Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!
Silver
Gold ***Platinum***
Carl1962 (2)briski1971 dfwwingnut CowboyTrukr (3)sz0k30 (6)
Suburbazine (2)Gunk(7)markl350 (6)roseyintxCutlass442 (10)Rager
Chevyfan60 (10)JohnE (12)cnbell (11)Todd M (11)savina64
LRH (3)61ohboy66conv55_FEVER george88gta (10)BillOrton39
68 Bel-AirNitroholic (10)
warpwr (8)Lynn63 (5)
Jim.Biron (7)
1956chevy (2)
BMF-1955
Classic Performance Products
Ciadella Interiors American Auto Wire Art Morrison.com
Hellwig Products Inc Performance Rod & Custom
Exile® Battery Keeper™ 6/12 volt charger w/ LED battery monitor
Impala Bob's Bob's Chevy Trucks Bob's Chevelle Parts Bob's Classic Chevy

  >> Switch to Mobile Version <<

Recent Hot Topics
Current Quote
"It only took me a day to realize i got really lucky finding the site and taking the time to sign up!"
~ New Member
Recent Topics
WIN / WIN

Use this to search for parts on Ebay
A portion of your purchase will come back to the site.
Username Post: Building a torque monster 350        (Topic#268475)
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
08-30-11 02:57 PM - Post#2131945    

Howdy guys. I am coming here looking for help. I want to build a beasty little 350. Mainly for use in truck pulls around here called 'Local Yokal' pulls. The ruck is a K10, getting a 8 lug swap up front and a 3/4 rear end in the back. I am going to do the truck up to be very streetable and a great sled puller. I am not looking for full pull but I want to be pulling just as good as the BB guys. Now break me in easy here guys I am a FORD guy ll this is just a fun little side project. Also IDK if it is possible but I want a bad censored sounding idle. But if you guys would mind me giving me some ideas for my setup, I would appreciate it.

 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 21624
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-30-11 04:36 PM - Post#2132003    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

Welcome to the site. I'm moving your engine post to the performance section. The Performance section users will offer tons of information to build a torque monster. Torque and power are based on how much you want to drain your bank account.

Post another topic on drivetrain options and suggestions.
'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'96 GMC Jimmy LS


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 15987
grumpyvette
Age: 66
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
08-30-11 04:50 PM - Post#2132009    
    In response to gchemist

the only reasonable way to make a 350 sbc outperform a big block 454 -572 big block with easily 100 or more cubic inches of displacement is if you use a supercharger or something like turbos or nitrous
yes you can build a 450-500hp small block, but in truck pulls a decent big block can have more than 600-800ft lbs of torque, your not going to get a sbc 350 to beat that without a power adder like a supercharger
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"


Edited by grumpyvette on 08-30-11 04:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
08-30-11 06:19 PM - Post#2132054    
    In response to grumpyvette

Very sorry Gchemist, and I appreciate you moving it for me. And its a street class. So alot of the BB Ford and Chevy guys are running stock engines. I know the Ford guys are cause I know each and every one of them and I know there engines. As for a power adder I thought about a centrifugal supercharger, but thats something I can add down the road. I have Desktop Dyno which is good for most things, so I get a idea of how my application will work and I find a Comp Cams thumpr cam (600 part number), a good Dual plane intake (Or some single plane) Intake running 1.6 intake rockers and 1.5 exhaust rockers, and 650 or so CFM carb. I get a max TQ of like 425 with max HP being around 380. Which I dont think is bad, but I want your guys opinions. The truck is going to driven ont he road, and some medium duty 4X4 use (Pull the tractor out when it get stuck, steep driveways in winter, etc) and Sled Pulling. So all suggestions I am open too. Now I want to add its a 4spd SM465, and from what I been told and from reading its hard to find a stroker kit that will allow me to run a manual tranny.

THANKS GUYS!

 
Vaughn 
"12th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 14658

Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Reg: 08-08-04
08-30-11 06:29 PM - Post#2132057    
    In response to grumpyvette

IF you want a torque monster, you are swapping in the wrong motor.

If you want a cheap junkyard motor that has a lot of torque - stock - then swap in a Cadillac 472-500. This will produce the torque (550-600 ft lbs) you are looking for without spending a lot of money. Use a conversion plate to swap the motor in place of the chevy bolt pattern at the trans, you will also have to build motor mounts for it.

There are lots of these motors in the junkyard that are still in good running condition (don't get stuck on the 500, the 472 is just as good and are much more plentiful). If you can't find a Cadillac, you can also look for a buick or pontiac 455, these have fairly good torque also.

The Cadillac weighs about the same as a small block (about 50 lbs more) when installed. It also gets about the same gas mileage as the small block chevy does.

You can get a cam for a lopey idle, if that is what you want. Edelbrock carries an aluminum intake for this motor also.

 
dcairns 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1790
dcairns
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
08-30-11 06:51 PM - Post#2132067    
    In response to Vaughn

You can bore and stroke a 350 to a 383. That will help some with the displacement disadvantage.
- Dave
1964 Impala 4-door sedan

_________
/ --------------- \
_/ /___________\ \_
/_________|_________\
|OOO ___________ OOO|
\______|====|______/
|_|------------------|_|




 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
08-30-11 07:27 PM - Post#2132081    
    In response to dcairns

I was told to look for one of the old caddy motors but where I live finding one of those is like me finding gold bricks in my garage, dont happen. I have thought about making it a 383, but like I stated I am under the impression its hard to find stroker kits that will allow you to use your manual trans. I want to find a 396, I think it would be fun and interesting in a truck.

 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 21624
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-30-11 07:36 PM - Post#2132087    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

I vote Caddy!!
http://www.500cid.com/

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'96 GMC Jimmy LS


 
busterrm 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1051
busterrm
Loc: Wichita Falls, Tx
Reg: 08-31-10
08-31-11 06:07 AM - Post#2132183    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

  • CowboyCadillac Said:
I was told to look for one of the old caddy motors but where I live finding one of those is like me finding gold bricks in my garage, dont happen. I have thought about making it a 383, but like I stated I am under the impression its hard to find stroker kits that will allow you to use your manual trans. I want to find a 396, I think it would be fun and interesting in a truck.


My opinion is to go with a stroker, building a stroker for a manual tranny is not a hard thing to do. Just as building one for auto, you just have to plan all the components, cam, heads, ignition, intake, carburetion, and having a good tune will give you a strong torque monster.
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!

1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2008 Harley Davidson XL1200 Sportster


 
55 Shaker 
Member
Posts: 1158
55 Shaker
Age: 64
Loc: north central IL.
Reg: 03-13-06
08-31-11 07:51 AM - Post#2132213    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

The only replacement for cubic inches is "RECTANGULAR DOLLAR$$$$$"
The older I get, the more dangerous, I am !!!!


 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
08-31-11 01:34 PM - Post#2132294    
    In response to 55 Shaker

Shaker that was priceless. And as for a stroker, I may. I am mainly looing for cam suggestions and such.

 
dcairns 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1790
dcairns
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
08-31-11 02:07 PM - Post#2132305    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

You might want to invest in the book
"How to Build Big-Inch Chevy Small Blocks" by Graham Hansen.

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Big-Inch-Chevy- Blocks-...

The possibilities of boring and stroking small blocks is explored as well as aftermarket blocks that can get you up to 454 cubic inches in a 'small block'. Of course all that gets expensive But I think you will find the 'recipes' in the back of the book interesting. They have specs and dyno results of some varied builds. Some built for street use, torque monster, high rpm horsepower, etc
- Dave
1964 Impala 4-door sedan

_________
/ --------------- \
_/ /___________\ \_
/_________|_________\
|OOO ___________ OOO|
\______|====|______/
|_|------------------|_|




 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
08-31-11 06:16 PM - Post#2132360    
    In response to dcairns

I had remembered seeing that book and I am going to go to the library tomorrow (Which is right down from me shop) and see if they have it, and the book about rebuilding/modifying Quadrajets.

 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2550

Reg: 04-15-05
08-31-11 06:43 PM - Post#2132368    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

Unfortunately, for the mundane tow truck engines like the 350, the ONLY way to make torque is to go with a 400 crank in that engine, creating the 383 through 388 size. Anything else just isn't going to work as well as the additional stroke.

 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
08-31-11 07:35 PM - Post#2132387    
    In response to IgnitionMan

  • IgnitionMan Said:
Unfortunately, for the mundane tow truck engines like the 350, the ONLY way to make torque is to go with a 400 crank in that engine, creating the 383 through 388 size. Anything else just isn't going to work as well as the additional stroke.



I have heard about this but it was never explained out. Just a 400 crank with 350 rods and pistons? Or whats the combination. Cause I want to build this engine out of stock parts.

 
busterrm 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1051
busterrm
Loc: Wichita Falls, Tx
Reg: 08-31-10
09-01-11 07:55 PM - Post#2132781    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

  • CowboyCadillac Said:
  • IgnitionMan Said:
Unfortunately, for the mundane tow truck engines like the 350, the ONLY way to make torque is to go with a 400 crank in that engine, creating the 383 through 388 size. Anything else just isn't going to work as well as the additional stroke.



I have heard about this but it was never explained out. Just a 400 crank with 350 rods and pistons? Or whats the combination. Cause I want to build this engine out of stock parts.


If you build a stroker, you will have to buy pistons with the 383 compression heighth. Stock 350 is 1.56, for a 383 it is 1.42. That is if you use 5.7 rods. That would be the only thing not OEM parts. But like said before, there is no replacement for cubic inches.
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!

1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2008 Harley Davidson XL1200 Sportster


 
fritz1990 
Senior Member
Posts: 6389
fritz1990
Age: 52
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
09-02-11 05:40 AM - Post#2132854    
    In response to busterrm

You can build a 383 with 400 crank and the stock 400 rods (5.565 length) and use stock 350 pistons.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


 
busterrm 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1051
busterrm
Loc: Wichita Falls, Tx
Reg: 08-31-10
09-02-11 06:15 PM - Post#2133074    
    In response to fritz1990

  • fritz1990 Said:
You can build a 383 with 400 crank and the stock 400 rods (5.565 length) and use stock 350 pistons.

Regards, Jeff


Sorry about that man, I am not a SBC 400 guru. I didn't know that 400 used that rod. I just did the math, and Jeff is exactly right, that will give you the stock deck clearance of 25.
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!

1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2008 Harley Davidson XL1200 Sportster


Edited by busterrm on 09-02-11 06:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
09-03-11 09:53 AM - Post#2133258    
    In response to busterrm

So what exactly is all the machining I would need to do to be able to run a 400 crank and rods with 30 over 350 pistons? Just wondering cause I want to gather parts as soon as I can so I can build this engine up nicely.

 
fritz1990 
Senior Member
Posts: 6389
fritz1990
Age: 52
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
09-03-11 11:32 AM - Post#2133287    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

Been a long time since I done a 383 but the rod bolt nuts will hit the cam so some clearancing is needed on them. I think a few hit the pan rail also. Not a big deal to do just time consuming. Not sure if any hit the piston skirts but need to look here also. Turn it over real slooooooooooooow and gentle. Only need about .040 clearance on everything which is about the thickness of a larger wire tie.

Put 1 rod and piston in a hole and turn it over and use a wire tie for clearance. Grind carefully where needed and proceed to the next cylinder. Make sure the oil pump you are going to use is in place when you get to the back sets of rods.

Have to reclean everything after your done.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


Edited by fritz1990 on 09-03-11 11:33 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
09-03-11 01:10 PM - Post#2133304    
    In response to fritz1990

  • fritz1990 Said:
Been a long time since I done a 383 but the rod bolt nuts will hit the cam so some clearancing is needed on them. I think a few hit the pan rail also. Not a big deal to do just time consuming. Not sure if any hit the piston skirts but need to look here also. Turn it over real slooooooooooooow and gentle. Only need about .040 clearance on everything which is about the thickness of a larger wire tie.

Put 1 rod and piston in a hole and turn it over and use a wire tie for clearance. Grind carefully where needed and proceed to the next cylinder. Make sure the oil pump you are going to use is in place when you get to the back sets of rods.

Have to reclean everything after your done.

Regards, Jeff



I want to ask about the rod bolts for clearing the cam, could you show me a picture for what I am shooting for? Also would I be able to get away with using a bur to do all my clearance work? And I got a question. I have read on a few other forums where guys have used ProComp aaluminum heads, they buy them bare then put there own valves and springs and such in them, and not have any problems (They also get the ported and such which I can do myself) But has anyone on here done it or is there a thread I could read aboyt peoples experience dong what I mentioned? And I want to thank you guys a bunch!

 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 15987
grumpyvette
Age: 66
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
09-03-11 05:18 PM - Post#2133376    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?...

read thru these threads and sub links
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"


 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
09-04-11 08:42 AM - Post#2133558    
    In response to grumpyvette

Thanks Grumpy but there broken.... So can't read them lol

 
busterrm 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1051
busterrm
Loc: Wichita Falls, Tx
Reg: 08-31-10
09-04-11 09:46 AM - Post#2133577    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

  • CowboyCadillac Said:
So what exactly is all the machining I would need to do to be able to run a 400 crank and rods with 30 over 350 pistons? Just wondering cause I want to gather parts as soon as I can so I can build this engine up nicely.


If you get a 400 crank, you'll have to have the mains turned down to 350 mains ( 400=2.65, 350=2.45), make sure its not one of the 68 350s that had 2.3 mains. For the most part 350s are 2.45. Have the rod journals checked and resized to true the up. Also have the entire crank checked for straightness. Then last have it balanced as close as possible, but with a 400 crank you'll have to run a 400 balancer and flexplate(flywheel).
==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!

1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2008 Harley Davidson XL1200 Sportster


 
CowboyCadillac 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 08-30-11
09-04-11 06:10 PM - Post#2133714    
    In response to busterrm

I know they make a weight things you bolt on with your flywheel so you can runt he lighter 350 Flywheel on a 400. Anyways. I really appreciate all your guys help, and I hope to keep you guys informed.

 
dcairns 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1790
dcairns
Loc: Orange CA
Reg: 11-07-03
09-05-11 04:42 PM - Post#2134119    
    In response to CowboyCadillac

I don't think anybody uses 400 cranks anymore, they are too scarce. There are whole kits made to do up a 383, cranks pistons, rods, etc. Do a google search on "383 stroker kit". Some come setup to be internally balanced so you don't need the counterbalanced harmonic balancer and flex plate. But even with a 'balanced' kit, your machinist will need to balance things. Just less to do with a kit that is close to balanced already.

383ci Chevy Small BLock Engine Build

From Chevy 350 to Ground-Pounding 383 Stroker
How to Prep the Block, Which Parts You Need, and Why a Stroker


383 Stroker FAQ

- Dave
1964 Impala 4-door sedan

_________
/ --------------- \
_/ /___________\ \_
/_________|_________\
|OOO ___________ OOO|
\______|====|______/
|_|------------------|_|




 
fritz1990 
Senior Member
Posts: 6389
fritz1990
Age: 52
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
09-05-11 07:20 PM - Post#2134190    
    In response to dcairns

Last 383 I built was using a 400 crank as there were no kits for it back then.

As said use a kit and save yourself some money and hassle, and do go with the internal balance set up.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


 
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

15457 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 1.08 seconds.   Total Queries: 25   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 02:57 PM
Top