Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 12:21 PM - Post#2234398
Some of you may remember my trials with a restoration shop and my 63 impala. I finally just went and picked it up several months ago after 3 years of waiting. I took a little break from it, and found a more reputable shop (a little closer by) and dropped the car off a few weeks ago. I found out this week that the guy that had the car before didn't brace the car when he took the doors off and cut off the entire rear of the car, so it is all twisted up. The restoration shop said they could fix it, but it would be cheaper to buy another car and start over. I'm sitting here with all of these impala parts, and no intention of giving up now.
I found this car within a couple of hours ride and plan on going to see it tomorrow. It has all the things I want (floor shift, bucket seats, factory a/c, etc) and needs things I have (hood, door, etc). The restoration shop gave me a list of things to check and if it fails, walk away.
I thought I would post the pics I have to the board to see if you guys spot anything "out of the ordinary" or areas I should check. Seller says it's an SS, but doesn't know if the numbers match. I noticed the respray (paint on cowl tags), the instrument cluster has been changed (no a/c vent) and the dash pad has been recovered (I think, never seen one like this). Anything else of note in the pics? BTW, car is listed for $3500, which is a bit much for a rust bucket but factory a/c SS's can't be that common...
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 62BillT
"11th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4620
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
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06-07-12 12:50 PM - Post#2234407
In response to Cyque
I would check the Chassis real good. Bring a Floor Jack and some Jack Stands with you. Also check the Floors and Trunk real good along with all the nooks and crannys especially on the underside. I can't really see the Cowl Tag too good, but it will tell if it's an SS. If it is a real SS, not only is the AC Vent gone, but the Tach is also gone. If you like it, give it another thorough check over by checking any possible place for rust. I would also take out the Back Seat.
If it doesn't run, make sure the Engine turns. Also check the Pad to make sure it is a real 327.
Even if you like it, I would be making a lower offer.
Keep us posted.
Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 01:00 PM - Post#2234408
In response to 62BillT
Yeah, that's what I figured happened to the housing, someone took it for the tach. So, this car would have definitely had a tach if a true SS? I have a factory tach/air housing to put right back in there though, so it's not a huge deal (took me a while to find that one).
Looking back at an older ad I found for the car, the seller is claiming numbers matching, must be confusing my thoughts that he wasn't with one of the 100 other cars I contacted. Two ads on the car below:
Original 1963 Chevrolet Impala SS. True numbers matching SS with bucket seats and console. Dual exhaust (250hp)327 powerglide, P.S., P.B., original A/C car. Paint code 936 (ermine white) Trim code 812 (black buckets) Needs full restoration and some panel replacement. Was running when parked.
1963 numbers matching true Impala SS. True Super Sports are hard to find. Project car. Needs full restoration and some panel replacement. Was running when parked due to U-joint. 250hp 327ci, powerglide. Paint code 936 (ermine white) Trim code 812 (black vinyl bucket seats) ACC code GKM (console, A/C, Powerglide) Only TRUE Super Sports have trim code showing factory installed bucket seats. Super Sports were an option package from '61-'63
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 01:15 PM - Post#2234414
In response to Cyque
Things I notice looking at the ads: I don't see a power brake booster, although I assume PB means power brakes.
Also, what are the odds this thing has a Posi rearend? Were those just an option, or is there some scenario where they are more likely to be found?
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Richard Martin
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4311
Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
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06-07-12 01:21 PM - Post#2234418
In response to 62BillT
"but the tach is also gone"
The 327/250/Powerglide or 4-speed didn't come standard with a tach even if the car is a SS. Only 327/300/4-speed and 409/4-speed came standard with a tach.
The '63 SS option included a special HD suspension and the ride height was about an inch lower that the regular Impala.
http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet...
Richard
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 01:31 PM - Post#2234422
In response to Richard Martin
I think I see an SZ in the second grouping ACC codes, which means rear manual antenna and tilt column, right?
Looking at the pic, I didn't see a title lever, but looking closely I see a small shiny dot below the column that could be the lever! If it is factory tilt, then it will have the rectangular cutout above the column to let me know if it had a factory tach or not, correct?
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Richard Martin
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4311
Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
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06-07-12 01:36 PM - Post#2234427
In response to Cyque
I've never seen a car with a factory tach and tilt although it may have been available. In fact I never saw a 327/250, when it was new, with a tach either although it was available as an extra cost option. I know very little about ACC codes.
Richard
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ARKAR
Contributor
Posts: 580
Loc: Arkansas
Reg: 01-26-09
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06-07-12 03:03 PM - Post#2234470
In response to Richard Martin
One thing that strikes me as unusual, is that the box on the firewall is for a heater-only, non-ac car. An Air conditioned firewall should have the bigger box which requires another hole in the firewall above where the heater box is now. Someone would have had to weld it up. I can post a picture of a factory air firewall on a '63 if it helps.
Also, on my '64 and the '63 I mentioned earlier both have paint on the cowl tags. Neither have been repainted since factory that I know of.
Keith
Edited by ARKAR on 06-07-12 03:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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62sedan
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3328
Age: 62
Loc: North Dallas area
Reg: 08-12-02
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06-07-12 03:54 PM - Post#2234488
In response to ARKAR
I think I see an SZ in the second grouping ACC codes, which means rear manual antenna and tilt column, right?
Cyque,
If you look closely, that "SZ" is actually 3Z, with 3 being Accessory group 3. The "Z" has been known as an accessory code for Super Sport..... which ties in with the Trim code of 812 for Black vinyl bucket seats only available in Super Sport models. Looks like it's the real deal.
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frankthetank
Contributor
Posts: 662
Loc: Lodi California
Reg: 02-22-11
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06-07-12 04:06 PM - Post#2234496
In response to 62sedan
Car looks pretty straight, all the body lines seem to match up nicely.
1963 Chevrolet impala sport coupe
2006 Chevrolet silverado crew cab 2wd |
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62BillT
"11th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4620
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
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06-07-12 04:16 PM - Post#2234499
In response to Richard Martin
"but the tach is also gone"
The 327/250/Powerglide or 4-speed didn't come standard with a tach even if the car is a SS. Only 327/300/4-speed and 409/4-speed came standard with a tach.
Richard, I wasn't aware of the '63 327/250 not having one or the 327/409 PG cars not having one, but there sure must have been a lot of cars out there with an ordered tach!
ARKAR, Good catch on the Firewall Housing. Out of co-incidence, I'm working on one right now.
Bill
Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America
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62sedan
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3328
Age: 62
Loc: North Dallas area
Reg: 08-12-02
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06-07-12 04:44 PM - Post#2234506
In response to 62BillT
I noticed the respray (paint on cowl tags)
I'm sure you're correct on this, as the firewalls were to be painted black starting with the '63 model year production. The overview picture of the engine bay that you posted supports this. Sure looks like the white paint was sprayed over the black, and the trim tag also shows evidence of once being black as well.
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 05:08 PM - Post#2234517
In response to ARKAR
Arkar,
Yes please, pics would be great if you have time. I'll try to google it, but I'm leaving early in the AM to have a look at this car so I'll need to educate myself tonight on the heater box.
Richard,
They are out there, I've seen a couple of tilt columns with the factory "cutout" to fit the tach.
62sedan,
You are correct. I took the pic into photoshop and inverted it and the 3 is much easier to read.
It looks like (the part I can see) the trim tag is: ? 2CKM 3Z
Also, wasn't 62 the year where the changeover happened where some had body color and some were black? Thought I read that somewhere.
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 05:12 PM - Post#2234520
In response to ARKAR
Are the 63 and 64 a/c boxes firewalls different? Here are pics of my old 64 parts car:
Edited by Cyque on 06-07-12 05:15 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 05:21 PM - Post#2234527
In response to Cyque
By the way, how do I determine if this car is not "numbers matching". If it doesn't match, I might be able to save some $$. The guy has an offer for the full asking price if the "numbers match". If I can prove they don't, then I have a lot of room for negotiation.
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mac1
Senior Member
Posts: 1452
Loc: Long Beach, Ca.
Reg: 08-26-02
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06-07-12 05:54 PM - Post#2234534
In response to Cyque
Also, wasn't 62 the year where the changeover happened where some had body color and some were black? Thought I read that somewhere.
62 firewalls were all painted body color. The change to all black firewalls started mid year in 63.
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ARKAR
Contributor
Posts: 580
Loc: Arkansas
Reg: 01-26-09
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06-07-12 06:21 PM - Post#2234544
In response to mac1
Sorry it took me a bit, in-laws came over for supper.
Yes, I think the '63 and '64 A.C. setups were about the same. Here's a picture of the '63 I
was talking about. Looks like you are already
familiar with what it should look like. 
Keith
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 06:29 PM - Post#2234548
In response to ARKAR
yeah, I had forgotten, haven't seen that 64 in quite some time. Luckily I took pictures of every inch of it.
From what i can tell, numbers matching on a 63 is just date coding to see if it's possible to build the car on it's build date...
block stamp on back drivers side behind head tells me what engine it is, block stamp on passenger side behind head (closer to middle) will tell me the casting date.
Stamps on the transmission (unable to find verification of where these are on a 63 powerglide) will tell me it's machining and build date.
Stamp on rear end will tell me its casting date.
If all else matches, removing valve covers will get casting dates on heads.
Google those to get dates/info, if all matches closely to car build date (all within a couple months before car date) then it's "numbers matching". Correct?
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ARKAR
Contributor
Posts: 580
Loc: Arkansas
Reg: 01-26-09
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06-07-12 06:45 PM - Post#2234551
In response to Cyque
I can't remember exactly how this goes, but the same pad on the passenger's side of the block should have part or all of the VIN number on it. It should match the number on the tag in the door jamb on the driver's side of the car. This will tell you if the block is the original. I've heard of the VIN being restamped in some cases, so beware of that too.
You asked about how to denote a Positrac rear, there should be a "P" casted into the carrier's front on one side(can't remember which) if the carrier is a Posi unit. Doesn't mean that it came in the car(someone could have swapped it in) but will tell if it is a Posi or not.
Hopefully someone will chime in that knows the details better.
Good luck!
Keith
Edited by ARKAR on 06-07-12 06:47 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 06:49 PM - Post#2234553
In response to ARKAR
Thanks, for the info. I can identify a posi, just wondering what the odds are of it being in this car.
From most of what I have read today, I didn't think any part of the VIN was stamped in the block in 63, can someone confirm either way?
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ARKAR
Contributor
Posts: 580
Loc: Arkansas
Reg: 01-26-09
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06-07-12 06:58 PM - Post#2234558
In response to Cyque
I can't remember when it started, someone who knows for sure will post hopefully!
Keith
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Verne_Frantz
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3622
Loc: hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
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06-07-12 07:02 PM - Post#2234562
In response to Cyque
Thanks, for the info. I can identify a posi, just wondering what the odds are of it being in this car.
From most of what I have read today, I didn't think any part of the VIN was stamped in the block in 63, can someone confirm either way?
In '63, the partial VIN was supposed to be stamped on the deck pad on all 300hp, 400hp & 425hp cars.
As for the firewall color, the photo of the cowl tag appears to have 04C for a body build date, in which case all cars would have had a black firewall..............EXCEPT Atlanta (and I can't make out the body plant) which could be either way all through production.
Verne
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junky
Contributor
Posts: 886
Reg: 06-27-10
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06-07-12 07:02 PM - Post#2234564
In response to Cyque
Before you go crawling under the car to see if it is a posi, check the trunk deck lid for the posi identification paper. If you can see evidence of two paper tags on the inside of the deck lid, then there is a good chance that the car came with a posi. If only the jacking instructions, and no evidence of another paper tag alongside of it, then not likely it was a posi car.
Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 07:05 PM - Post#2234565
In response to junky
Junky, great clue, thanks!
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 07:12 PM - Post#2234569
In response to Cyque
Verne,
With this being a 250 HP car (allegedly), I assume that means no VIN? I'm not sure where it was built, but the car is basically in Atlanta at the moment so there's a decent chance it's an Atlanta car.
I know the accessory tag says "K" (which is supposed to be A/C, right?) but the more I think about it, the more I think we are looking at the A/C issue wrong. I was thinking originally that someone changed the a/c dash housing to a regular one. Then it was pointed out that the A/C box was just a simple heater box and maybe the firewall was modified.
I'm now wondering if the A/C balls on the dash were added to this car for some reason.
Makes me wonder if this is some frankenstein car and not the unmolested SS it first appears to be.
Edited by Cyque on 06-07-12 07:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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ARKAR
Contributor
Posts: 580
Loc: Arkansas
Reg: 01-26-09
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06-07-12 07:24 PM - Post#2234570
In response to Cyque
I think the ball vents were added for some reason. Things to look for include the A.C. cars don't have a vent/knob/cable on the passenger side because the evaporator core was mounted in the pocket on that side of the car. Also, look at the controls, the A.C. car will have four selectors, while the non A.C. cars have only three selectors on the control panel for the interior climate control.
Keith
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roccaas
Contributor
Posts: 627
Loc: Savannah, Georgia
Reg: 05-01-11
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06-07-12 07:35 PM - Post#2234576
In response to ARKAR
Tuck and Roll upholstery on Dash Pad??
Is that an SS item? I've never seen that before.
For the good old American lifestyle: For the money, for the glory, and for the fun... mostly for the money.
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 07:57 PM - Post#2234583
In response to ARKAR
What about the ACC tag? Anyone sure that's original to the car? Rivets look okay to those "in the know"? Maybe someone trying to build an SS car, changed vin and acc tag, had to add all of the accessories to match the options shown, just did the A/C balls and stopped? Conspiracy theory, but not out of the realm of possibility...
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ARKAR
Contributor
Posts: 580
Loc: Arkansas
Reg: 01-26-09
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06-07-12 08:11 PM - Post#2234586
In response to Cyque
I also just noticed that the clutch rod, bracket, and bellcrank are gone in the picture of the engine compartment.
Also, when you go look at it, look for the engine-turned spirals/scales in the trim. Only SS models had that.
Keith
Edited by ARKAR on 06-07-12 08:14 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Cyque
Senior Member
Posts: 313
Loc: Auburn, AL
Reg: 06-02-04
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06-07-12 08:18 PM - Post#2234590
In response to ARKAR
Arkar,
Clutch rod? It's a Powerglide, floor shift automatic, no?
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