Nthefamily
Forum Newbie
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Loc: North Ga.
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06-24-12 07:08 PM - Post#2240948
I'm replacing my intake gaskets on my 327 (edelbrock intake).
What are your opinions on using the front and rear rubber gaskets along with black rtv?
Use them or just use the rtv?
Do you use rtv on the intake gasket itself?
Any opinions will be appreciated.
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85 Silverado 4x4
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 62chevy427
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06-25-12 10:07 AM - Post#2241136
In response to Nthefamily
i would use either one or the other. usually i use the rtv.
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55chevy383
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06-25-12 10:24 AM - Post#2241141
In response to 62chevy427
Do not use the rubber seals, just use a good bead of sealant, the rubber seals tend to push out when tightening down the intake.
Phil
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 Rick_L
Honored Member
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06-25-12 10:51 AM - Post#2241150
In response to Nthefamily
Even the factory quit using the end seals in the 90s, in favor of silicone.
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awsum55
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06-25-12 02:39 PM - Post#2241204
In response to Rick_L
You might want to let it set up a little before you tighten it down.
Five things that you cannot recover in life:
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busterrm
Contributor
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06-28-12 05:57 PM - Post#2242381
In response to awsum55
Agree let it setup some before tightening down the intake.
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!
1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2005 Yamaha Vstar 1100 midnight custom |
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Rick_L
Honored Member
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06-28-12 06:15 PM - Post#2242392
In response to busterrm
I never have understood why that is recommended. And it's not the first time I've seen it.
But I'll bite on the bait and let you guys explain "why?".
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 aghaga
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06-28-12 06:42 PM - Post#2242406
In response to Rick_L
The bead of "semi cured" silicon will will create a small amount of resistance when bolting the intake down resulting in better surface conformatity. Also it will be more reluctant to smear out of position.
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Nthefamily
Forum Newbie
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06-28-12 06:53 PM - Post#2242411
In response to aghaga
Thanks for the info.
I'll use straight rtv and no rubber gaskets. This time around I want skimp on the sealant.
Do I need to use any rtv or cement type sealer on the intake gasket itself? I was thinking about putting it around the water jackets??
65 C10
85 Silverado 4x4
92 S10 |
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aghaga
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06-28-12 07:04 PM - Post#2242415
In response to Nthefamily
A thin film won't hurt anything but if the surfaces are smooth and flat it should not be needed.
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Rick_L
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06-28-12 08:01 PM - Post#2242434
In response to aghaga
"The bead of "semi cured" silicon will will create a small amount of resistance when bolting the intake down resulting in better surface conformatity. Also it will be more reluctant to smear out of position."
Yeah sure, but what about the bond to the manifold? You have to be sacrificing that.
Seems to me that a properly applied bead of silicone, coupled with lowering the manifold straight down into place, gives you the best bond. Anything else sacrifices some bond strength.
I guess the real question is how long can you let it cure and have some resistance to "moving around" vs. the bond/seal. I think it's a slippery slope.
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motorman
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06-28-12 09:23 PM - Post#2242450
In response to Rick_L
i alway rub a thin layer of RTV onto the intake and block surface first and then i used a bead of RTV. this way you will know that the metal surfaces are "wet" with RTV and will bond together.
| retired race engine builder,former NASCAR tech inspector. new corvettes owned 1959,1962,1963,1964,1965, 1966,1997,1999,2002,2005, 2008 plus 30+ other chevy cars and trucks along the way |
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FleetsideLarry
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06-29-12 05:28 AM - Post#2242533
In response to Rick_L
... but what about the bond to the manifold? You have to be sacrificing that.
if you let the silicone cure first before setting the manifold down, then yes, I'd think so.
if you run a bead, set the manifold down into it, then wait 'til the silicone cures before tighening down I'd think you'd have the best of both scenarios
Edited by FleetsideLarry on 06-29-12 05:38 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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aghaga
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06-29-12 06:52 AM - Post#2242564
In response to FleetsideLarry
I agree that installing the intake while the RTV is wet will form a better bond/rubber-glue joint on both surfaces. From my view we are asking the RTV to form a seal between the block and intake. By letting the RTV skin cure, no longer tacky to the touch, we are creating a thin release agent to the intake surface. This is an advantage in the future as you will not have to tear the RTV to remove the intake. While the RTV will not "bond/glue" 100%, as compared to the block, it will adhere sufficient to form a leak proof seal in this application.
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Rick_L
Honored Member
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06-29-12 10:59 AM - Post#2242633
In response to aghaga
And you really believe all that?
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motorman
Super Senior Member
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06-29-12 11:16 AM - Post#2242636
In response to aghaga
i have also found that a cork seal that was supplied by some after market gaskets worked well.
| retired race engine builder,former NASCAR tech inspector. new corvettes owned 1959,1962,1963,1964,1965, 1966,1997,1999,2002,2005, 2008 plus 30+ other chevy cars and trucks along the way |
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aghaga
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06-29-12 11:51 AM - Post#2242646
In response to Rick_L
Rick, You asked the question, I did not know you were baiting for an argument. I stated my opinion based upon my usage of RTV in the industrial power industry. I have tested applications from below freezing conditions to the extreme heat of boilers. I have used it as a sealer at times and as an adhesive other times depending on the application. You are entitled to disagree but you asked the question. Sorry my answer did not meet your expectations.
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Nthefamily
Forum Newbie
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Loc: North Ga.
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06-29-12 12:22 PM - Post#2242658
In response to aghaga
Thanks aghaga again for that information, and it met my expectation to the "T".
65 C10
85 Silverado 4x4
92 S10 |
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aghaga
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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06-29-12 12:49 PM - Post#2242669
In response to Nthefamily
Your Welcome
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Rick_L
Honored Member
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06-29-12 05:01 PM - Post#2242750
In response to aghaga
"I have used it as a sealer at times and as an adhesive other times depending on the application."
It appears that you are trying to use this stuff like a gasket or o-ring, squeezing it. I don't think that works unless it's either mechanically contained (like a proper o-ring is), reinforced (like a composite gasket), or fully bonded.
I'll put my faith in the bond.
Even if the gasket doesn't blow out (and it probably won't on an intake end gasket), it can still leak between the silicone and metal if it's not bonded.
Sorry for being argumentative, I asked hoping for a reason to buy into the semi-cure usage. I didn't hear one yet that I buy into.
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mokicruz
Senior Member
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06-29-12 05:57 PM - Post#2242771
In response to Rick_L
Large gear Boxes in mining have machined surfaces mated instead of gaskets. We quit using RTV going to 50 year Silicone Calking due to the faster dry time of RTV causing it to leak. 50 year Silicone gave us 2 extra hours of assemly time without worrying about leaks. Timing a Gear box some times takes a couple atempts so RTV would be pulling apart by the time we finished while the silicon remained tacky.
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busterrm
Contributor
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06-30-12 11:20 PM - Post#2243185
In response to Nthefamily
Thanks for the info.
I'll use straight rtv and no rubber gaskets. This time around I want skimp on the sealant.
Do I need to use any rtv or cement type sealer on the intake gasket itself? I was thinking about putting it around the water jackets??
Use the black high temp silcon type.
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!
1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2005 Yamaha Vstar 1100 midnight custom |
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busterrm
Contributor
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06-30-12 11:23 PM - Post#2243187
In response to mokicruz
This is my method, I clean the surface of the china walls with a acetone based solvent. With the surface dry and clean, I take a centerpunch and put centerpunches randomly all over both china walls. I I put the rtv silicon down in about a 1/4 tall and the width of the china wall. I let it setup long enough to get a little stiff. Then after it has setup on the china walls, I apply a small amount around the water jacket ports. Put the intake on carefully, push down slightly to compress the silicon on the china walls. Let it sit for about 15 minutes then tighten down the bolts in sequence. Let it sit overnight at least for curing purposes. Cross my fingers, I have never had a leak, not once!
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!
1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2005 Yamaha Vstar 1100 midnight custom |
Edited by busterrm on 06-30-12 11:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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busterrm
Contributor
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06-30-12 11:30 PM - Post#2243190
In response to busterrm
Nthfamily, there are several schools of thought on this subject, most assuredly they all work. Each person uses what works for their application, I use my method that has not failed me, and others use their own. You have to choose which method will work for you and do it. Its just that simple, ignore all the bickering and arguing, just do what you think will work best for you.
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!
1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2005 Yamaha Vstar 1100 midnight custom |
Edited by busterrm on 06-30-12 11:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Nthefamily
Forum Newbie
Posts: 86
Loc: North Ga.
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07-03-12 01:45 PM - Post#2244082
In response to busterrm
Busternn thanks for the info.
Well I cleaned the surfaces and used the black stuff without skimping on material.
I believe it's going to work and if so, that's the method I'll use from now on.
Live and learn guys!
65 C10
85 Silverado 4x4
92 S10 |
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models916
Frequent Contributor
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07-03-12 02:43 PM - Post#2244094
In response to Nthefamily
You should lay the intake manifold on the engine without any gaskets and see if the fit is perfect. If it is high on the front and back surface, it will squeeze out the rubber or cork gasket. Deck surfacing and differences in head gaskets make all this variable. If it lays flat at all four sides, it can't squeeze out the end gaskets, unless you are using a mis-matched set.
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busterrm
Contributor
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07-03-12 10:31 PM - Post#2244274
In response to models916
You should lay the intake manifold on the engine without any gaskets and see if the fit is perfect. If it is high on the front and back surface, it will squeeze out the rubber or cork gasket. Deck surfacing and differences in head gaskets make all this variable. If it lays flat at all four sides, it can't squeeze out the end gaskets, unless you are using a mis-matched set.
Agreed, I always test fit them with the gaskets off to see where its low or high. then adjust with the silicon accordingly.
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!
1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2005 Yamaha Vstar 1100 midnight custom |
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