 someotherguy
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Loc: Texas
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06-22-12 06:17 PM - Post#2240302
This is in my house I've been in for about 2 months now, house was built in 2006. Has numerous GFCI outlets throughout, but also has "plain" outlets that are marked "GFCI protected" with a sticker, and you can see the breaker box has special breakers presumably on those circuits though I haven't bothered to see if the legend correlates.
Anyway I've got a single outlet in the garage which has the actual test/reset buttons, and have my IR compressor plugged into it. It worked fine at first but all of a sudden it's tripped and won't reset, even with nothing plugged into it.
Not experiencing power problems anywhere else in the house that I've noticed yet unless it's an unused outlet that has caused an issue and forced a trip on the garage outlet because it was "faster."
From what I've heard, the outlet itself being defective isn't very common...so before I swap it out, what could I check?
Richard
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 wagonman100
Super Senior Member
Posts: 12943
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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06-22-12 08:35 PM - Post#2240362
In response to someotherguy
Will the outlet just not reset, or does it trip again as soon as it is reset. If it will not reset, it is probably a defective outlet. If it were a problem with something else on the circuit tripping the outlet, it would more than likely trip the breaker as well.
Jay
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
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someotherguy
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06-22-12 08:44 PM - Post#2240364
In response to wagonman100
When attempting to push in the "reset" button it just comes back out instead of catching. Tried numerous times with no luck. Then of course...went out there just now, a day later, and it works... 
Richard
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 acardon
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06-22-12 09:27 PM - Post#2240376
In response to someotherguy
It may be that an outlet outside the house is protected by that GFCI and it got wet.
Don
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someotherguy
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06-23-12 05:59 AM - Post#2240416
In response to acardon
That's kind of what I was thinking, and I've seen that happen before somewhere else - but both outdoor outlets here are well-protected by those clamshell plastic boxes that completely seal them up. It's kind of puzzling.
Richard
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droptop62ss
Senior Member
Posts: 225
Loc: rochester ny
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06-23-12 06:00 AM - Post#2240417
In response to acardon
I've seen GFI's be defective right out of the box .
also they don't last forever either .I just replaced one for a friend about a month ago.
he had one that was tripping all the time.
Andy
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Vaughn
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
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06-24-12 08:26 PM - Post#2240982
In response to droptop62ss
Someone has been messing around with your outlets.
It sounds like the previous owner put in additional GFCI outlets. This is wrong, and is very bad violation of the electrical code. Most homeowners think that there should be a GFCI outlet near EVERY water source (like a sink) in the house - when only one GFCI outlet is necessary per circuit.
ONLY ONE GFCI OUTLET should be on any circuit, regardless of other conditions. If you have more than one GFCI outlet on a circuit, the GFCI outlets will "fight" each other - causing the other GFCI outlets on the circuit to trip. If you try to repeatedly reset the circuit breaker in the GFCI outlet when there is already a GFCI active on a circuit, it can and will burn out the romex on that circuit - forcing that wire strand to be replaced to get the circuit working again.
I have run into this several times before, where a homeowner has installed more than one GFCI outlet - and I have had to pull new Romex to get the circuits working again because the wiring was burnt out.
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 A White Sport Coupe
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 116
Reg: 08-19-10
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06-27-12 03:47 PM - Post#2242038
In response to Vaughn
Hello guys,
One GFCI recepticle protects all of the regular recepticles wired in series after it. That's why a regular recepticle may be marked "GFCI protected".
So only one GFCI per circuit preferably wired first in the circuit.
Bob
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someotherguy
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07-04-12 08:32 AM - Post#2244392
In response to A White Sport Coupe
Vaughn & Bob -
I'm pretty sure that's what is going on, that someone has added GFCI outlets in a circuit that is already protected by a GFCI breaker. It would make sense to me that the outlets around the house that appear normal but have stickers on them marked "GFCI protected" (presumably by the breakers) are original, and these outlets with the GFCI built-in have been added on.
I'm not too concerned about a burnout situation yet as this seems to be a very intermittent issue. Once I left the problem outlet alone for a day, then went back to reset it, it's been fine since. It will probably behave this way for a few weeks before it acts up again.
The things I'm using on them aren't necessarily suspect; I think there is a "fight" scenario happening. Once I have some time to kick some breakers and confirm what outlets are on the same circuit, I'll probably go back in and replace the outlets with new standard units, which I already have a nice shiny box of, as I tend to buy them by the pack. Seems like every time I go somewhere new the outlets have issues - usually though it's a shop setting where the outlets are physically destroyed. This is a slightly different problem here at this house. 
Thanks for the replies,
Richard
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BB Biscuit
Senior Member
Posts: 423
Loc: Washington
Reg: 03-30-02
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07-25-12 12:41 AM - Post#2251926
In response to someotherguy
If the house was built in 2006 you should have several GFCI receptacles in the house.
2 minimum in the kitchen for the 2 receptacle circuits that feed the counter tops.
1 for the bathroom receptacles ,will be located in one of your bathrooms and will protect the receptacles in the other bathrooms also.
1 minimum in the garage and should protect any additional receptacles in the garage and probably any exterior weather proof receptacles.
You may have more depending on the house and local codes
If you have any dedicated receptacles in the garage like a freezer. it may or may not have GFCI prtection.
If I had to Guess, The special breakers that you see in the panel are probably Arc Fault breakers that protect the general branch circuits. These are different than GFCI protection.
To see what additional receptacles are protected by each GFCI receptacle.
Get a plug in style receptacle tester, They are fairly cheap at the local hardware store.
With all the breakers on and all of the GFCI receptacles reset check all of the receptacles in the house. After you have verified that they are all working. Start in the kitchen.Press the test button on one of the counter top GFCI receptacles. Verify with your tester that it is off. Then check the rest of the kitchen and dinning room receptacles. At the least half the kitchen counter should be off. Then test the other GFCI receptacle. Now the other half of the counter should be off. The only receptacle that should stay on is the refer.Your Dinning room may or may not be affected. Reset the GFCIs. Repeat the process on the bathrooms and the garage. Keep in mind one of the GFCIs in the house will also protect the outside plugs so test them also.
This will help you in tracing problems in the future. The GFCIs are the first receptacle on a circuit and protect any additional receptacles down stream. You will probably find that when you do your testing all of the receptacles that have the stickers on them are protected by one of the GFCI receptacle. That is the way it is supposed to be.
Once you have the circuits figured out. If it trips again make sure nothing else is plugged in to one of the down stream receptacles that are on the same circuit.Old twisted are frayed cords are never good.
Sorry for the long winded answer.
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Edited by BB Biscuit on 07-25-12 12:45 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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OldGuy
Contributor
Posts: 121
Reg: 06-05-07
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11-11-12 04:42 PM - Post#2288224
In response to someotherguy
SomeotherGuy
do I have this correct?, that the circuit breaker box has the GFCI as (say a 20 amp fused breaker) a circuit (lets say to your garage) and then the actual receptacle is a GFCI with reset? First of all make sure that the breaker in the panel box hasn't tripped, reset it. If the Outlet GFCI has also tripped reset it. If the outlet keeps tripping, replace it, as said earlier they fail :-(
Old Guy
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someotherguy
Moderator
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11-23-12 08:10 AM - Post#2291414
In response to OldGuy
The breaker box has some of the breakers as GFCI units, but not all of them. I haven't mapped out the circuits to see which all are the ones protected by the box-mounted GFCI. Then, some of the outlets throughout the house are GFCI pieces too; including the one in the garage that is giving me the trouble.
Currently it's behaving so I haven't replaced it yet though I intend to. Yesterday for example I was working on the wrecker and had all 6 wheels off, using lots of impact, so the compressor ran quite a bit and the outlet gave me zero trouble. Go figure...
Richard
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cloudmaster
Senior Member
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Loc: Arrowsmith, IL
Reg: 01-30-02
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12-04-12 10:25 PM - Post#2295122
In response to Vaughn
ONLY ONE GFCI OUTLET should be on any circuit, regardless of other conditions. If you have more than one GFCI outlet on a circuit, the GFCI outlets will "fight" each other - causing the other GFCI outlets on the circuit to trip.
Ok, I know this is an old post, but it bugs me. 
Lots of people "know" this to be the case, but no one ever explains why. All a GFCI outlet does is measure the current flowing through the hot and neutral and ensure that all the power going in is accounted for on the way back. It's not magic; it's a differential transformer. If it was dangerous or even bad to hook two up in a row, all those new hair dryers with GFCI plugs would have a warning not to use them in bathrooms - which are required by code to be GFCI protected. But they don't. Why?
The reason you don't put two in series is really for nuisance prevention (and partially to avoid wasting expensive materials). There's no guarantee that the closest outlet will trip first, so the end-user will have to search through multiple locations trying to find the place where power was interrupted if something does trip. That's it; it's inspired by the "GFCI must be in accessible location" rule.
If you try to repeatedly reset the circuit breaker in the GFCI outlet when there is already a GFCI active on a circuit, it can and will burn out the romex on that circuit - forcing that wire strand to be replaced to get the circuit working again.
I have run into this several times before
If turning power on and off a few times burns up wire, there's something else wrong, and indecisive people with lights in their refrigerator had better watch out.  Now, it could be that something was wrong and a device (possibly a cheap outlet with those annoying spring termnals, possibly a crummy appliance) which was leaking current to the safety ground. But most likely, what's happening is that some old wire actually leaks current through the insulation, which would both cause GFCIs to trip and, in some cases, burn up the wire. Someone who doesn't know this could see the multiple GFCIs and make the assumption that the outlets were to blame, when really it's just the long run of poorly-insulated wire - probably in combination with high-draw kitchen or bathroom appliances. Hair dryers, curling irons, mixers, toaster ovens, etc.
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