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Username Post: 1958 Chevy passenger cars with factory 4-speeds?        (Topic#278553)
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5167

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
03-23-12 07:53 PM - Post#2206753    

Was the BW 4-speed transmission a factory installed option on the 1958 Chevrolet passenger car? Although I don't believe it was others do.

This car has been around for several years but I believe it is undocumented:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=1958+chevrol et+delr...

Richard


 
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fbi9c1 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1771

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 08-07-07
03-23-12 10:17 PM - Post#2206778    
    In response to Richard Martin

I am pretty sure there were no factory 4-speed passenger cars in '58. I had a friend who had the solid lifter 348 in his Impala and it had 3 on the tree. He bought it new.
Jim B.


 
wagonmaster 
Senior Member
Posts: 8385
wagonmaster
Age: 65
Loc: Loganville, Ga.
Reg: 04-28-00
03-24-12 04:03 AM - Post#2206811    
    In response to fbi9c1

I disagree, I believe the B-W 4 speed was an option with the 348 and the 283 (not all 283s). I saw too many of them back in "THE DAY" for them all to have been converted. This site seems to verify my opinion:
http://www.oldride.com/library/1958_chevrole t_impa...

The four speed reference shows up on engine codes leading me to believe they HAD 'em!
Hey T @!


In Memory of Mike McVeigh- The "Mad Spring Wacker" He roams the Forums of CT forever in our hearts and minds!

http://www.picturetrail.com/wagonmaster55

Joe


 
Allan In NE 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1633

Reg: 12-27-11
03-24-12 06:20 AM - Post#2206841    
    In response to Richard Martin

Nope,

Not until 1962.

Allan
Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist


 
Sparkywax 
Contributor
Posts: 963
Sparkywax
Age: 46
Loc: Indiana
Reg: 10-31-10
03-24-12 06:54 AM - Post#2206864    
    In response to Richard Martin

What does the column look like? Did the so-called floor shift '57s and '58s still have the knobs on the columns or were the smooth?
1955 Belair 2dr
1955 Belair 4dr (parts car)
1957 Belair 2dr
1964 Impala SS
1966 Chevrolet Truck
1968 Chevrolet Truck
1968 Impala SS 396 (Survivor)


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7568

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
03-24-12 07:23 AM - Post#2206878    
    In response to Allan In NE

The issue/question of a FACTORY INSTALLED 4sp in a 58 pass car has been kicked around, debated, discussed, argued and generally asserted since the Civil War days ---------------------- and still no firm, documented example to be seen.
Now, here is what Tom Parsons has personally observed in the past.
In the summers of 1960-61 (I graduated 61), I was a lifeguard at one of the Okla City swimming pools. One of the older lifeguards that was in college, had a 58 Impala conv with what appeared to be a factory 4sp. It did NOT appear to be dealer or post-production installation and there was NO knob on the steering column collar where a previous column shift handle had been. By ALLLLLLLLLL appearances it was a factory 4sp 58 Impala. Now, I admit, at the age of 17 and 18, it certainly did not occur to me to third degree the owner about its originality. But in 1960, his Impala was only 2yrs old. I suspect it was most unlikely that there were many people who had converted/installed a 4sp in their cars at that time. But certainly GM did in fact 4spds and 4sp conversion components available for retro installation into earlier cars. Also, his 58 had what appeared to be a factory boot/retainer. So if a factory 4sp was not available in a 58 pass car, where did the boot/retainer come from?
And last, back in those days it never occured to ANY OF US to take detailed notes and lots of pictures to document these kinds of options. Who knew then that 50+yrs later these issues would be so controversial!!!
Tom Parsons


 
feffin 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 201

Loc: Victoria B.C. Canada
Reg: 11-30-04
03-24-12 09:56 AM - Post#2206937    
    In response to DZAUTO

It's also detailed in the 58 assembly manual.

 
fbi9c1 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1771

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 08-07-07
03-24-12 10:32 AM - Post#2206941    
    In response to Allan In NE

  • Allan In NE Said:
Nope,

Not until 1962.

Allan



No, they became available in '59. Again, they were not available from the factory on full sized cars in '58 and no matter how many some of you have seen that "look factory" they were all conversions and this was a popular modification to do to your '58.
The reason the 4-speed appeared in the material shown is because it was available in the Corvette.
Jim B.


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5167

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
03-24-12 11:05 AM - Post#2206946    
    In response to fbi9c1

Chevrolet printed model year information is often printed before actual production. Therefore even though the '58 assembly manual may show 4-speed installation in the full-size car it is not proof Chevrolet actually built any.

An example: All the early 1970 Corvette printed info shows an optional LS7 460 horsepower 454 engine. Other than a Chevy test mule car none were ever built for retail sale because Chevy cancelled the LS7 option.

1970 Corvette power train chart:
http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet...

1970 LS7:
http://www.oldride.com/library/1970_chevrole t_corv...

Richard

 
bowtieollie 
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 21133
bowtieollie
Loc: See the USA in your Chevr...
Reg: 12-06-99
03-24-12 02:53 PM - Post#2207018    
    In response to Richard Martin

Hello Richard,

As you know I am the VCCA Technical Advisor for the 1958 Model Year.

I have never seen ANY factory documentation supporting an RPO for the 4 speed in the passenger car body.

I do know of dealer installed 4 speeds with the proper supporting documentation. Two that I have seen were "fairly upset customers" who were talked into the Turboglide and GM stepped up to the plate and had the 4 speed installed as a warranty repair.

I would not be surprised if a car or two slipped out of GM Engineering with a 4 spd for "testing" in preparation of the '59 model year - but those were one-offs and not production models.

Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5167

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
03-24-12 03:29 PM - Post#2207029    
    In response to bowtieollie

Ollie: Thank you for your reply. I've always thought the '58s were probably not available with a 4-speed but because of the incomplete info on the 58's thought there may be some possibilty.

I've also tried to find info on the '58 solid lifter 348 engines, in particular the 4-bbl. carb engine, but there isn't much.

Richard

 
CJS57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2462
CJS57
Age: 68
Loc: New Milford , Connecticut
Reg: 01-18-05
03-25-12 03:46 AM - Post#2207160    
    In response to DZAUTO

"So if a factory 4sp was not available in a 58 pass car, where did the boot/retainer come from?"

The boot would have likely come from the Chevrolet Parts Department or from a brand new 1959/60 wrecked Chevrolet 4-speed car. In my old home town the Parts Dept. had "kits" all pre-made up to convert PG's and TG's to stick shifts! That was in 1963. They even had the "special" Turboglide-to-stick-shift conversion pilot bushings right there over the counter, I know, I purchased a "kit" and a TG special Pilot bushing, in 1963 for a 283 Power Pack Turboglide engine. It all worked great!
1957 Belair 2Dr Hdtp, 58,000 original miles, original never rebuilt 283 engine, 245hp, Dual Fours, Tremec TKO 600 5-speed, 3.70 gears, AACA Senior in 1985
previous trifives:
1955 Belair Convt
1956 210 2dr Sdn
1957 Belair 2Dr Hdtp


Edited by CJS57 on 03-25-12 03:51 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bowtieollie 
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 21133
bowtieollie
Loc: See the USA in your Chevr...
Reg: 12-06-99
03-25-12 04:18 PM - Post#2207422    
    In response to Richard Martin

Hello Richard,

Well you sure got the juices flowing with that '64 Olds 442 on Ebay!

No more room in the stable, and I can't bring myself to sell anything......life can be difficult!

Okay, I think you and I will agree that the 348 high output engines came late in the model year, and did find their way into the Police Package models. (although I wonder how often the motor pool department would be adjusting those valves???)

This is supported by a TSB indicating the change in the cylinder head/block design to help improve spark plug life with the additional passages for engine coolant. Since the plug life was short under heavy duty use.

In my lifetime, I have only seen one solid lifter 348 in a '58 which had the correct FD code and it was not a "restamp". Of course, this was back in the days when we did not dissect these cars to ad nauseum - but you could buy a nice one for under $500 back then too.

Maybe Jens found one during his '58 Expeditions??

Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5167

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
03-25-12 05:16 PM - Post#2207439    
    In response to bowtieollie

Ollie:

A few years ago Super Chevy Magazine had an article on the history of the 348 but I believe some of the info may be incorrect which confuses the issue even more. The elusive 348/265 which appears to be a 348/250 with the solid lifter camshaft is listed. I first heard of this engine over 40 years ago but have never found any info. A. Colvin has a copy of a TSB in his 1960-'64 edition of CBTN book which mentions a COPO 348 solid lifter engine so that may be the engine.

http://www.superchevy.com/features/pre1977full/ suc...

Richard

 
Brook2 
Senior Member
Posts: 170
Brook2
Loc: Christchurch, New Zealand
Reg: 02-10-03
03-26-12 02:33 AM - Post#2207544    
    In response to Richard Martin

That 58 Del Ray looks like a car in Super Chevy magazine from August 1992. Same colour, positraction, radio delete, 4-speed. Owned (then at least) by Carl Dwiggins in Conover, North Carolina. Owner said he built it from Corvette parts. I can scan and email the article if anyone is interested. I don't know the legalities of putting it on my cardomain page.

Cheers
Lindsay
58 Bel Air Sport Coupe Brook2's 58


 
wagonmaster 
Senior Member
Posts: 8385
wagonmaster
Age: 65
Loc: Loganville, Ga.
Reg: 04-28-00
03-26-12 04:26 AM - Post#2207571    
    In response to Brook2

Ollie,
Thanks for the info!
Hey T @!


In Memory of Mike McVeigh- The "Mad Spring Wacker" He roams the Forums of CT forever in our hearts and minds!

http://www.picturetrail.com/wagonmaster55

Joe


 
bowtieollie 
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 21133
bowtieollie
Loc: See the USA in your Chevr...
Reg: 12-06-99
03-26-12 05:31 PM - Post#2207834    
    In response to Richard Martin

Hello Richard,

The TSB for 1960 348 makes reference to a rather large list of revisions which took place on three RPO's.

I cannot find any reference to a 265 HP version, and I agree with you that it very well may be the 250 HP version with the hydraulic camshaft.

The TSB differenciates the 305, 320, and 335 HP versions.
Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator


 
Jens 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6575
Jens
Loc: Iowa.
Reg: 04-21-02
03-28-12 03:53 PM - Post#2208569    
    In response to bowtieollie

  • bowtieollie Said:
- but you could buy a nice one for under $500 back then too.

Maybe Jens found one during his '58 Expeditions??



Not quite that good of a deal Ollie. But the guy did only want $1000 for the original 59 3x2 GB code -wagon engine we found.




 
62BillT 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5003
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
03-28-12 05:37 PM - Post#2208600    
    In response to Jens

It was only a standard 348-250, but back in 1970 I bought a '59 348 for $5. Not a typo (Five Dollars).

...the good old days.

Bill
Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
bowtieollie 
ChevyTalk Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 21133
bowtieollie
Loc: See the USA in your Chevr...
Reg: 12-06-99
03-29-12 04:19 AM - Post#2208724    
    In response to 62BillT

LOL, I remember those days as well Bill....

The engine for $5.00 and the whole car for under $150.
Bowtieollie
Chevytalk.com Moderator


 
Jalapeno 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 8908
Jalapeno
Loc: The Republic of Texas
Reg: 04-30-00
03-29-12 08:04 AM - Post#2208780    
    In response to Jens

Jens, I wonder why that engine has a double crank pulley? It looks like the pulley is set-up for power steering without AC from a 60-61 348, you think maybe it came from a 60-61 348?

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread.
Jalapeno


 
Jens 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6575
Jens
Loc: Iowa.
Reg: 04-21-02
03-29-12 08:16 AM - Post#2208787    
    In response to Jalapeno

I noticed that too Steve. Not sure why it's on there. I haven't done anything with it other than to install a correct center carb that was missing. The engine ran when pulled & sat under a bench in a shed -over grown with weeds for several years.


 
fbi9c1 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1771

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 08-07-07
03-29-12 08:49 AM - Post#2208807    
    In response to bowtieollie

"Okay, I think you and I will agree that the 348 high output engines came late in the model year, and did find their way into the Police Package models. (although I wonder how often the motor pool department would be adjusting those valves???"

In 1960, I had a white 58 Impala with PG. My friend had a black 58 Impala that his dad bought new. It had the 315HP/348 3/2bbl solid lifter(Police Option) engine and 3-speed. It was pretty quick and to date is the only Impala I ever saw with that option. Everyone knew how to adjust solid lifters in those days:)
Jim B.


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5167

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
03-29-12 10:03 AM - Post#2208835    
    In response to fbi9c1

The 348-409 website, in it's literature library, has photo copies of a car magazine's road test of a '58 Delray 348/315.

Richard

 
GaryC 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 2677
GaryC
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA. U.S.A
Reg: 02-28-03
03-31-12 10:24 AM - Post#2209533    
    In response to DZAUTO

"And last, back in those days it never occured to ANY OF US to take detailed notes and lots of pictures to document these kinds of options. "

I'd say most never gave it a second thought.....





1957 Chevrolet Bel Air coupe, 300hp 327, M20 4 speed


 
wagonmaster 
Senior Member
Posts: 8385
wagonmaster
Age: 65
Loc: Loganville, Ga.
Reg: 04-28-00
04-01-12 04:08 AM - Post#2209806    
    In response to GaryC

My last word on the '58 4 speeds....
In 1966 when was stationed in N.C. my '58 was eating 3 speeds at an alarming rate. (May have been my inability to power shift correctly, LOL). Another Marine had a similar '58 Impala (his was a coupe) with a 348 4 speed in it, but it was a total rust bucket and the motor was bad. He sold parts off of it and I got the trans and drive shaft. This car appeared to be factory original in every respect...no column linkage was there nor did it appear to have ever been there. The place where a shift lever would have mounted was not there, nor any evidence it had been there, ever. I was going to get the column, since mine had been converted and had the lever mount, etc. but never did, in fact my car was wrecked and the drive train transferred to a '55 210 2 door hardtop....another pretty rare car in it's own right...If I had only known then what I know now....
Let me be clear, I believe Ollie and Richard, they are more knowledgeable than I am and have proven this more than once...With my own experience, I thought this car was the real deal....besides I was only 18, some things I remember perfectly, some, not as well....
Hey T @!


In Memory of Mike McVeigh- The "Mad Spring Wacker" He roams the Forums of CT forever in our hearts and minds!

http://www.picturetrail.com/wagonmaster55

Joe


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5167

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
04-01-12 04:42 AM - Post#2209817    
    In response to wagonmaster

I said I didn't believe the '58 passenger car was available with a 4-speed but I have no proof other than I couldn't find a RPO. Ollie said there is no known RPO for the 4-speed and that appears to be true but all the '58 factory printed info on these cars that is available to us today appears to be early printings so we may not have all the info.

A few things I have learned about the '58:

Chevrolet printed info sez the 1700 and 1800 series came standard with wheel covers. The 1700 series is the 6-cylinder Impala, Bel Air and Nomad station wagon. The 1800 series is the V8 Impala, Bel Air and Nomad station wagon.

It appears there is no RPO for wheel covers so they were only available to lesser models as a dealer installed accessory.

1958 also appears to be the first year a factory installed radio was available. There is a RPO for the push-button radio.

The 1800 series (V8 Impala, Bel Air & Nomad) came standard with electric wipers.

The 1958 Chevy passenger car Heritage website. Takes a few seconds to load...then click on the BLUE down arrow at the top of the page to start:

http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archiv...

Richard

 
wagonmaster 
Senior Member
Posts: 8385
wagonmaster
Age: 65
Loc: Loganville, Ga.
Reg: 04-28-00
04-01-12 03:38 PM - Post#2210022    
    In response to Richard Martin

Thanks Richard!
Hey T @!


In Memory of Mike McVeigh- The "Mad Spring Wacker" He roams the Forums of CT forever in our hearts and minds!

http://www.picturetrail.com/wagonmaster55

Joe


 
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