musicalboats
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06-08-12 08:52 PM - Post#2234978
Just got a 1953 Chevy 210, with a 235.
Want to old school hot rod it, like maybe how one might in the 50's and 60's.
Keeping the 235. Suggestions for engine/etc modifications? Was told to get Fenton headers or something similar and a dual carb set up.
New to the car world, looking for suggestions to look into, but don't know where to start.
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dsacton
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06-08-12 10:50 PM - Post#2235009
In response to musicalboats
Howdy,
Many years ago, a buddy of mine took a 53 (pickup) and kept the original engine---except for boring out the cylindars, a high-duration cam, and a 650-dual feed, double pumper Holey carb, and eldebrock manifold. Ran great! Go for it!
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 2blu52
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06-09-12 05:40 AM - Post#2235053
In response to musicalboats
The question is what 235 do you have in the car? If you have a manual 3 spd with the original engine then you have an early 235 which is not as good a prospect for hot rodding as the Blue Flame ffull pressure that was in the 53 equipped with the Power Glide. I would answer the question first then look for the means to create more performanc. 
"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"
THOMAS JEFFERSON |
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Happy Belair
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06-09-12 06:00 AM - Post#2235055
In response to musicalboats
cam, exhaust, duel carb and maybe some chrome.
if your looking for ture old school.
These blocks can be stroked but not that much to gain for a streeter.
There is a book from the 50's that is currently available called
"How to hop up Chevrolet and GMC Engines" by Roger Huntington Copyright 1951.
Its got some great old school tricks both on the cheap and for high dollar track car racing.
Hope that helps
54 Belair 1067DTX, Roman red 327 Turbo350
54 Belair Hardtop, just bod off frame,work in progress
54 210 Station wagon Father in laws pass me down |
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musicalboats
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06-09-12 09:32 AM - Post#2235108
In response to Happy Belair
Hey,
Thanks for all your suggestions.
Yeah, its not a Blue Flame - a Thrift King I think.
Don't really mind that its not the best hot rodding prospect. If I wanted more I would probably just put a new engine in, but decided that since I bought a car with a running engine might as well keep it. Not going to be winning any races or setting records in this car, just something to drive as much as I can and have a blast.
I will look into what you guys have suggested. Any particular brand preferences worth looking into? Something half way decent?
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fbama73
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06-09-12 09:35 AM - Post#2235112
In response to musicalboats
Agree with the dual (or triple) carbs, dual exhaust and cam. That's pretty much all I'm going to do to my full pressure 235 that's going into my '51.
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motorman
Super Senior Member
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Loc: south western pa.
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06-09-12 09:39 AM - Post#2235114
In response to 2blu52
The question is what 235 do you have in the car? If you have a manual 3 spd with the original engine then you have an early 235 which is not as good a prospect for hot rodding as the Blue Flame ffull pressure that was in the 53 equipped with the Power Glide. I would answer the question first then look for the means to create more performanc.
just look at the oil pressure gauge and if it shows more that 30 PSI you have the full pressure system.
| retired race engine builder,former NASCAR tech inspector. new corvettes owned 1959,1962,1963,1964,1965, 1966,1997,1999,2002,2005, 2008 plus 30+ other chevy cars and trucks along the way |
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 6-bangertim
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
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06-09-12 12:34 PM - Post#2235160
In response to musicalboats
Before you get started with hop-up parts, take a compression test with the engine warm and the throttle blocked open. There won't be much to gain with low or uneven compression. The 216/ early-235 never had much to start with, around 6.8:1 if I recall.
If your readings are more than 10% between high and low, tune it up the best you can and drive it STOCK!!! Start thinking about another engine to build with a 3/4 cam, dual intake, pocket-porting the intakes.
The '55 and later 235's are your best bet, as they start with 8:1 compression, full-pressure oiling, and are a drop-in swap except for the water pump (too long). BUT - THEY ARE NOT A CHEAP BUILD!!! The Fenton's and most dual intakes will interchange between the 216 and 235.
Your BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK would be a 292 truck six, with a open driveline, 4 or 5-speed trannie. There is no replacement for displacement, parts are cheaper and more available.
Better to FOCUS ON WHAT THE CAR NEEDS right now - Brakes? Steering and suspension? Wiring? Seat belts? Think SAFE AND DEPENDABLE, then go on to HOT ROD mode.
BUY A 1953 SERVICE MANUAL - several vendors sell them, best $$$ you'll ever spend!!!
IMO, with a 216 or early 235, I would just go with Fenton's and dual pipes built with flex pipe, shorty Cherry Bombs...cool sound on the cheap!
Welcome to CT and congrats on the car!  Pics??? Do a search of my posts and you'll see that I'm kinda fond of these ol' turds!!! 
Good Luck, Tim
Too Poor to Restore...My Nifty 150!
Proud owner of MISS NOVEMBER - 2011 Tri-Five Calender
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brokenhead
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06-09-12 02:08 PM - Post#2235197
In response to 6-bangertim
one of the best intakes (I have heard anyway, I would buy one myself if I didn't already buy two twin carb intakes) is the 4 barrel manifold from clifford, howards has cams, camcraft, patricks also have cams, Howards will grind you whatever you want on one. possibly camcraft too, the fella was very nice.(at camcraft) he grinds the cams for kanter and egge. just be careful what you get for intakes and headers, fentons headers don't really fit with much of anything but the stock intake and fenton intakes, some say clifford intakes will fit, but the guy at clifford says you will have to grind to fit his intakes to fenton headers so I'm not sure who to believe.
Edited by brokenhead on 06-09-12 02:14 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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musicalboats
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06-09-12 05:04 PM - Post#2235240
In response to 6-bangertim
Hey everybody
Thanks for all the suggestions, nice to hear responses...
I will look into those different companies.
Didn't take a compression test yet. Will probably get around to it, but hadn't yet since it seems to be running pretty okay right now. I am sure it could use a tune up, just based on its history and age.
My boyfriend had suggested the 292, but if I was going to go through the time and expense of engine swaps, I would probably just go for something big at that point. But my goal isn't to have the biggest fastest car on the block, it stands out enough as is... And the deal was since it was able to be driven home, and to work and such, no engine swaps unless this one blows up. Might save a little money that way... we hope...
I was asking just to get a feel for what would be involved - this is definitely down the road abit, wanted to familiarise myself with it all, keep an eye on ebay and such. Not in "hot rod" mode yet, no fear.
Came with its service manual, already been in heavy use.
Probably just going to put in the dual carb, new intakes, and dual pipes.
Don't really understand how to put up photos... but did take a bunch today!
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brokenhead
Contributor
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06-09-12 05:19 PM - Post#2235249
In response to musicalboats
you can spend a lot of money quick on these.
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musicalboats
Forum Newbie
Posts: 15
Reg: 05-19-12
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06-09-12 05:31 PM - Post#2235253
In response to brokenhead
haha. for sure. But I figure keeping the same engine takes a little bit out of it. I hope? haha. As long as the rent gets paid at the end of the month...
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 Keith_Knox
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06-09-12 08:08 PM - Post#2235295
In response to musicalboats
Posting pictures.
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?ti...
Also if you become a supporting member you can post direct from your post
1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010.
1996 Chevy Monte Carlo
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brokenhead
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06-10-12 06:18 AM - Post#2235364
In response to musicalboats
that is a maybe on that part, I got about $4000 into an inline, probably have 130 horsepower, but it sure sounds good. I know I have more power than RPM, I really need to get the gears in the rear end. Either way, I would rather spend extra money on my little engine than a small block, I mean anyone can do that. If I were to change engines I would use a 302 GMC they can be made into monsters, I have seen articles where they were getting 900 horsepower, true it was with a 12 port head injecting alcohol. But they do run well nonetheless.
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musicalboats
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06-10-12 10:04 PM - Post#2235642
In response to brokenhead
900 horsepower!!!! Whoa! I don't even think I can imagine what that would be like...
Oh yeah... will try and figure out the picture thing.
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 Panama Red
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
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06-11-12 06:00 AM - Post#2235710
In response to musicalboats
musicalboats, if you want some pics and reading on how to hop up a 235, take a look at my blog. I'm no expert but you may get some good ideas on what you want to do. I'm running Fenton "headers", Clifford intake w/390cfm holley, Comp Cams cam, an 848 head and Pertronix ignition. The engine made nearly 150hp on the dyno and gets over 17.5 m/g with a 3.36:1 rear end from a 57 Chevy and a T5 tranny. She purrs like a kitten!
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DEEDDUDE
Forum Newbie
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Loc: Beach City, Texas
Reg: 11-06-11
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06-11-12 06:57 AM - Post#2235727
In response to Panama Red
I’m very disappointed in my Clifford intake. Brand new had a crack at the 5/6 port. Casting is of poor quality as is the machining. For $400 you would except a better product.
After repairs and installation it does run really well though. Running a Holley 4412 (500 cfm 2 barrel) and headers, no camshaft change yet.
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Panama Red
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
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06-11-12 09:34 AM - Post#2235786
In response to DEEDDUDE
I’m very disappointed in my Clifford intake. Brand new had a crack at the 5/6 port. Casting is of poor quality as is the machining. For $400 you would except a better product.
After repairs and installation it does run really well though. Running a Holley 4412 (500 cfm 2 barrel) and headers, no camshaft change yet.
How new is your Clifford? When I was trying to buy mine from them in Nov of 2010, they were out of stock and Clifford was changing foundries. Seems the old foundry had been bought out by a South American Conglomerate and Clifford's new supplier wasn't fully tooled up yet. I found mine from a dealer in Wash or Oregon (I forget)and all he had was the polished manifold. I like the way it looks. It was worth the extra money IMO.
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6-bangertim
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
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06-11-12 09:50 AM - Post#2235796
In response to Panama Red
Red, what are the specs on your cam?
- Tim
Too Poor to Restore...My Nifty 150!
Proud owner of MISS NOVEMBER - 2011 Tri-Five Calender
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fbama73
Contributor
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06-11-12 11:25 AM - Post#2235820
In response to 6-bangertim
PanamaRed, I'm also interested in those cam specs.
Especially since I'm going with a 235 and the 57 Chevy rear with 3:36 gears.
And I really like the car and blog. I subscribed to it.
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DEEDDUDE
Forum Newbie
Posts: 27
Loc: Beach City, Texas
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06-11-12 11:31 AM - Post#2235822
In response to Panama Red
I’m very disappointed in my Clifford intake. Brand new had a crack at the 5/6 port. Casting is of poor quality as is the machining. For $400 you would except a better product.
After repairs and installation it does run really well though. Running a Holley 4412 (500 cfm 2 barrel) and headers, no camshaft change yet.
How new is your Clifford? When I was trying to buy mine from them in Nov of 2010, they were out of stock and Clifford was changing foundries. Seems the old foundry had been bought out by a South American Conglomerate and Clifford's new supplier wasn't fully tooled up yet. I found mine from a dealer in Wash or Oregon (I forget)and all he had was the polished manifold. I like the way it looks. It was worth the extra money IMO.
Red, mine is an older unit. I think the model number is 4300-C. I had to build a heat plate for it. The newer ones have bungs for the hot water. Mine has an area on the bottom where you could bolt one up. I couldn't find what I needed so I built one out of some 1" aluminum plate.
When I get time I would like to polish mine also, it would get rid of all the casting marks.
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Panama Red
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
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06-11-12 01:49 PM - Post#2235875
In response to DEEDDUDE
Ok, cam specs. Comp Cams part #60-000-5. CAUTION! My block is a 53 so it uses the small bearing journal cam. Don't order by part number unless yours is the same year. Later years use a larger journal cam. Also, mine is a hydaulic but I won't use a hydraulic cam in one of these motors again. The lifters available are junk! Mine clatters on cold startup because the lifters bleed out just sitting. I talked with Comp Cams tech dept last week and they ok'd installing solid lifters on this cam set at .008-.010" valve lash. I've done this before on a small block in a drag race car and we made it work perfectly.
Ok, cam specs, I got side tracked. Intake lift .463/Exhaust .469. Duration @ .006 lift: intake 261/exh 275. Lobe center: 110 (installed at 106 as recommended using offset crank key). I'm also using Comp Cams valve springs. Valve to piston clearance is tight so check things close.
This cam has a nice lopey idle and lots of low end power. We actually pulled 5000 rpm on the dyno but stopped making power at about 4600. I'm thinking the lifters were holding it back. My engine idles at about 550-600 rpm. It's amazing how many folks think it's a small block from the idle sound - that is until the exhaust barks during 2nd gear accelleration! lol
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6-bangertim
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
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06-11-12 02:10 PM - Post#2235886
In response to Panama Red
Thanks Red! How about duration at .050" lift?
Sounds like a really good cam. I'm looking for one for a 261 build, in the planning stages... 
Take Care, Tim
Too Poor to Restore...My Nifty 150!
Proud owner of MISS NOVEMBER - 2011 Tri-Five Calender
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Panama Red
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 481
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06-11-12 02:22 PM - Post#2235892
In response to 6-bangertim
Ah yes, I forgot that Tim is a true afficiando of engine specs. Duration @ .050 int 218/exh 224.
Edited by Panama Red on 06-11-12 02:23 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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musicalboats
Forum Newbie
Posts: 15
Reg: 05-19-12
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06-11-12 11:01 PM - Post#2236070
In response to Panama Red
Hey Panama,
checked out the blog, neat looking car! Will def. take some more time and read through all the back entries.
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musicalboats
Forum Newbie
Posts: 15
Reg: 05-19-12
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06-11-12 11:16 PM - Post#2236072
In response to musicalboats
Okay, I started a flickr account:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80165091@N05/? uploade...
Here are two of the photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80165091@N05/7 1792080...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80165091@N05/7 3644384...
(It might be worth it to mention that I recently got a new camera, and had a little bit too much fun with the filters setting... hence the old school look. The car looks better that way lol. Will try and put up some regular photos soon. It is the light green/sea foam color, with the dark green for dash, steering wheel trim, etc. I want to paint it a dark crimson with an ivory top, matching interior.)
-Melanya
Okay, bamboozled. I still can't seem to put photos up, just the links. But atleast I am half way there...
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Panama Red
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 481
Age: 65
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06-12-12 05:48 AM - Post#2236115
In response to musicalboats
Hey Panama,
checked out the blog, neat looking car! Will def. take some more time and read through all the back entries.
Thanks. Looks like you've got a solid piece there. Have fun with it!
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jaydogg1
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06-12-12 10:06 AM - Post#2236201
In response to musicalboats
Great Pics 
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Keith_Knox
Moderator and "10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2734
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06-12-12 11:12 AM - Post#2236224
In response to musicalboats
Great pics. Is that a stock air cleaner?
1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010.
1996 Chevy Monte Carlo
2002 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab
2013 F150 Crew Cab |
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6-bangertim
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1868
Age: 55
Loc: El Cajon, Calif.
Reg: 11-30-08
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06-12-12 12:31 PM - Post#2236256
In response to Panama Red
Red, THAT looks like the dual-pattern cam I've been looking for. I LIKE the idea of advancing the cam 4 degrees, moving the power band down for more bottom and mid-range grunt!  How high is your vacuum? How many PSI do you get during a compression test?
With power discs on my '57, decent vacuum is a factor. I have a good "848" head with the intakes pocket ported, but hate to cut the head for more compression. I'm thinking that advancing the cam helps pick up DYNAMIC COMPRESSION. I will 0-deck the block to reduce quench at least.
I've been reading your blog - WELL DONE!!! I also have a cracked 848 head, fully ported 35 years ago. I just need a shop in SoCal that can weld it up - cracked above a water jacket. ALWAYS good to have a spare head!
THANKS again Red!
- Tim
Too Poor to Restore...My Nifty 150!
Proud owner of MISS NOVEMBER - 2011 Tri-Five Calender
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