Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-21-12 07:41 AM - Post#2239767
Man, so I still havent got the 51 started back up. I found the ball, lined it up perfectly. Noted where the distributor cab finger was pointing and set the number 1 coil right on top of it. Then set the coils to 1-5-3-6-2-4 put a little gas in the carb, and nothing at all. Not even a "kind of" starting sound.
Today Im going to check and make sure Im still getting a spark, but wanted to get some more ideas from you as far as things I might be overlooking etc. This way I'll have a couple things to try today when I get home. So let me know what else I may need to check on.
Thanks guys, I really want to get this ole girl going so I can cruise in her this summer 
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
Edited by Mike_51_Deluxe on 06-21-12 08:07 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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 2blu52
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13080
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06-21-12 09:28 AM - Post#2239800
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
It takes, Air, Fuel, and Ignition to make an engine run. Air is not normally a problem. I would start with the ignition check the points, are they opening. Is there spark at the points as they open. If so check for spark at the plugs. Rotate the engine by hand with plugs out and check points for spark at #1 with both valves closed (rockers should move freely) If you have spark and the ball is lined up with the pointer on the bell housing then you should be good to go ignition wise so then it is a matter of making sure there is fuel there when the points open. Now if you have spark or power at the coil and to the distributor cap tower, it may be the condensor. Let us know what happens. By the way you are calling the distributor cap towers, Coils which is not correct. If you are priming the engine by putting gas in the carb throat you must replace the air cleaner prior to attempting to start. If you do not then a back fire can cause you lots of trouble. 
"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"
THOMAS JEFFERSON |
Edited by 2blu52 on 06-21-12 09:30 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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cederholm
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1309
Age: 46
Loc: Brooklyn NY
Reg: 09-28-10
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06-21-12 10:01 AM - Post#2239808
In response to 2blu52
It takes, Air, Fuel, and Ignition to make an engine run. Air is not normally a problem. I would start with the ignition check the points, are they opening. Is there spark at the points as they open. If so check for spark at the plugs. Rotate the engine by hand with plugs out and check points for spark at #1 with both valves closed (rockers should move freely) If you have spark and the ball is lined up with the pointer on the bell housing then you should be good to go ignition wise so then it is a matter of making sure there is fuel there when the points open. Now if you have spark or power at the coil and to the distributor cap tower, it may be the condensor. Let us know what happens. By the way you are calling the distributor cap towers, Coils which is not correct. If you are priming the engine by putting gas in the carb throat you must replace the air cleaner prior to attempting to start. If you do not then a back fire can cause you lots of trouble.
I'm with Blue 100% ....and make sure you're timing isn't 180 deg out - happen to me before.
~ Carl
Carl E. Cederholm
Brooklyn NYC
'53 Deluxe MoreDoor, triPPPle Rochesters, Fenton exhaust, dual Porter mufflers, 3" drop, 12v, and Offenhauser shinny bits! |
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arnieg141
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 6084
Loc: nj
Reg: 10-06-08
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06-21-12 10:24 AM - Post#2239810
In response to cederholm
did you put the roter back in cap? i've seen that a lot.the flat part should be pointed direct at #one with plug out and piston to top
| GET ER DONE .. AS I GET OLDER I LIKE FAST CARS I CAN STILL DRIVE. AND VERY SLOW WOMEN I CAN CATCH while still able..arnie garrison |
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 Keith_Knox
Moderator and "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2731
Age: 71
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
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06-21-12 10:52 AM - Post#2239817
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
What did you do to it since it last ran?
1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010.
1996 Chevy Monte Carlo
2002 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab
2013 F150 Crew Cab |
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-21-12 12:35 PM - Post#2239838
In response to Keith_Knox
Okay, I will go through all this when I get home. The distributor spins Clockwise correct? I could see that being an issue lol.
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
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arnieg141
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 6084
Loc: nj
Reg: 10-06-08
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06-21-12 02:19 PM - Post#2239860
In response to arnieg141
did you put the roter back in cap? i've seen that a lot.the flat part should be pointed direct at #one with plug out and piston to top mike good way to get top center on #1 is pull coil wire /pull #1 plug hold you flat thumb over hole have some one just lightly tap starter and let off till it"s compression blows your thumb from plug hole
mike if you had the distrubter out. if you did and is not just as is said above your 180 degree out
| GET ER DONE .. AS I GET OLDER I LIKE FAST CARS I CAN STILL DRIVE. AND VERY SLOW WOMEN I CAN CATCH while still able..arnie garrison |
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-21-12 04:00 PM - Post#2239892
In response to arnieg141
Never took the distributer out, just the cap off to see where the trigger deal was so I could line it up. Anyways Im home now, so its time to get this gurl going. Ill update ya soon~!
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
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arnieg141
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 6084
Loc: nj
Reg: 10-06-08
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06-21-12 04:37 PM - Post#2239908
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
| GET ER DONE .. AS I GET OLDER I LIKE FAST CARS I CAN STILL DRIVE. AND VERY SLOW WOMEN I CAN CATCH while still able..arnie garrison |
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 davidchristopher
"4th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1660
Age: 42
Loc: Saint George, Ontario, Ca...
Reg: 08-02-09
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06-21-12 05:57 PM - Post#2239939
In response to cederholm
I'm with blue too. Tell you a little story... I put a new distributor on the sbc in mine last year- and for the life of me I couldn't get it to fire. SO... air, fuel, spark right?
I know I had air, because my cigar was still lit.
I know there was fuel going to the carb because I had clear lines, and I could smell the gas. So I put out the cigar.
That left spark. Put my spark tester on it and confirmed it.
I chased my wiring all over hell and back. Swapped out a perfectly good coil for another one, redid my plug wires... and it turned out to be the locator pickup coil on my distributor (points on your distributor). I had forgotten to gap it after I put installed the vacuum advance, so it simply wasn't telling the coil to fire.
3 hours chasing ghosts, 2 seconds to fix, 1 lesson learned.
So... check your distributor!
It takes, Air, Fuel, and Ignition to make an engine run. Air is not normally a problem. I would start with the ignition check the points, are they opening. Is there spark at the points as they open. If so check for spark at the plugs. Rotate the engine by hand with plugs out and check points for spark at #1 with both valves closed (rockers should move freely) If you have spark and the ball is lined up with the pointer on the bell housing then you should be good to go ignition wise so then it is a matter of making sure there is fuel there when the points open. Now if you have spark or power at the coil and to the distributor cap tower, it may be the condensor. Let us know what happens. By the way you are calling the distributor cap towers, Coils which is not correct. If you are priming the engine by putting gas in the carb throat you must replace the air cleaner prior to attempting to start. If you do not then a back fire can cause you lots of trouble.
I'm with Blue 100% ....and make sure you're timing isn't 180 deg out - happen to me before.
~ Carl
1951 Chevrolet Styleline Special. (350 4 Muncie '55 Driveshaft CE crossmember Heidts Mustang II front suspension, 3:10 Posi)
The '51 Chevy Blog
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brokenhead
Contributor
Posts: 162
Loc: seattke
Reg: 12-10-11
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06-22-12 03:30 AM - Post#2240071
In response to davidchristopher
if you have put in a new rotor, make sure it is tall enough, they aren't all the same. I had this problem and it turned out the NEW rotor that came with my NEW distributor didn't reach the contact in the cap.
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2blu52
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13080
Age: 79
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
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06-22-12 05:14 AM - Post#2240091
In response to davidchristopher
I'm with blue too. Tell you a little story... I put a new distributor on the sbc in mine last year- and for the life of me I couldn't get it to fire. SO... air, fuel, spark right?
I know I had air, because my cigar was still lit.
I know there was fuel going to the carb because I had clear lines, and I could smell the gas. So I put out the cigar.
That left spark. Put my spark tester on it and confirmed it.
I chased my wiring all over hell and back. Swapped out a perfectly good coil for another one, redid my plug wires... and it turned out to be the locator pickup coil on my distributor (points on your distributor). I had forgotten to gap it after I put installed the vacuum advance, so it simply wasn't telling the coil to fire.
3 hours chasing ghosts, 2 seconds to fix, 1 lesson learned.
So... check your distributor!
It takes, Air, Fuel, and Ignition to make an engine run. Air is not normally a problem. I would start with the ignition check the points, are they opening. Is there spark at the points as they open. If so check for spark at the plugs. Rotate the engine by hand with plugs out and check points for spark at #1 with both valves closed (rockers should move freely) If you have spark and the ball is lined up with the pointer on the bell housing then you should be good to go ignition wise so then it is a matter of making sure there is fuel there when the points open. Now if you have spark or power at the coil and to the distributor cap tower, it may be the condensor. Let us know what happens. By the way you are calling the distributor cap towers, Coils which is not correct. If you are priming the engine by putting gas in the carb throat you must replace the air cleaner prior to attempting to start. If you do not then a back fire can cause you lots of trouble.
I'm with Blue 100% ....and make sure you're timing isn't 180 deg out - happen to me before.
~ Carl
Understand that I am not admitting any thing but just about every one has a rotor story they can tell. 
"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"
THOMAS JEFFERSON |
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cederholm
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1309
Age: 46
Loc: Brooklyn NY
Reg: 09-28-10
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06-22-12 08:25 AM - Post#2240144
In response to davidchristopher
I know I had air, because my cigar was still lit.
I know there was fuel going to the carb because I had clear lines, and I could smell the gas. So I put out the cigar.
Now THAT should be in the workshop manual! 
3 hours chasing ghosts, 2 seconds to fix, 1 lesson learned.
So... check your distributor!
EVERY time I've had a MAJOR issue like this it was something small and stupid. From my distributor being out 180 to the power lead falling off the coil without me knowing.
I'm sure your issue is small it's just a bugger to find it.
~ Carl
Carl E. Cederholm
Brooklyn NYC
'53 Deluxe MoreDoor, triPPPle Rochesters, Fenton exhaust, dual Porter mufflers, 3" drop, 12v, and Offenhauser shinny bits! |
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 Dean50
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 684
Loc: Michigan
Reg: 01-02-07
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06-22-12 09:11 AM - Post#2240162
In response to cederholm
Once spent quite a while trying to get started after routine tune up stuff replacement. Checked and rechecked everything. Turned out plug wires were in order but got put in the wrong holes. Number one was not in number one. Moved them over one hole and it fired right up, of course.
Duh. That's why I always used to change the wires one at a time.
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-24-12 01:06 PM - Post#2240806
In response to Dean50
I didnt have enough time to really tinker with it, but still didnt get it started. Lined the ball up, piston was TDC, and I put the plug wires on 1-5-3-6-2-4
Heres where the issue may be. I dont fully understand the distributor. So when the engine is at tdc I had the dist. cap off so I could see where the little brass dealy is. So then I noted that on the cap, and made sure that is where I started with my pug wires, #1 being over the brass dealy.
Am I missing something here? It cant be at 180 because the brass dealy would be on the other side of the distributor right? And I believe its always been at about 10-11 0clock if your looking at it from the passanger fender.
Anyways, Im pretty sure its something stupid that I just dont get yet, but with your help we can figure it out. Ill try to get a pic of the dist. cap off
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
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bobg1951chevy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4887
Loc: Ellijay, GA
Reg: 02-18-08
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06-24-12 01:47 PM - Post#2240817
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
The brass dealy you refer to is the "rotor".
I have reread all of your posts concerning this issue, I believe you have NOW placed your wires 180* out, based on this post that you had written.
"Sooooo, I pulled the plugs and rotated the engine, couldnt see the ball anywhere, so I used a feeler to find TDC on the first cylinder, once I felt that out, I was able to see the ball. So I lined that up with the point. Then pulled the distributor cap, and my number one cylinder was on the opposite side of where it whould be. So I then pulled all the plug wires and put them in order, starting with the number on where the distributor point was. 1-5-3-6-2-4. Tried turning her over, and couldnt get her to fire, however the battery died pretty quick.
DId I miss some steps or something?"
When you felt the piston with the feeler on #1 cylinder and inspected the wires and repositioned them all, you were most likely on #6 TDC, not #1.
There was no need to reposition all the wires, for the car did run before you did all the repositioning of the wires. Engine will not run 180* out.
Pull coil wire out of distributer cap and coil.
Pull #1 plug. Put your finger over #1 plug hole, but not IN #1 plug hole.
Have someone crank engine , in short spurts, until you feel a puff of air against your finger. You are now on #1 compression stroke .... now get the ball to align ... with short taps on the starter.
Once that is completer, pull cap, see where rotor is pointing and reposition your wires in sequence.
Put cap back on, reinstall coil wire, you should now be in correct sequence and on #1 cylinder.
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-24-12 02:13 PM - Post#2240828
In response to bobg1951chevy
Okay, I think Im with ya now. For some reason I thought the rotor should be at the 11 Oclock, but your saying it may need to be at the 5'Oclock and that would be #1 if your Looking at it from the fender.
I only changed the wires because I thought they were wrong, but should have marked where they were before. lol.
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-24-12 02:15 PM - Post#2240830
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
Googled it, and this would be my issue lol. plug wire for cylinder #1 is 180 across from where I currently have it.
Thanks guys, I know you mentioned this already, I just wasnt getting it because Im stupid lol.
Hopefully I have time today to switch these out.
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
Edited by Mike_51_Deluxe on 06-24-12 02:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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2blu52
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13080
Age: 79
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
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06-24-12 03:11 PM - Post#2240845
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
Okay, I think Im with ya now. For some reason I thought the rotor should be at the 11 Oclock, but your saying it may need to be at the 5'Oclock and that would be #1 if your Looking at it from the fender.
I only changed the wires because I thought they were wrong, but should have marked where they were before. lol.
Following the manual description for installing the distributor the roto will normally end up around 5:00.For Clarities sake the brass dealy you refer to is the Rotor.
"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"
THOMAS JEFFERSON |
Edited by 2blu52 on 06-24-12 03:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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bobg1951chevy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4887
Loc: Ellijay, GA
Reg: 02-18-08
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06-24-12 03:47 PM - Post#2240865
In response to 2blu52
In this case, the distributor was not removed from the engine, only the wires were repositioned.
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-24-12 04:17 PM - Post#2240884
In response to bobg1951chevy
Youll have to bear with me on the part names, Im not a mechanic 
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
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2blu52
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13080
Age: 79
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
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06-24-12 05:27 PM - Post#2240909
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
Youll have to bear with me on the part names, Im not a mechanic
Most of us aren't mechanics either.
"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"
THOMAS JEFFERSON |
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-24-12 05:45 PM - Post#2240914
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
She's alive!
Man, what a brain fart on my end. Thanks guys.
Get her to sputter and start, but then died, and my battery didnt have enough juice to get her back up again.
Going to costco to get a new 6 volt. Mine is wayyyyy gone. Been on the charger all day and still didnt have enough juice for 3 starts.
So hopefully Ill have a new battery soon and this ole girl will be dialed in!
Thanks everyone. Im getting back into "Fix the 51 mode" so Im sure ill be on here a lot more!
Have a great Sunday!
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
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bobg1951chevy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4887
Loc: Ellijay, GA
Reg: 02-18-08
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06-24-12 09:08 PM - Post#2241001
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
OK, what fixed it, swapping the wires back or what?
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bobg1951chevy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4887
Loc: Ellijay, GA
Reg: 02-18-08
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06-24-12 09:10 PM - Post#2241002
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
Youll have to bear with me on the part names, Im not a mechanic
Reading the manual in your spare time will get you all the right names for all the right parts. Good luck
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-24-12 10:34 PM - Post#2241022
In response to bobg1951chevy
Litterally just switch all the wires to the opposite side, I was 180 out.
I know I know, I need to read the manual, but my A.D.D makes it hard to read a menu let alone a 60 year old, black and white, boring censored book with awful pics. Plus if I read it then I would have a reason to talk with you guys
Going to be really excited at work all day to get home, get that new battery I KNOW that i need, and get this ole girl dialed in.
Stay tuned
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
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bobg1951chevy
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4887
Loc: Ellijay, GA
Reg: 02-18-08
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06-24-12 10:41 PM - Post#2241023
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
Litterally just switch all the wires to the opposite side, I was 180 out.
I know I know, I need to read the manual, but my A.D.D makes it hard to read a menu let alone a 60 year old, black and white, boring censored book with awful pics. Plus if I read it then I would have a reason to talk with you guys
Going to be really excited at work all day to get home, get that new battery I KNOW that i need, and get this ole girl dialed in.
Stay tuned
Well that's good news! You saw it through and that is what counts.
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arnieg141
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 6084
Loc: nj
Reg: 10-06-08
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06-25-12 05:03 AM - Post#2241053
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
Litterally just switch all the wires to the opposite side, I was 180 out.
I know I know, I need to read the manual, but my A.D.D makes it hard to read a menu let alone a 60 year old, black and white, boring censored book with awful pics. Plus if I read it then I would have a reason to talk with you guys
Going to be really excited at work all day to get home, get that new battery I KNOW that i need, and get this ole girl dialed in.
Stay tuned
mike don't feel bad after all the yrs. of messing with cars.i still mark my wires with tape as 1-2-3-4-5-6 from # 1 plug front to back so i can't get them mixed,,,and on distruter cap i use an alw and scratch them the same order of wires/i did it with v8 cars also.i'ts just me in my mind it was easyer. and it came from my very early yrs. of not haveing the manuels or computers around.and after all these yrs. only change one wire at a time.even thow i can read there fireing order..glad you got it
| GET ER DONE .. AS I GET OLDER I LIKE FAST CARS I CAN STILL DRIVE. AND VERY SLOW WOMEN I CAN CATCH while still able..arnie garrison |
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Mike_51_Deluxe
Contributor
Posts: 343
Reg: 09-15-10
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06-25-12 08:07 AM - Post#2241103
In response to arnieg141
Thats a really good call arnie! Im the same type of person, I like it clean organized and fail proof. Obviously this time I dropped the ball lol. Getting that battery today, and hopefully gettin the ole girl going today. Gotta take the oil pan off as well and clean it up as i believe the pan might have a lot of gunk in it possibly clogging the screen. Dont want to wreck this engine.
| Life's too short, do what makes ya happy and transcend the bull$$$hit |
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 18inchapes
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 331
Age: 45
Loc: Jackson, NJ
Reg: 10-18-08
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06-25-12 01:53 PM - Post#2241192
In response to Mike_51_Deluxe
Make sure the battery terminals are real clean, ANY voltage drop with the 6 volt system, and the car won't crank fast enough. Ask me how i know...... LOL Jeff
1952 Chevy hardtop
1932 Plymouth PB 3 window coupe
1940 Willys sedan
1964 Chevy II SS
1966 Pontiac GTO hardtop
Jeff |
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