective surface to make your paint "POP" better when you spray it out. You NEED it, if you want a good paint job.
You should also thoroughly mix your paint - metallics need to be suspended in the paint really well in order for them to look good.
I would also go with a bigger tip - metallics (depending on the size of the flake) need a larger tip on the gun to shoot properly.
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Ol Dirty T
Contributor
Posts: 128
Loc: Michigan
Reg: 01-10-09
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07-10-12 08:12 PM - Post#2246802
In response to Vaughn
The tech sheet called for 1.3 - 1.5 tip. Here it is with 4 coats of Nexxa clear.
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brad_bb
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4190
Loc: Joliet, IL.
Reg: 07-13-01
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07-10-12 09:16 PM - Post#2246825
In response to Ol Dirty T
So is it as uniform/even as it looks in the photos? Will you be wet sanding the clear and buffing? You may need more clear for that?
| If someone else can design it, I sure as heck can figure out how to fix it! |
Edited by brad_bb on 07-10-12 09:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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wagonman100
Super Senior Member
Posts: 12937
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
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07-11-12 04:39 AM - Post#2246880
In response to brad_bb
Hard to tell from the pics, but it looks pretty good. Just a little orange peely. Which would be taken care of with wet sanding and buffing.
Jay
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon |
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Ol Dirty T
Contributor
Posts: 128
Loc: Michigan
Reg: 01-10-09
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07-11-12 10:24 AM - Post#2247012
In response to wagonman100
Yes, I looks quite even. There is a lot of orange peel in sections. I think four coats should be enough to wet sand and buff. What do you guys think?
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bowtieollie
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 20882
Loc: See the USA in your Chevr...
Reg: 12-06-99
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07-11-12 05:05 PM - Post#2247159
In response to YeniPenny
Yooo Yeni,
With a 1.7 you paint a Freightliner with one pass! 
But that is what I was thinking... 1.3?????
Too small for me - but that's what she said last night.
Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator |
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bowtieollie
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 20882
Loc: See the USA in your Chevr...
Reg: 12-06-99
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07-11-12 05:07 PM - Post#2247162
In response to Ol Dirty T
4 coates of clear is around 4mils.
I like 6mils of clear if I plan on colorsanding/buff.
Clear too thin? - UV will kill it in short order.
She sure did come out nice - how did you rid yourself of the Tigers??? 
Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator |
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Vista Cruiser
Moderator
Posts: 4433
Age: 44
Loc: Erie Canal
Reg: 10-01-99
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07-11-12 05:40 PM - Post#2247170
In response to bowtieollie
She sure did come out nice - how did you rid yourself of the Tigers???
X2!
Looks good! Please share.
Every job i've ever tried with a Sada (or knock- off) looks like that. 
Personally, i''m a Devilbus hoser. It can't go on to heavy for me.
Kenney AKA Blizzardboy
09 Impala SS....82 T/A.........72 Vista Cruiser
12 Cruze....98 Riviera...07 C-1500
68 Firebird
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