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Username Post: WCFB Question        (Topic#269781)
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 11038
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
09-27-11 04:16 PM - Post#2141497    

What have I got here? It's a Carter WCFB (covered in black grease) and the tag has these numbers: 3779178 followed by 3059S.
Thanks!
1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
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62sedan 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3706
62sedan
Age: 63
Loc: Above the dirt
Reg: 08-12-02
09-27-11 04:50 PM - Post#2141517    
    In response to rrausch

Robert,

Look at the very bottom of the page from this link...... http://www.vettefacts.com/C1/1960.aspx
Chuck






 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 11038
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
09-29-11 09:56 AM - Post#2142168    
    In response to 62sedan

Thanks Chuck, but all I get when I click on that is a page that says, "Service Unavailable".
1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
62sedan 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3706
62sedan
Age: 63
Loc: Above the dirt
Reg: 08-12-02
09-29-11 10:44 AM - Post#2142190    
    In response to rrausch

Sorry about that, Robert. I just checked the link again and it opened for me with no problems.

Regardless, that carb was used on a 1960 Corvette with the base 230hp engine. Hope this helps.
Chuck






 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 11038
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
09-29-11 03:37 PM - Post#2142300    
    In response to 62sedan

Ooooo... a Corvette carb! I'm helping my buddy restore his dad's '49 Stude truck, and we just bought a '57 Stude 259 V8 and it had this carb on it.

Actually, I just emailed CT member Carbking, and until I can get the metering rod number we won't be sure it's a 3059S--it's possible it's just a 3059S tag.
1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
62sedan 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3706
62sedan
Age: 63
Loc: Above the dirt
Reg: 08-12-02
09-29-11 04:00 PM - Post#2142305    
    In response to rrausch

Hopefully he will confirm for you, as it should be correct. This carb, 3059S, was the Carter number assigned to GM 3779178 and was also used on the '61 Corvettes with the base engine.

Nice find.
Chuck






 
62BillT 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4981
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
09-29-11 07:16 PM - Post#2142403    
    In response to 62sedan

Look for the number on the base. All the Carter's that I have checked had the number on the edge of the base.
Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
carbking 
Senior Member
Posts: 1208
carbking
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 06-14-03
09-29-11 08:13 PM - Post#2142416    
    In response to 62BillT

Something else to look at would the the throttle arm. You should be able to find a picture of the Chevrolet 3059s arm. The Studebaker arm is a funky looking large offset.

And hope it is a Chevrolet tag only on a Studebaker carb. Even tho the Corvette guys pay big money for lots of Corvette stuff, Corvette 3059s carbs are dirt cheap when compared to Studebaker 4-barrel carbs.

3059s rods should be 75-1421.

Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

The most expensive carburetor you will ever buy.....is the incorrect one you attempt to modify!

If you truly believe "one size fits all", trying walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 11038
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
09-30-11 01:46 PM - Post#2142612    
    In response to carbking

The metering rods are indeed 1421 rods. So it looks like it's a Chevy WCFB. I was hoping it would be a Studey WCFB since that would be easier all the way around.

Carbking... at the risk of making you grit your teeth... is there any good way to modify this 3059S to make it work on the 259 Stude V8? I know... I know...
  • Quote:
By Carbking:
The most expensive carburetor you will ever buy.....is the incorrect one you attempt to modify!


1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
carbking 
Senior Member
Posts: 1208
carbking
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 06-14-03
10-01-11 07:41 AM - Post#2142780    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
The metering rods are indeed 1421 rods. So it looks like it's a Chevy WCFB. I was hoping it would be a Studey WCFB since that would be easier all the way around.

Carbking... at the risk of making you grit your teeth... is there any good way to modify this 3059S to make it work on the 259 Stude V8? I know... I know...
  • Quote:
By Carbking:
The most expensive carburetor you will ever buy.....is the incorrect one you attempt to modify!






Virtually anything can be used on anything if you throw sufficient money at it!

Seriously, the throttle linkage is totally different. If you can work around that, then for sure metering rods, idle jets, main jets, vacuum spring, and air bleeds; plus a lot of time spent on research. There are other differences as well. Not sure on the transition circuits without consulting the prints. With all of the above changes you could make it idle and run at cruise, but (depending on the transition circuits) you might have a hesitation going from idle to main.

If you really want to try it, try to acquire full specifications for both the 3059s, and the Studebaker carb you want to copy; and compare all of the specs.

Being the basically lazy individual that I am, I would try to find a proper Studebaker carburetor. You can probably find someone here on Chevytalk that would like to have the 3059s. We can furnish a Studebaker carb, or you may try Ebay. Based on the information in your email (somewhat ambiguous); you would be looking for:

2219s
2330s
2574s
if passenger engine

OR
2224s
2576s
if truck engine.

I would try to narrow down exactly what year, and whether truck or car first (the carbs ARE different) before trying to acquire a carb.

Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

The most expensive carburetor you will ever buy.....is the incorrect one you attempt to modify!

If you truly believe "one size fits all", trying walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 11038
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-01-11 01:10 PM - Post#2142846    
    In response to carbking

Jon, THANKS! The 3059S was already installed on the V8 in the donor truck we acquired, so the linkage is already worked out. I took a good look at that linkage--it was well done and seemed to work well when I pushed the accel. pedal down in the truck. The truck evidently ran for some amount of time with that carb, but the owner is not around any more to say just exactly how well that carb performed.

I agree a Stude WCFB would be the better choice, but getting one seems to be the difficult part.

The Stude 259 c.i. V8 engine we need the carb for is from a pass car--a '58 Commander, 58B. I don't yet know what the 58B means.
1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
carbking 
Senior Member
Posts: 1208
carbking
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 06-14-03
10-01-11 01:37 PM - Post#2142848    
    In response to rrausch

Robert - according to my limited engine information on Studebaker, the 58B was a Commander or Silver Hawk 259 with Stromberg WW two-barrel carburetor.

I do not show a four-barrel for the 259 in the passenger after 1955. The later truck 259's did use a WCFB four-barrel

The 58H was used in the 1958 President and was a 289 with WCFB four-barrel. I do not have sufficient information to compare compression, camshaft specs, etc of the 259 of 1955 to the 259 of 1958.

This link lists Studebaker passenger carburetors:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Kstudebaker.htm

This link lists Studebaker truck carburetors:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/TruckkitsS.htm#Tk...

Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

The most expensive carburetor you will ever buy.....is the incorrect one you attempt to modify!

If you truly believe "one size fits all", trying walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 11038
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-03-11 07:27 AM - Post#2143422    
    In response to carbking

Jon, thanks so much. Once I come up with the right carb, we will certainly buy the rebuild kit from you--in my experience your kits are far and away the best ones out there.
1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
smithd7 
Senior Member
Posts: 528

Loc: Coburg,Oregon,U.S.A.
Reg: 11-07-01
10-07-11 09:25 AM - Post#2144776    
    In response to 62BillT

I've got a few WCFB carbs without tags and sure can't find any number on the base.Is there a special spot that I'm missing?

 
62BillT 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4981
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
10-07-11 10:09 AM - Post#2144788    
    In response to smithd7

The numbers I have found on the edge of the Bases are on AFB's and AVS Carbs.

I did a little research and found out the WCFB's are harder to identify and it looks like they are not stamped like the other two are.

But here is a possible way by the Casting Number:

http://www.carbguy.com/descriptions.php?id=17&...

Let us know if this works for you.

Bill
Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
62BillT 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4981
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
10-07-11 10:24 AM - Post#2144792    
    In response to 62BillT

Some additional info from another site:

"It's really a restorer's numbers game on WCFBs; some are worth $25 and some are worth $1000, depending on what they're from. Unfortunately, the I.D. tag is often long gone, and you have to rely on clues like choke and throttle arm style, as well as casting numbers on the main body and air horn for identification".

Some of what Jon has also stated above.

Bill
Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
smithd7 
Senior Member
Posts: 528

Loc: Coburg,Oregon,U.S.A.
Reg: 11-07-01
10-08-11 09:13 AM - Post#2145109    
    In response to 62BillT

Thanks Bill,I'll give it a try.



 
carbking 
Senior Member
Posts: 1208
carbking
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 06-14-03
10-09-11 05:41 AM - Post#2145426    
    In response to 62BillT

The problem with trying to identify the WCFB's from casting numbers is that there is no good reference list of casting numbers (at least I have not seen one).

Carter produced 213 different type WCFB carburetors.

A few well-meaning individuals have compiled some lists that they have taken from maybe half a dozen different carburetors.

However the raised "casting" number is an internal Carter number for a casting "blank" (a casting prior to machining). Each casting may be machined in many ways to make up different part numbers. SOME of the castings will have the actual part number stamped in the casting. While the part numbers are unique, the casting numbers are not unique.

So while one can correctly state what the casting numbers would be for a specific tagged carburetor (as the lists SHOULD state); one CANNOT state that a carburetor with these castings IS a specific tagged carburetor.

Too bad that it isn't this easy.

Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

The most expensive carburetor you will ever buy.....is the incorrect one you attempt to modify!

If you truly believe "one size fits all", trying walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!


 
62BillT 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4981
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
10-09-11 09:46 AM - Post#2145520    
    In response to carbking

Jon,

Appreciate the additional info.

I wonder why Carter just didn't stamp the WCFB, like they did on the AFB and AVS?

Bill
Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
carbking 
Senior Member
Posts: 1208
carbking
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 06-14-03
10-09-11 02:47 PM - Post#2145615    
    In response to 62BillT

  • 62BillT Said:
Jon,

Appreciate the additional info.

I wonder why Carter just didn't stamp the WCFB, like they did on the AFB and AVS?

Bill



Bill - I don't know; but remember not nearly all AFB's were stamped. Many Cadillac and Pontiac were NOT stamped. It wasn't until the 1968 model year that virtually all carburetors were stamped. This because the carburetor was/is considered a portion of the smog emission system (federal smog began with 1968) and the items had to be easy to identify.

And many of the WCFB's have a stamped "code" on the throttle body. Unfortunately, even in factory literature, I have never seen a list of the codes.

Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

The most expensive carburetor you will ever buy.....is the incorrect one you attempt to modify!

If you truly believe "one size fits all", trying walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 11038
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-10-11 08:30 AM - Post#2145838    
    In response to carbking

Jon, what do you tell someone who has a WCFB and they want a kit for it, but it doesn't have a tag? Do you make up a sort of generic kit for them? Or can you go pretty much by the metering rod numbers?
1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
carbking 
Senior Member
Posts: 1208
carbking
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 06-14-03
10-10-11 03:44 PM - Post#2145974    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
Jon, what do you tell someone who has a WCFB and they want a kit for it, but it doesn't have a tag? Do you make up a sort of generic kit for them? Or can you go pretty much by the metering rod numbers?



Robert - there are a number of questions we ask. We start with the metering rod numbers, and then ask other questions going from there. The customer should have the carburetor, both a Phillips and a straight screwdriver, a wire brush, a pencil eraser, a good light, a magnifying glass, and most importantly, a pair of young eyes!

With some 30 different gasket combinations, 80 different accelerator pumps, and maybe 50 different fuel valves, not to mention jets, springs, screws, etc. which are in our kits; NO, we do not try for generic kits. We will identify down to 3 or 4 possible numbers.

But sometimes in the process, we determine the carburetor really is not suitable for the customer's needs. No point in spending money for a kit to repair a carburetor that has no chance of working on the engine.

Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

The most expensive carburetor you will ever buy.....is the incorrect one you attempt to modify!

If you truly believe "one size fits all", trying walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!


 
rrausch 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 11038
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-11-11 02:54 PM - Post#2146316    
    In response to carbking

After I posted that I had a feeling "generic" was the wrong word to use--I know your reputation Jon, and I know you don't sell generic kits. But with my 65 year old brain, it was the only word I could come up with at the time.
1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
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