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Username Post: Edelbrock 1406 Carb install on 327        (Topic#261969)
classiccream59 
Senior Member
Posts: 357
classiccream59
Reg: 09-02-04
04-26-11 04:57 PM - Post#2082356    

I am installing a 1406 Edelbrock Carburetor in a 1962 Chevy impala 327 with cast iron powerglide.

It had a Carter 4 barrel before.

The transmission has a line that comes up and inserted into the back of the the Carter originally.

Is it the same for the edelbrock?
There is a hole in the back of the Edelbrock that is larger than the one from the Carter.

Do I get a fitting to reduce the size of the hole ?

Also on the distributor there is a vacuum hose that needs to go somewhere.

Does it run to the front of the carburetor?

If so, which side?

And lastly, do I need to plug the large center port in the front?


The car has no power brakes or any other power option.

Thanks!


 
Ross_S 
Senior Member
Posts: 409
Ross_S
Age: 73
Loc: Pahrump, NV
Reg: 07-05-02
04-26-11 06:03 PM - Post#2082411    
    In response to classiccream59

The vacuum line from the transmission must be connected to the back of the carb or to the manifold in order for the trans to shift properly.. There are fittings available that will go into the back of the carb for the trans line to connect to. (Yeah, a dangling participle)

The dist hose goes to the drivers side front of the carb...

 
dbradley 
Contributor
Posts: 838
dbradley
Loc: Sapulpa, OK
Reg: 11-15-09
04-26-11 06:12 PM - Post#2082416    
    In response to Ross_S

And ALL other ports need a plug or cap on them.
Dave Bradley
62 Belair 496 TKO600
33 3W Master Coupe
06 C6 coupe 6spd


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2713

Reg: 04-15-05
04-26-11 06:50 PM - Post#2082444    
    In response to classiccream59

"The dist hose goes to the drivers side front of the carb... "

ONLY IF THE VACUUM ADVANCE HAS HAD THE RUBBER TRAVEL LIMITER STOP INSTALLED OVER THE PULL PIN, AND IS THE CORRECT VACUUM ADVANCE FOR THAT PARTICULAR ENGINE.

No limiter rubber, too much timing.

NOT yelling, just being emphatic.

 
greg_moreira 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3264

Reg: 10-06-03
04-26-11 07:06 PM - Post#2082455    
    In response to IgnitionMan

The way I prefer to set them up is to put a "T" in the intake manifold. Run the trans vacuum hose and power brake booster(if you had power brakes) off of the T.

Then, I hook the PCV off of the back of the carb(that big fitting).

Some people just use breathers on both valve covers, and Ive done the same too, but I notice cleaner oil when I have a working PCV in the system to help draw some of those fumes out that could contaminate oil.

I dont like to put the PCV in the manifold fitting, because that manifold fitting is usually in one particular runner, or at least in an area where its closer to one or two runners than the rest. So...that single runner/small group of runners has a tendancy to digest the majority of the fumes by themselves.

When its plumbed to the back of the carb, anything being drawn through the PCV is at least centered in the middle of the manifold(through the carb) and has a better chance of being evenly dispensed.



 
63bob 
Senior Member
Posts: 411
63bob
Loc: WA
Reg: 02-02-01
04-26-11 09:01 PM - Post#2082516    
    In response to IgnitionMan

IgnitionMan
Can you explain further. I have just started a new engine in a 63 impala with a SB 377 and a HEI dist. I timed it with the vachume hose to the drivers side port on the Eldelbrock 1406 pluged at 10 degrees at idle. When I hook the hose back up the timing mark jumps way up. The engine is not as responsive as I thought it would be. I dont know what stops you are refering to are? 63bob
63 Impala SS Convert 4spd, 3:70 Posi, 377ci-AFR180 Heads-Comp 268H-6"rods-10.3:1
Currently: Started engine 04-15-11, after 14 years on the Streets Summer of 2011


 
greg_moreira 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3264

Reg: 10-06-03
04-26-11 09:09 PM - Post#2082518    
    In response to 63bob

Most performance builds like a good bit of initial. With a build such as yours, Id be bare minimum at 12, but Id also try 14 and 16 initial.

What is your total timing?

Not all, but a good few HEI distributors have a pretty short curve. With your current 10 degrees....You might not have much total with your HEI if it has a short curve.

Anways....back to the point. You have your mechanical timing, of which Id like to see at least 12 degrees timing at idle, or more in most cases for a performance build. 34 to 38 is often a good figure for total timing. Your build with those modern chambers probably works well on the lower side of that range.

When you add in vacuum advance, obviously the timing will increase. Often....it increases too much because the timing figure built into that can is based off of a stock engine that doesnt really use a higher performance mechanical advance curve and higher initial timing settings.

IMan is talking about modifying the vacuum advance canister itself in order to limit how much advance it adds. This will allow you to continue to add in more initial advance(mechanical) until its nice and responsible, but not end up with too much timing once vacuum advance is factored in.

Search for some of his posts. He has quite a few good posts on this website concerning specifically how to modify it properly. It is not anything complicated, and looking at your combo with over 10:1 compression, and a strong cam(but nothing radical), I think it will be beneficial for you to make these mods.

It will allow you to dial in a performance advance curve without ending up with too much additional timing from the vac advance.

Edited by greg_moreira on 04-26-11 09:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2713

Reg: 04-15-05
04-26-11 10:00 PM - Post#2082535    
    In response to 63bob

There are more mechanical curve combos for the large cap HEI than everyone thinks.

The combo I would use for the 327 setup in the original post is the tried and true 375 center/41 weights from the ZZ series crate engines. This will give you 22 crankshaft degrees of mechanical advance curve. Add that to the 12/14 initial, and the total timing becomes 34/36, right in the ball park for that engine.

As far as the vacuum advance goes, the pass side vacuum source IS THE WRONG SOURCE, NO MATTER WHO SAYS DIFFERENT. But, to use the correct port on the driver side, you MUST stop down the number of degrees the vacuum advance gives. This can be done to the correct vacuum advance with a rubber tubing stop slipped over the pull pin of the advance, to allow .110 of pin travel. If another vacuum advance is used, then, a different stop should be made to stop the travel at the .110 inch specification. This will give you 10 crankshaft degrees of vacuum advance, and when applied with the correct full manifold vacuum port, idle timing will be the vacuum advance's 10 degrees, added to the 12/14 initial, for 22/24 degrees of timing, just right.

I know all the "he's ADVERTISING on the boards" whiners will come out of the woodwork for my doing this, but, if you send me an e/mail from a real address, I will send you, free of charge and no strings, pictures of the various methods of stop that can be used to limit the vacuum advance.

The best way to do it is to obtain a Crane adjustable vacuum advance, and mount the stop plate as I outline in the pics, and use the 3 sets of mechanical advance springs to set the rate of mechanical advance. The Crane p/n for the large coil in cap HEI is 99600-1.

The pictures can be obtained at this e/mail address: info@davessmallbodyheis.com Just specify you want the vacuum advance pics for the ZZ distributors, and I wills end them to you.

I have posted this info numerous times on this web board, and, still, nobody seems to search for it.

Edited by IgnitionMan on 04-26-11 10:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
80cut350chevy 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 65
80cut350chevy
Age: 26
Loc: springfield, mo
Reg: 01-30-11
04-26-11 10:25 PM - Post#2082545    
    In response to classiccream59

back hole is used for power brakes, front pass side is vacuum advance port, big center is pcv, and the last one is full manifold for ur trans.
1980 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. 350 chevy, 305 heads(junk), comp cams mutha thumpr cam, 22-2800 stall TH350, 3.73 posi.


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2713

Reg: 04-15-05
04-27-11 01:11 PM - Post#2082787    
    In response to 80cut350chevy

ONCE AGAIN, NO, NO, NO, PASS SIDE ISN'T FOR DISTRIBUTOR, driver side is.

Once agaIn, NOT yelling, but, being emphatic with the CORRECT information.

 
80cut350chevy 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 65
80cut350chevy
Age: 26
Loc: springfield, mo
Reg: 01-30-11
04-27-11 02:49 PM - Post#2082827    
    In response to IgnitionMan

Link looks like either to me.

1980 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. 350 chevy, 305 heads(junk), comp cams mutha thumpr cam, 22-2800 stall TH350, 3.73 posi.


 
greg_moreira 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3264

Reg: 10-06-03
04-27-11 04:57 PM - Post#2082892    
    In response to 80cut350chevy

Never use the "timed" port(sometimes referred to as ported). Use the "manifold" port(also called full manifold). They both say they are for the distributor vac advance but believe me you wanna use the one on the right(per the way its displayed in that picture). Right side of the picture is driver side of the carb.

Some carbs have slightly different layouts. the main thing to be concerned with is making sure its hooked up to manifold vac(and not ported or timed)



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2713

Reg: 04-15-05
04-27-11 07:01 PM - Post#2082977    
    In response to 80cut350chevy

As I said, from many, many YEARS of hands on experience, and having worked for GM in the Duntov shops, and, Holley, PORTED vacuum sourcing for the vacuum advance is only top be used in engines that have a functioning EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve in place.

Obviously, early small blocks, including the 327 NEVER had an EGR valve in place on their inlet manifolds, and, I doubt seriously tht someone building an early engine would have the complete lack of common sense to actually fit an EGR valve to their engine.

Driver side of the carb.

 
80cut350chevy 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 65
80cut350chevy
Age: 26
Loc: springfield, mo
Reg: 01-30-11
04-27-11 08:59 PM - Post#2083024    
    In response to IgnitionMan

So on my 650 dp I shouldn't use the port for the vacuum advance? I should run it on a full vacuum? That makes no sense, who would put egr on a race motor?
1980 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. 350 chevy, 305 heads(junk), comp cams mutha thumpr cam, 22-2800 stall TH350, 3.73 posi.


 
63bob 
Senior Member
Posts: 411
63bob
Loc: WA
Reg: 02-02-01
04-27-11 09:12 PM - Post#2083027    
    In response to IgnitionMan

I just sent an email to the address you gave me it the pior post. Thank you 63bob
63 Impala SS Convert 4spd, 3:70 Posi, 377ci-AFR180 Heads-Comp 268H-6"rods-10.3:1
Currently: Started engine 04-15-11, after 14 years on the Streets Summer of 2011


 
FleetsideLarry 
Member
Posts: 579
FleetsideLarry
Age: 69
Loc: Shellman Bluff, Coastal G...
Reg: 01-08-03
04-28-11 05:17 AM - Post#2083103    
    In response to 80cut350chevy

  • 80cut350chevy Said:
So on my 650 dp I shouldn't use the port for the vacuum advance? I should run it on a full vacuum? That makes no sense, who would put egr on a race motor?



I think you misunderstood Dave's comment. Yes, you should be running full manifold vacuum to your vacuum advance. The "ported" source on the carb is the one above the primary butterflies which is for EGR-equipped vehicles, which he, indeed, is saying no one in their right mind would do (retro-fit EGR, that is).

Some carbs have both a "ported" vacuum source and a full-vacuum source. Off-hand, I don't know if a DP has a "ported" source. I have a couple laying around, I'll go look in a minute.
Larry


Edited by FleetsideLarry on 04-28-11 05:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
models916 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3065

Age: 63
Loc: Addison, IL
Reg: 05-28-10
04-28-11 06:01 AM - Post#2083128    
    In response to FleetsideLarry

Who would put vacuum advance on a race motor? If the throttle is open, you have lost the advance. You don't want that advance under load anyway. It's for cruising and you know you don't put a race motor in a cruiser.

 
greg_moreira 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3264

Reg: 10-06-03
04-28-11 06:16 AM - Post#2083133    
    In response to models916

the definition of "race motor" is rather broad.

Plenty of 10 second cars running around on pump gas and cruising the streets regularly. This is the definition of a race motor if there ever was one.

My stuff tends to be more radical than a lot of people, mostly because my budget isnt big enough to allow me to build huge cube big blocks.

The 500 inch variety is my favorite platform to work on. You can produce huge power and be drivable. But again...sadly the budget doesnt let me build these for myself anytime I want.

So...production big blocks are where Im at with my own projects, and I dont see an issue pushing the envelope in a street engine.

Anything that you could call "high performance" can and will benefit in both drivability and milage with a properly tuned vacuum advance run off of the correct manifold vac source.

This is one of the ways you get a race motor to operate in street clothes.



 
greg_moreira 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 3264

Reg: 10-06-03
04-28-11 07:01 AM - Post#2083141    
    In response to 80cut350chevy

  • 80cut350chevy Said:
So on my 650 dp I shouldn't use the port for the vacuum advance? I should run it on a full vacuum? That makes no sense, who would put egr on a race motor?



Yes you should run it on full manifold if you dont have the emissions equipment and this is a higher performance build. You do not want it run off of a ported source.

Here is how it works. lean mixtures burn slow. rich mixtures burn fast. You want the amount of timing lead to correspond to the burn rate.

At idle, or at a light cruise where the butterflies are barely cracked open...you "should" be on the leaner side of the spectrum. There is no reason to dial the carb super rich in these areas because the engine isnt demanding tons of fuel. Leaner is perfectly acceptable for idle and light cruise.

Because of the lean mixture in these areas, you have a slower burn. Because of the slower burn, you NEED more ignition timing lead. You have to start the fire sooner to make up for the slower burn rate.

Of the two vacuum sources....which one provides the most vac at idle and light cruise? Thats right. Manifold vac. Manifold vacuum will be high at idle, and a very light cruise. Manifold vacuum will add in additional timing just when you need it.

When you step on the gas pedal harder, now the carb should enrich. Once enriched...the burn rate speeds up. At this point its good to have some timing drop off. Luckily...when you step on the gas pedal harder and open the butterflies more....manifold vac drops. Consequently, so would your timing(just when you want it to) if it were properly hooked to manifold vac.

If you dont have any of the emissions equip that rely on a ported source for an emmisions era engine/tune... hook to manifold vac for any performance engine.

 
80cut350chevy 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 65
80cut350chevy
Age: 26
Loc: springfield, mo
Reg: 01-30-11
04-28-11 08:24 AM - Post#2083167    
    In response to greg_moreira

hmm. all ths time ive been running it on the supposedly timed port on the holley metering block, guess ill move it to the manifold port and see what happens. learn somethin new every day
1980 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. 350 chevy, 305 heads(junk), comp cams mutha thumpr cam, 22-2800 stall TH350, 3.73 posi.


 
FleetsideLarry 
Member
Posts: 579
FleetsideLarry
Age: 69
Loc: Shellman Bluff, Coastal G...
Reg: 01-08-03
04-28-11 08:36 AM - Post#2083173    
    In response to 80cut350chevy



bottom is full manifold, I assume upper is "ported" (or timed). You'll probably have have to adjust your carb idle settings.
Larry


 
80cut350chevy 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 65
80cut350chevy
Age: 26
Loc: springfield, mo
Reg: 01-30-11
04-28-11 10:14 AM - Post#2083208    
    In response to FleetsideLarry

yeah i was running it off the upper, and my trans off the bottom, so i guess ill splice into it
1980 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. 350 chevy, 305 heads(junk), comp cams mutha thumpr cam, 22-2800 stall TH350, 3.73 posi.


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2713

Reg: 04-15-05
04-28-11 06:08 PM - Post#2083392    
    In response to 80cut350chevy

Why don't people read the archives first? It has been posted, way, way too many times, that when you run full manifold vacuum, THE CORRECT VACUUM SOURCE F0R A VACUUM ADVANCE, you also MUST restrict, or "stop down" the number of degrees of vacuum advance as well. There have also been billions of posts, with pictures, of just how to do this, and how much, That is why there are archives on these sites.

And, of course, IF the engine is set up for strictly racing, then, there would also be NO common sense in using a vacuum advance, either.

However, it sure seems this info needs to be posted over, and over, and over, and...over again.

Edited by IgnitionMan on 04-28-11 06:09 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
80cut350chevy 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 65
80cut350chevy
Age: 26
Loc: springfield, mo
Reg: 01-30-11
04-29-11 05:26 AM - Post#2083568    
    In response to IgnitionMan

archives? wheres that at?
1980 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. 350 chevy, 305 heads(junk), comp cams mutha thumpr cam, 22-2800 stall TH350, 3.73 posi.


 
FleetsideLarry 
Member
Posts: 579
FleetsideLarry
Age: 69
Loc: Shellman Bluff, Coastal G...
Reg: 01-08-03
04-29-11 05:44 AM - Post#2083575    
    In response to 80cut350chevy

I'm assuming (there I go again) that "archives" is a reference to using the "search" function. When using the search function (which I admit I don't do often enough), I recommend using the "advanced" version as opposed to "quick search"

BTW, Classiccream59, are you OK with your carb swap now?
Larry


Edited by FleetsideLarry on 04-29-11 05:48 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Maxbigblock 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2178
Maxbigblock
Age: 63
Loc: Flint, Michigan.
Reg: 12-16-01
05-03-11 12:03 PM - Post#2085601    
    In response to IgnitionMan

  • IgnitionMan Said:
the total timing becomes 34/36, right in the ball park for that engine.



I would just set the timing at whatever total advance that you want. 36º sounds like a great place to start. Set it, drive it and see how it feels and acts.

Once you know what the total advance is then you can take the vacuum away at idle and find out what that number is. Subtract the number of degrees at idle from the total degrees and you will know what the total curve in degrees is.
Max

I'm from the ONCE great city of Flint, Michigan. The birthplace of General Motors, where A C Spark Plug was formed and headquartered, where the first Corvettes were hand built, and where my 1955 Chevy was made.



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2713

Reg: 04-15-05
05-03-11 07:17 PM - Post#2085749    
    In response to Maxbigblock

Or, another way to set the timing is with a vacuum guage, dead on perfect timing "numbers" come from that, every time.

Swing the davits out, man the lifeboats, put on the SCUBA gear and swim fins, the Titanic is sinking...faster.

YES, it was intended to be very sarcastic.

Edited by IgnitionMan on 05-03-11 07:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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