 Johnny468
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 565
Loc: Richmond, Va.
Reg: 10-24-08
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02-19-12 02:48 PM - Post#2192528
Ever since I've owned this car the front end has never been right. It tracks and drives fine but the front tires always wear and get "feathered" on the outer edges. I've had it to 2 alignment shops and they both said this is as good as they can get it with a standard alignment. All the front end components are new or less than 10 years old. Right now I have no shims on the front or rear right side control arm shaft bolts and no shims on the front left side control arm bolt with a big thick stack of shims on the left rear bolt. Is the frame bent? Would offset control arm shafts help to correct this? Unfortunately I don't have a printout of the alignment specs. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Johnny
1965 Impala SS
505/4-speed/4.30
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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02-19-12 03:17 PM - Post#2192542
In response to Johnny468
without seeing the car, I would guess your problem is from soft tires and fast cornering. no matter how good the alignment is, the outside of front tires will feather when cornering at high speeds. the other alternative is a harder tire (more carbon) that will be more slippery. the rubber will make it softer and grip better but it wears way quicker.
try inflating the tires a little more and this will cause the tire to deflect less when turning. you will have a harder ride, but the feathering edge problem will be a little less.
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-19-12 05:24 PM - Post#2192610
In response to Johnny468
is it original front end parts/brakes...drums/rotors?
rim off set?
i had a 72 cutless that had a bent frame that was fixed..a ton of shims on one side and hardley any on the drivers side.
or like Leon said..tires..psi...and all.
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mjc1
Senior Member
Posts: 1193
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
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02-19-12 07:24 PM - Post#2192677
In response to Johnny468
Incorrect toe setting?
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 427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12269
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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02-19-12 10:27 PM - Post#2192757
In response to Johnny468
Next time you get an alignment, get the printout. Then you'll know what's out of whack.
Sorry to say, but most alignment "specialists" do not know how to align the older cars - or even know where the adjustments are!
I'm lucky - my business partner is an ASE Certified alignment guy (from previous employment). Whenever I need an alignment, he goes with me and tells the guy how to do it, or does it himself on their Hunter rack.
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-19-12 10:40 PM - Post#2192767
In response to 427SS65
yah caster and camber....
all the new stuff is just toe...mostly.
caster doen't where tires..but incorrect camber and toe can..in some way if the adjustment is really bad..even caster can.
though a text book will say im wrong..
so yah get a print out...before and after..
lots of guys to a bump and bounce allignment...
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Allan In NE
Contributor
Posts: 903
Reg: 12-27-11
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02-20-12 05:31 AM - Post#2192810
In response to Johnny468
Feathering/cupping isn't caused by front end alignment.
It's caused from lack of rotation.
Allan
| Lifelong GM automatic transmission specialist |
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66cayne
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1802
Reg: 08-06-08
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02-20-12 06:53 AM - Post#2192830
In response to Johnny468
Shims!! these cars don't use shims. If your alignmemnt shop is using shims on the control arms then they don't know how to align a 60s B-body car. Chevelles use shims, Impalas don't. You need to find a competent shop.
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-20-12 07:44 AM - Post#2192852
In response to 66cayne
well yah it was a 72 cutlas i was talking about..
i never did FEA on a car..just tractors...and trailors..
we just set toe....the worst to do were hino's..
as far as cars...i did a 80 chevy van once in the drive way with a level.
set toe and camber..
the rotation or lack of makes sense..every 6000miles...
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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02-20-12 07:59 AM - Post#2192860
In response to fmolnar427
I recall taking shims off of the upper control arms when I took mine apart and replaced the bushings. The shims were on the through bolts for the upper control arm pivot. My 72 definitely had them too. How would upper camber be adjusted?
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-20-12 08:23 AM - Post#2192869
In response to leon phelps
you adjust camber by a cam bolt on the lower control arm and caster by the radius rod..
then toe......you would think using shims on the upper control arm would work.
not the way it tells you in my shop manual..
chevelle's are adjusted like that..
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 ss3964spd
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3017
Loc: Fairfax, Va
Reg: 12-21-00
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02-20-12 08:36 AM - Post#2192873
In response to fmolnar427
Johnny,
The short answer is that if the shop had to use shims on the upper control arms in order to set the alignment to factory specs then something is bent. As already mentioned the 65/66 B bodys did not origionally use shims, all adjustment was done with the cam on the inboard end of the lower control arms.
Dan
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent. My ability to access it is not.
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-20-12 08:53 AM - Post#2192876
In response to ss3964spd
your right...
something was bent on my 72...
this set up on the b bodies seems easy to do..
but i could be wrong....
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Johnny468
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 565
Loc: Richmond, Va.
Reg: 10-24-08
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02-20-12 11:27 AM - Post#2192953
In response to fmolnar427
Thanks to everybody for the input. I thought that stack of shims was just a "band-aid" to compensate for a bent frame and not the factory specified method to set the alignment.
As far as the tires go, I can't rotate them because I have different sizes front to rear and I can't turn them inside out because they have white letters on one side. So I've just been stuck with replacing them more often than I should really have to.
I suppose one solution is make sure my next set of front tires (215/65/15) are blackwall on both sides. Then at least I could flip them when the outer edge starts to wear.
Johnny
1965 Impala SS
505/4-speed/4.30
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-20-12 03:05 PM - Post#2193043
In response to Johnny468
you could do that...
i know alot of guys run 215/70R15 in the front and 245/60R15 in the back..
7"rallies in the front and 8" rallies in the back..
personaly i like having the same size all 4 corners..
pretty sure a 225/65R15 is the same a 215/70R15.
do you get alot of body roll/
you could go with a thicker sway bar on the front....and one on the back.
i just know that these cars are great in a straight line...corners?
what kind of tires are you using...?
Like Leon said use a tire with a harder compound..
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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02-20-12 04:20 PM - Post#2193067
In response to fmolnar427
I grew up in a tire shop. heard all the different excuses for why tires wear on the outside. inflation and tire compound were two most common problems.
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VintageCarryall
Member
Posts: 1559
Loc: Arizona
Reg: 10-08-06
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02-20-12 05:44 PM - Post#2193084
In response to leon phelps
I grew up in a tire shop. heard all the different excuses for why tires wear on the outside. inflation and tire compound were two most common problems.
A lot of in town driving especially making lots of right turns can scrub the you-know-what out of the outer edges of your tires.
Another thing to watch out for on an older car is the toe specs were for bias tires (700-14's, etc.) and that is usually too much toe in (positive toe) for radials. The latter seem to like about 1/16" or .2 degree toe in. 
1994 Dodge Caravan SWB 3.3L V6
1962 Studebaker Lark 4 door 350 Chevy/TH350
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HAL_396
Member
Posts: 2707
Loc: Austin, TX
Reg: 11-16-06
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02-20-12 06:04 PM - Post#2193099
In response to Johnny468
Johnny, Here is a snap shot of the ailgnment on my car. The numbers are from the members in these forums. The car rides nice and I don't seem to have any tire issues.....
1955 Chevy Custom
1966 Biscayne
1966 Caprice Drag Car Inwork
1966 Caprice parts car
2004 Silverado
2007 Impala LS
2009 G5 |
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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02-20-12 06:33 PM - Post#2193118
In response to HAL_396
Hal,
Top number is Castor, middle is front camber, and what is bottom?
thanks.
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427SS65
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 12269
Age: 67
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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02-20-12 06:48 PM - Post#2193127
In response to leon phelps
toe
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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02-20-12 08:13 PM - Post#2193163
In response to 427SS65
I wanted to write that down when I take my car for alignment. just in case I get the I dont know the specs.
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-20-12 08:27 PM - Post#2193174
In response to leon phelps
i here yah..i used to bust tires to.
back in the 90's.
i used get all my tires/used...worked at sears...
for 5 years...
need a proper FEA..go from there..
its a pain..a procces of ilimination..
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-20-12 08:33 PM - Post#2193178
In response to HAL_396
i thought the right side cambre was suposed
to be 0 and the left a bit positive....because of the crown of the road....like 1/2 degree..
that might just be a generic spec though.
i save the pic to...i think it will be hard to find anyone to do a proper alignment..whee i am to..
that will be fun.
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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02-21-12 05:31 AM - Post#2193260
In response to fmolnar427
car is aligned without person in it, so when you get in it changes too.
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66cayne
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1802
Reg: 08-06-08
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02-21-12 06:45 AM - Post#2193291
In response to HAL_396
These big cars love as much caster as you can get. More than the factory spec.
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-21-12 11:07 AM - Post#2193380
In response to leon phelps
funny you said that....
there was a customer that came in when i was at sears...
he was a big guy..drove a 80'something caddy..
well he was so big they did the allinment with too guys sitting on the left side...after it came back twice.
he was happy and said we finaly got it right.
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3018
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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02-21-12 11:18 AM - Post#2193387
In response to fmolnar427
I weigh 250, so I can relate. I did move my seat back too.
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fmolnar427
Contributor
Posts: 545
Age: 48
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-06-07
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02-24-12 11:49 AM - Post#2194707
In response to leon phelps
your only 40 up on me...
this guy was more like 350...
and a stinky cigar..
but it worked..
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