blackZ71Jeff
Contributor
Posts: 107
Reg: 10-05-10
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02-20-12 09:06 PM - Post#2193192
Just finished an unexpected blown head gasket on my engine with less than 5K miles on her. Seems it was a defective gasket between #4 and #6 cylinders. The engine builder has been great so far by sending Felpro gasket set and an invoice to bill them labor. I'm done with replace and repair, but I have not figured out the torque for valve rocker arms. Should I keep them kind of loose and adjust as engine is idling? Is there a torque for these, as I noticed the good side rockers show very little movement. Should I tighten tight enough for slight movement by hand and tighten 1/4 turns to quiet them if clicking? Is there no torque for rocker arm nut? Thanks in advance. BTW I have it in an instructional video and pics as each step was taken that I will post when completed.
Here
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355Cheyenne
Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Loc: Northern MN
Reg: 10-27-04
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02-21-12 05:51 AM - Post#2193265
In response to blackZ71Jeff
First you set zero lash so you spin the pushrod with fingers and tighten the rocker nut just until the pushrod ketches and stops. The next part is up to debate but some say 1/4 additional turn, some say up to 1 full additional turn. I usually do half and call it good.
| 98 Silverado k1500 4x4 350 |
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markss
Forum Newbie
Posts: 67
Age: 59
Loc: Palm Beach County, Fl
Reg: 12-02-11
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02-21-12 09:19 AM - Post#2193343
In response to 355Cheyenne
In addition to what Cheyenne said, don't forget to adjust them in their closed position. Start with #1 cylinder in firing position and adjust
Exhaust: 1,3,4,8
Intake: 1,2,5,7
Spin the engine one complete revolution to the #6 firing position and adjust
Exhaust: 2,5,6,7
Intake: 3,4,6,8
Good Luck, Mark
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355Cheyenne
Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Loc: Northern MN
Reg: 10-27-04
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02-21-12 10:32 AM - Post#2193364
In response to markss
LOL, they is key information and completely forgot. Thank you for ketching that! 
| 98 Silverado k1500 4x4 350 |
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blackZ71Jeff
Contributor
Posts: 107
Reg: 10-05-10
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02-21-12 02:24 PM - Post#2193453
In response to 355Cheyenne
Thanks guys, luckily I only had to do the 2,4,6,8 cyl's according to leak down test. It appeared that my #4 and #6 were sharing compression and fluids This is what I was presented with!
I had the heads checked and surface of block and it seems that it was a defective gasket...since I only had about 5K on her and never overheated. I did take the liberty to check how it was burning and cant complain. As I said the builder was very helpful with sending Felpro gasket set and the invoioce to charge him for labor.
Here is how it went:
The only issue I had was my dang distributor. I got her at TDC on #1 and stabbed her with pointer at the cast #8 on cover, but had to move slightly counter clockwise so it had enough clearance from plenum for the plug wires to go on. You can see in the picture of how the blue pointer is pointing directly at #8 on cover and #1 post on cap, but once locked down, it was touching plenum and had no room for #8 plug wire to slide on. I couldnt get it to seat otherwise, even after sticking screwdriver in oil pump and moving. It wanted to slip in at only one spot. I figured a couple degrees wouldnt be too much so I went ahead and decided I would attack that later. Anyway, since I only have one set of heads to adjust, how would that process be used for only the 2,4,6,8 side...still do exhaust first and then a 180 degree turn and adjust intake?
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blackZ71Jeff
Contributor
Posts: 107
Reg: 10-05-10
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02-21-12 02:31 PM - Post#2193460
In response to blackZ71Jeff
One more question....Once I broke her down, my rear ground strap was grounded to top rear of block, instead of what my Chiltons advised to ground to rear of head. This time I grounded it on head instead of where it was....any problems with that as far as messing up my ground?
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355Cheyenne
Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Loc: Northern MN
Reg: 10-27-04
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02-21-12 03:53 PM - Post#2193488
In response to blackZ71Jeff
on my 98 the ground is on the back of the head, not the block to the fire wall so I would say you are fine.
| 98 Silverado k1500 4x4 350 |
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blackZ71Jeff
Contributor
Posts: 107
Reg: 10-05-10
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02-22-12 05:10 AM - Post#2193695
In response to 355Cheyenne
Im having a really tough time (and it takes alot for me to admit that!) adjusting my valves after replacing head gasket. Since my leak down test only showed that my #4 and #6 cyls were affected I only pulled one side. From my notes for adjusting the valves it shows the entire sequence in firing order. This is good, except I did not touch the 1,3,5,7 rocker arms.
Is there a method to this madness for only setting the 2,4,6,8 valves? I know you are supposed to do it order of firing, and once #1 is set (which it is) that you go to #6 TDC and adjust it next....well what about 2,4, and 8? Can someone help me with this brain fart Im having?
note: is the closest rocker the intake or exhaust. After all the time I have in it to fix head gasket, this is kicking my arse! 
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 CowboyTrukr
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 699
Loc: Salt Lake City
Reg: 06-20-09
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02-22-12 01:42 PM - Post#2193887
In response to blackZ71Jeff
Jeff, the small block valve sequence is E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E.
greg
'94 Silverado K2500 4X4 5.7 5spd Xcab LB
RV cam, Pace Setter Headers, TBI spacer, Flow Tech air cleaner adapter, Hypertech street chip
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Sir Edmund Burke |
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Allan In NE
Contributor
Posts: 898
Reg: 12-27-11
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02-22-12 02:01 PM - Post#2193898
In response to blackZ71Jeff
You're making this harder than it is.
Loosen 'em all up. THEN, take them all down to 0 lash. Crank the engine over a couple of revalutions. Take them all down to 0 again.
Then once again just to make darn sure we haven't missed anybody; crank the engine over and adjust all to "0" lash.
Okay after three times around the horn, you've got 'em at 0.
Now, take them all down one complete additional turn and put the valve cover back on. You're done.
All that counting intake, counting exhaust and where the stroke is would drive anyone nuts. 
Allan
| Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist |
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blackZ71Jeff
Contributor
Posts: 107
Reg: 10-05-10
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02-22-12 02:02 PM - Post#2193901
In response to CowboyTrukr
I was aware of the EIIEEIIE order, but I'm a bit confused on how I can get to #6 firing position. I found TDC on #1 and marked it on harmonic balancer pulley right at the "V" on the timing chain cover. I was told to do a complete turn of engine to the #6 firing position. If I do that it will be exhaust stroke for #1, but is that also firing position for #6? That is what is hanging me up. I could, in theory look at distributor cap and make sure it's pointing at the cast #6...right? I have adjusted #2 and #8 by being at TDC of #1, its the #4 and #6 I have to do now but hung up on where #6 firing position is in relation to my mark on harmonic balancer. Would it be just as easy to pull #6 plug and get TDC on it to finish the adjustment on that head?
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blackZ71Jeff
Contributor
Posts: 107
Reg: 10-05-10
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02-22-12 02:13 PM - Post#2193903
In response to Allan In NE
I knew as soon as I wrote my last reply Allen would give me the easy way! I will give that one a try...and if it doesn't work...i will be sure to make light of it!
Here goes nothin' as I type on my brand new smartphone with black greasy fingers!
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Allan In NE
Contributor
Posts: 898
Reg: 12-27-11
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02-22-12 03:31 PM - Post#2193931
In response to blackZ71Jeff
Only thing to remember is not to get lost when your bringin' 'em all down one turn. Don't skip one, don't do one twice. 
Allan
| Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist |
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sgian
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4438
Loc: MO
Reg: 12-25-03
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02-23-12 01:05 PM - Post#2194281
In response to Allan In NE
When doing zero lash, it is better to adjust down until vertical movement of the pushrod stops, rather than spinning the pushrods. The reason is that sometimes the pushrod will still spin past zero lash.
I don't want to start a flame war, but the "easy" way to adjust the valves is a good way to not only get the adjustment wrong, but to flatten a cam lobe. The reason is that valves open and close at different times. You just won't get it right at TDC for just one cylinder.
The other method, in which you adjust some valves at cylinder one and then the rest at TDC for cylinder 6 should work.
I use another method entirely, which is easy to do but takes time to explain.
| 04 Silverado Z71, 10 Cobalt |
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355Cheyenne
Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Loc: Northern MN
Reg: 10-27-04
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02-23-12 03:32 PM - Post#2194347
In response to sgian
The other full proof is to get oil deflectors and do a running adjustment. I did this with my 98 after the rebuild just to try it out. basically loosen the nut slowly until it starts to chatter, then turn it back in until it just stops ticking and then 1/2 more.
| 98 Silverado k1500 4x4 350 |
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drifterdude
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1282
Reg: 09-04-08
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02-23-12 04:35 PM - Post#2194363
In response to 355Cheyenne
Ive killed a cam and lifters with the spinning zero lash method. I now also use a running set. I tighten them all down just enough that the up and down is gone then fire it and immediately go through a running adjustment.
If you get a set of valve covers you can cut a notch with a dremel just above each nut in the covers and bolt the covers on. That way there is very little mess compared to having it full open. Running adjustment is about fool proof.
92 K1500:350 bored 30 over,built 700r4,Comp extreme energy cam,double roller timing set,shaved heads,Rancho RS9000XL series shocks with wireless my ride system,35 inch Mickey Thompson Baja Claws,Relocated 4x4 switch to rocker on Dash.
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Allan In NE
Contributor
Posts: 898
Reg: 12-27-11
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02-23-12 04:52 PM - Post#2194374
In response to sgian
I sure wouldn't use the "spin" thing.
0 lash is zero lash; as in no up and down movement. Really, really got to watch new, empty lifters as that internal spring just isn't very strong.
No, you're not going to ruin a camshaft. A 'too-tight' lifter will cause a miss, not a bad cam.
Allan
| Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist |
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blackZ71Jeff
Contributor
Posts: 107
Reg: 10-05-10
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02-24-12 04:05 PM - Post#2194805
In response to Allan In NE
Well, 4.5 hours later, I am able to get the engine to turn over better...without hanging up on closed exhaust valve, but comparing non adjusted side (good side being 1,3,5,7) and the head I repaired gasket on, I have about 1/8' to almost 1/4' more stud above lock nut on rocker arm. I had to get my neighbor (ASA certified mechanic) to help out and we ended up getting her to turn and fire with some backfires and sputters. It was flooding out somehow with my adjustments, so we started from scratch. I am guessing that we are pretty dang close as it ran for a few minutes, although he manually manipulated throttle cable but it just sounded like it was running on 4 cyl's. We must have spent 2 hours trying to get distributor set right. We stabbed her about 4 times, each time it seemed we were a tooth too far advanced, or a tooth short. We were able to get pointers lined up, etc. with it being at #1 TDC, but now its a mystery on how we can get her running like she did before the head gasket repair. He is adament about it being timing, but with the spider cap and plenum....it just doesnt give much room for any minor adjustments without it contacting plenum.
Cheyenne, I have your sheet on the timing and still unable to get it done with your description. I dont know what to say since the motor ran like a champ, even getting close to 16 mpg before I started losing compression from faulty head gasket. I did nothing to valves in head, and laid out rods in the order they were taken out.
I will take any suggestions at this time! I hate this BS about not being able to manually adjust timing on the 5.7L Vortec...I want my '72 Chevelle back with my Edelbrock High rise manifold and Holley 650 dual pump...with a dang ROUND distributor where I could fine tune after putting a strobe on the harmonic balancer.
Its not the ECM, unless my luck is REAL bad since I just replaced it (still have old one) and even replaced distributor by taking advantage of lifetime warranty.
Truck hasnt moved in a week, but I know I am close since I at least got her to run for a few minutes with a few backfires!
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355Cheyenne
Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Loc: Northern MN
Reg: 10-27-04
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02-24-12 05:28 PM - Post#2194842
In response to blackZ71Jeff
Following my instructions in the FAQ, to get any closer to accurate you need a scan tool. Confirm your motor is perfect TDC. Then make sure the rotor is pointing at the little #8 in the plastic.
remember you cannot adjust timing on these motors, all you are doing by moving the distributor is making sure the rotor is pointing at the right peg in the cap when the ecu decides to fire the coil.
| 98 Silverado k1500 4x4 350 |
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cloudmaster
Senior Member
Posts: 974
Loc: Arrowsmith, IL
Reg: 01-30-02
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02-26-12 05:29 PM - Post#2195596
In response to blackZ71Jeff
You can usually work the distributor (and thus, the oil drive shaft) around backwards, one tooth at a time. Which is annoying when you just want to go one notch forward.  Just keep lifting it up, turning it one gear tooth, and wiggling it back down. If nothing else, randomly jamming the distributor down wherever it fits will have you landing on the right spot eventually (though, I personally use a big screwdriver to line up the shaft).
Also, with the valves, I prefer to do the EO-IC method. Adjust the intake when the exhaust on the same cylinder is just opening, and adjust the exhaust when the intake on the same cylinder is just closing. It takes longer, but the "do half on one rotation and the other half on the other rotation" doesn't work right on really long duration cams. EO-IC always works. If you forget which way it goes, you can think about how the 4-cycle engine works, remembering that the engine is going from the power to the exhaust stroke when the exhaust is opening, so the intake will be on the base circle (it doesn't open until another near 180 degrees of crank rotation). Same basic idea for the other combination.
But, stupid as it sounds, I find it easier to remember that it's EOIC and not ECIO because "EO" reminds me of the donkey's name from Winnie the Pooh - Eeyore. It may not work for everyone, but that sad censored helps me keep my valves adjusted properly.
'71 Malibu: 350/200-4R/3.73 Eaton posi
'75 Elky: 350HO/TH350/3.42 peg leg
'85 C20: 454/TH400/3.73 locker
'95 Caprice Wagon: LT1/4L60E/3.42 posi
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355Cheyenne
Senior Member
Posts: 3743
Loc: Northern MN
Reg: 10-27-04
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02-26-12 09:18 PM - Post#2195692
In response to cloudmaster
You can usually work the distributor (and thus, the oil drive shaft) around backwards, one tooth at a time. Which is annoying when you just want to go one notch forward. Just keep lifting it up, turning it one gear tooth, and wiggling it back down. If nothing else, randomly jamming the distributor down wherever it fits will have you landing on the right spot eventually (though, I personally use a big screwdriver to line up the shaft).
Good point, that is exactly the info he needs to get the distributor to where he needs it. In my shoes I bump it one tooth and wiggle like made and most of the time I can get the oil shaft to turn correctly into the distributor.
| 98 Silverado k1500 4x4 350 |
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blackZ71Jeff
Contributor
Posts: 107
Reg: 10-05-10
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02-26-12 10:00 PM - Post#2195715
In response to 355Cheyenne
Thanks guys. This is eventually how I got it right. I got it at #1 TDC and made sure it was at top of compression stroke by sliding small screwdriver and feeling the tip of piston. I marked the harmaonic balancer at the "v" on cover plate. I then lined up my dimple and gear on didtributor and actually started to drop it about 12 degrees off so that the gear spiralled with the pump and it landed perfectly with the pointer at #8 on casing with it marked for future reference on harmonic balancer. I tightened her down, and while adjusting the valves and manually turning crank, one complete turn had pointer straight at #6 post.
Just a slight tweak after getting everything back on and my timing is fine. Its just the mixing of the coolant that has me on the edge now, but will keep an eye on it this week. If its another issue....Im having a new long block sent to me. Its got a 7/70K warranty and Im already over $1000 in labor according to book and not going to put anymore time in fixing a crap motor.
Thanks again, you guys are the best!
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