Hopper
Forum Newbie
Posts: 84
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 07-28-11
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 07-05-12 08:53 PM - Post#2244949
Hi all,
I'm back again for more of your great help. As stated many times before I have a 65 Chevy Impala convertible that has the original 283 block. I have tossed around the idea of a new 350 Crate from GM either pushing 350 or 385 HP with AC. I was wondering is it better to go with an engine out of a later model car or truck with the tranmisson/AC and computer instead. Lets say from a crash,
What Im looking for is dependability for driving and having AC of course. Not to mention at least 350 HP to move the 3600 LBS of car that I love. I mean the 283 is nice but it cannot move this car very well.
Let me know your thoughts on this and how hard it would be to swap out the engine for the newer one from lets say a 2005 to 2012 car or truck and which ne would be the best to go with.
Thank you
Dave
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Kamakazi620
Forum Newbie
Posts: 60
Loc: Portland Ore
Reg: 04-05-12
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07-06-12 12:15 AM - Post#2244972
In response to Hopper
How much $$$ are you looking to spend?? if it was my car i'd search for a 327 and rebuild it to the 350hp specs,if you want a New engine just buy a crate 350/350hp Don't go Fuel injected you'll waste alot of money tryin to put a 2000+ engine in.if you really want fuel injection find a running 87-92 iroc with a 350 (you should be able to pick up a beater for 1000-1800) and take the tuned port injection wiring and ecu and scrap the car to make some $$ back.
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 capricesport66
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1225
Loc: Lafayette, Louisiana
Reg: 11-02-03
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07-06-12 03:30 AM - Post#2244984
In response to Kamakazi620
Though I love a Big Block engine for a "Big Car", I'd suggest and LS based motor for dependability and for the power goal that you're looking for. Get the right combination going and you'll be worry free for as long as you have the car. With that said, having an LS motor in your car will look a little different when you pop the hood. Some people frown upon such a scene, and others marvel.
If original looks is something you'd like, build a stroker motor, say a 383 cubic inch engine and you'd like the pep that it would have to offer. But as mentioned, what's your budget for the engine project?
Gerald
Lafayette, La.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95648804@N08/
'66 Chevy Caprice 2DR HDTP 496/4L80e/3.73, 20's, Console, Buckets
'06 Chevy 2500HD 4x4 LBZ Duramax/Allison
'08 Toyota Highlander "Hybrid"
'99 VW Jetta TDI |
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 wagonmaster
Moderator
Posts: 8022
Age: 64
Loc: Loganville, Ga.
Reg: 04-28-00
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 07-06-12 04:12 AM - Post#2244987
In response to capricesport66
I AGREE, IT'S HARD TO BEAT AN LS BASED ENGINE. The 6.0 and 5.3 engines are out there in thousands of trucks, much less expensive than the LS1 Corvette Camaro variants and still make GREAT engines! If you can get the entire powertrain from a salvage unit, so much the better. FYI a 6.0 with a cylinder head and camshaft change made well over 550 HP in Hot Rod magazine a few months ago, check it out. A stock 6.0 would pill your Impala pretty well, with mods that you could do down the road, even better!
Good luck whatever you decide!
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 kwhizz
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 675
Loc: Wisconsin
Reg: 01-01-07
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07-06-12 05:03 AM - Post#2244996
In response to wagonmaster
Been there..........LS based Engine is the only way to go for trouble free driving......
Ken
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3048
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-06-12 06:03 AM - Post#2245013
In response to kwhizz
I also have an ls engine. between ken, wagonmaster (I thought he has an lt), and myself...we can help you lots.
My first recommendation would be to start looking for a 5.3 LS engine. Not sure if they are steel or aluminum blocks. Steel ones are more durable. Engine/trans/computer shoudl be about $1500 with less than 100k on the engine. These engines are getting close to 200k on them all the time. Check compression before you buy.
I added a psi harness for $500. You can modify yours for free. my original harness was missing a sensor wire, wound up selling it for $200 so I knocked the money off the new one.
Then you will need headers (unless you use a GTO setup like Ken). You could always notch the frame.
I see you are in NJ. I am right across the burlington bristol bridge if you ever want to window shop before your potential swap.
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ss3964spd
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3069
Loc: Fairfax, Va
Reg: 12-21-00
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07-06-12 06:59 AM - Post#2245032
In response to leon phelps
Dave,
While a late model engine, like the LS series discussed above, would be very nice and is very often done, that kind of swap isn't for the faint of heart. If you don't have the skills to do the work you'll have to hire the work out.
There is absolutely no reason an "old" style engine can't be stone reliable, make decent power, and run the A/C without breaking a sweat. People have been doing it for years.
Dan
Dan
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent. My ability to access it is not.
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 jumbojim
"2nd Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 315
Age: 66
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Reg: 09-25-11
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07-06-12 07:21 AM - Post#2245042
In response to Hopper
I think a big block more or less 'period correct' would match up with the Impala better. All the parts are available and they bolt right on. They make good power and torque, and the value of your Chevy will be higher, otherwise a 383 as mentioned earlier. To fit a late model fuel injected engine will require several modifications including probably cutting a hole in the fuel tank to fit the electric fuel pump, and a lot of wiring issues. Jim
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VintageCarryall
Member
Posts: 1585
Loc: Arizona
Reg: 10-08-06
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07-06-12 08:18 PM - Post#2245306
In response to jumbojim
Another option would be a 1987-95 350 TBI with matching 700R4 tranny. Stone simple to maintain; about 95% plug 'n' play and looks 'Old School' with its round air cleaner. 
I respect the LSx motors but; they leave me 'cold' for some reason and, to be blunt, they don't seem to last much over 200K miles whereas a 350 TBI can go an easy 300K or more. Another thing that turns me off about the LSx is they're like Honda 4 bangers; they run very well but interchangeability is bad unlike the Gen I motors (1955-2002).
1994 Dodge Caravan SWB 3.3L V6
1962 Studebaker Lark 4 door 350 Chevy/TH350
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3048
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-07-12 12:32 AM - Post#2245330
In response to VintageCarryall
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0504_chevy_ ls1_eng...
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 Johnny468
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 568
Loc: Richmond, Va.
Reg: 10-24-08
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07-07-12 06:20 AM - Post#2245363
In response to leon phelps
Here's my 2 cents:
I think the deciding factor in all this needs to be your personal level of mechanical ability. You need to be honest with yourself concerning what you are capable of doing on your own. The LS motor is a fantastic piece of engineering and I know the folks here that have done the swap are very happy with the drivability, reliability and power of their LS motors. But as mentioned above this is a highly complex upgrade that requires much more skill and knowledge than simply replacing your existing Gen 1 SBC with a larger, more powerful Gen 1 SBC. Personally I would recommend going with a large displacement Gen 1 SBC like a 406 and stay with a carburetor unless you really feel you are up to the task of tackling the complexities of an LS motor swap.
Hope this helps.
Johnny
1965 Impala SS
505/4-speed/4.30
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 wagonsouth
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 754
Age: 51
Loc: south AL
Reg: 10-25-09
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07-07-12 06:45 AM - Post#2245367
In response to Hopper
Another 2 cents - something else to consider, how long do you plan on having the car off the road for the swap? 350/383 swaps can be done over a weekend, where as the LS swap (and complete change over of wiring, fuel pump mounting, exhaust) may take longer.
When building the small block, consult your camshaft manufacturer of choice for their recommendations as to how you want the car to perform...daily driver or weekend cruiser?
To me a crate motor would be one of the best ways to go, GM motors come with a factory warranty.
Brian B.
1965 Bel Air wagon
cashmere gold over sunburst orange metallic
396, Comp Cams "small thumper"/700R4 w/2200 stall
2006 & 2012, 2013 Hot Rod power tour long hauler
2008 HHR "sunburst orange metallic" |
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Hopper
Forum Newbie
Posts: 84
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 07-28-11
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07-07-12 07:59 AM - Post#2245380
In response to leon phelps
WOW!!! A lot to consider here.
Dollar amount lets say 6000.00 Total.
Concerns: I'm looking for a house to buy with a 2 car garage since I live in a town house. So this means I may have to pay someone to do the swap for me. (Not terrible)
It will be driven a lot. I like to ride in the 65 often.
Thanks again.
Dave
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3048
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-07-12 08:29 AM - Post#2245384
In response to Hopper
the selling point for me is the fuel economy. you either pay now for the new technology, or you pay later for the fuel (that rarely goes down).
google and see what swap guys are getting for fuel economy and also see the hp gains and the weight drops.
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illstorm
Forum Newbie
Posts: 1
Reg: 02-25-12
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07-07-12 08:41 AM - Post#2245386
In response to Hopper
I to was wrestling with the idea of doing a LS1 swap in a 1966 Impala i'm building for my daughter. Dependability being A 1, but decided to stay with the 327. Figured 40+ years speaks dependability.
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slammed1
Contributor
Posts: 714
Age: 42
Loc: Ark
Reg: 03-28-12
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07-07-12 10:15 AM - Post#2245419
In response to illstorm
I thought I read somewhere that YearOne sells a GM crate motor with 400 hp and 400 tq to my memory for a very good price and they sell tons.Crate 383 would be a great choice too if thats the kind of engine your looking for. Yes the LS motors are great but just putting the engine in and doing a few small mods dont make it run. Kwhizz showed pictures and details of his build and the things you have to do from the gas tank to the heater hoses makes most do it yourselfers turn and run.
I would recommend a good crate small block or big block with pump gas friendly parts and you will be very surprised on how much you thought the 283 ran good compared to the new found power.
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427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12320
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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07-07-12 10:29 AM - Post#2245423
In response to slammed1
You don't drive these cars for fuel economy! If you're looking for economy, get a Prius.
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3048
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-07-12 10:40 AM - Post#2245428
In response to 427SS65
funny, my gas tank was a bolt on from a 1990 Impala and my heater hoses were the same ones that my 283 would have taken. both bolt on solutions. if I had my fuel line still on the car, I could have used it. keep spreading the fear mongering. I did have to cut the fill tube and bend it though.
the hard part has been done by several of us.
the fabrication was minimal, there are options if you dont want to do any.
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427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12320
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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07-07-12 10:44 AM - Post#2245433
In response to leon phelps
Hey, I'm just kiddin' ... 
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slammed1
Contributor
Posts: 714
Age: 42
Loc: Ark
Reg: 03-28-12
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07-07-12 10:53 AM - Post#2245438
In response to 427SS65
Sorry if I was spreading fear,I was just saying theres more to it than just bolting it in. The comment about fuel tank to heater hoses was an in general statement like saying from the "Floor to ceiling"
Im in no way against a LS swap as I am going to put one in my 72 Chevy truck.You guys that have already done them or are in the middle of one I respect,as I know whats going to entail doing mine.
Its all about either how much money,how much time,and/or how much talent the poster of this thread has because its going to take 2 of the three if not all three.
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3048
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-07-12 12:26 PM - Post#2245466
In response to slammed1
I honestly knew how deep I was getting into. when I crunched the numbers and knew how much I was going to use the car, it was a no brainer.
I know I can be a PITA, I asked everyone I knew. EVERYONE. Made some mistakes (like the LT1 debacle), a cracked block engine (luckily broke even after selling the accessories) and some other ones.
There is a reason these are the hot swaps today. They are lighter, have more hp, and get better fuel economy. I have spoken to several people with 300+ hp cars getting 25+ mpg highway. No way you are getting over 12 with a gen 1 block with the same hp. I know, you dont drive these for fuel economy, but my car will be just as fast as yours and will get the great fuel economy.
for $6k, I am sure a shop would do this whole swap for you.
Did I mention that my car had not gone over 220 degrees and the fan never kicked on in 200 plus miles of driving at a temp of 90 plus degrees outside? I had the fan tuned to turn on at 180 now and comes on ever five mins or so when in traffic. I remember that Hopper was overheating or so he thought. Gen III engines run hotter and at higher pressure coolant (18 vs 12).
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slammed1
Contributor
Posts: 714
Age: 42
Loc: Ark
Reg: 03-28-12
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07-07-12 01:57 PM - Post#2245497
In response to leon phelps
With guys like you,kwhizz and others taking pics and supplying info of the trials and errors it will help future LS swappers with installs.
I am most likely doing a 5.3 in my 72 truck but If I find a 6.0 or 6.2 I wont let it go. 
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3048
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-07-12 02:52 PM - Post#2245507
In response to slammed1
the 5.3 swap is the most bang for the buck. for half what I paid for the 5.7 you can have one.
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busterrm
Contributor
Posts: 999
Loc: Wichita Falls, Tx
Reg: 08-31-10
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07-07-12 04:30 PM - Post#2245519
In response to leon phelps
I agree with the old school guys, I think an old school motor will do the trick. You can install fuel injection to help with economy, using a engine management system to do all the ignition work. I have a friend with a built up 350 in his nova that has mpfi and it gets good mileage when he keeps his foot out of it.
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!
1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2005 Yamaha Vstar 1100 midnight custom |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1607
Reg: 12-29-02
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07-08-12 08:01 PM - Post#2245909
In response to leon phelps
If you're looking for a house, then wait until you close a deal and then do the work yourself over the winter. The only 2 choices I see are an LT1 or an LS series engine, especially if it's an auto. A properly tuned computer controlled trans works way better than anything with a valve body. The LT1 is decent for power and the LS series engines are even better. It really depends on what you find for cost, but it seems the 5.3L LS engines from the pickups are selling pretty cheap these days and one of those would work well for you.
Leon - now I want to know what your LT1 debacle was? Mine is working great. But then I had the engine sitting on a stand and the car needed an engine so it was an easy choice. I haven't done enough mileage testing to know exact numbers, but it's running somewhere over 20mpg on the highway.
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3048
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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07-09-12 04:30 AM - Post#2245991
In response to 65_Impala
bought an LT1 that had a blown head gasket. when you do the math to rebuild an LT1 properly, you will know why you dont want to walk away from one....you run. the parts (pistons, gaskets....were close to $2500 let alone the machine work).
also, an LT1 has the water pump over the engine ignition. if the pump leaks, you bought a new water pump and a new ignition. If I remember correctly, the igniton is about $1,000.
there is a reason they only lasted a few years in production...some dumb designs flaws.
also, drove 280 miles on the LS1 last weekend. 27 mpg.....hmmm
Edited by leon phelps on 07-09-12 04:31 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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capricesport66
"3rd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1225
Loc: Lafayette, Louisiana
Reg: 11-02-03
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07-09-12 05:03 AM - Post#2246004
In response to leon phelps
Excusing the 1 guy who is building the car for his daughter, but for everyone else, these cars are mostly hobbies for us. We enjoy taking these out of the garage every once-in-a-while to play. Fuel economy in my opinion is a bust unless you're planning on following the superchevy bus around all over the USA.
With a $6,000 budget for engine only sounds like someone is looking to make a nice upgrade. A nice small block stroker would work perfectly. He already has everything else in the car that would swap from the 283 or 350 to the newer motor. All of his accessories would work and absolutely no modification would be needed except for upgrading maybe the radiator.
For $6,000 and a little patience and sweat, he could easily do engine and tranny. And I'm talking a stout engine and tranny.
Gerald
Lafayette, La.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95648804@N08/
'66 Chevy Caprice 2DR HDTP 496/4L80e/3.73, 20's, Console, Buckets
'06 Chevy 2500HD 4x4 LBZ Duramax/Allison
'08 Toyota Highlander "Hybrid"
'99 VW Jetta TDI |
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jumbojim
"2nd Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 315
Age: 66
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Reg: 09-25-11
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07-09-12 05:18 AM - Post#2246012
In response to capricesport66
Makes sense to me. Jim
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1607
Reg: 12-29-02
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07-09-12 03:07 PM - Post#2246245
In response to leon phelps
LOL, I guess that's what happens when you buy one that has issues. They're not a bad engine except for the Optispark cost if or when it fails. A new one is either $250 for the cheap one or $380 for a better one or <$100 if you trust Ebay. And the newer style is sealed so the water pump leaking doesn't necessarily mean the distributor will be damaged. They were basically a test of some newer idea's such as the optispark for better timing control and the reverse coolant flow and the direct water pump drive to see if the pump would last longer. They were dropped because the big car production ended and the Vette moved to the C5 model with the LS1 engine.
There are enough trucks around now that 4800 and 5300 LS based engine pulls are getting pretty easy to find. A LT1 is fine to use but you gotta find a deal and need or want to save the cash.
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DOC396
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 547
Loc: ohio
Reg: 06-10-04
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07-09-12 04:44 PM - Post#2246289
In response to Hopper
well i guess i am old school? if you want a new car....go buy one. if you want a 65, well drive a 65. 283 or 327 move these cars around just fine. thats my story and i'm stickin to it. doc
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